Some details from B. Sergent, which can clear out or complicate the « tableau » (it's not completely out of topic)
digest of mine :
some authors spoke of « proto-latin » languages in southern Italy ; in fact, not «genuine Proto-Latins but a population layer which has preceded the Sabellians expansion, and seemed a link between Latins and Sicules – this layer had been compared by someones to Illyrians when every tribe of the Roman Illyricum was considered Illyrian when in fact, this great West-Adriatic administrative region was the room of three langages, a Venetic (North-Italic), a South-Italic one and the genuine Illyrian, akin to modern Albanian, to ancient Messapian and to other south-central Balkan rather satem langauges – the Khônes tribe of southern Italy would be linked to Khàones of Epirus, and the Sùbaris town would be linked too to towns of Greece. Seemingly there has been a migration from the Balkans to Italy without link with the Apulian one – tribes pushed later by the Messapian arrival – it’s the confusion between true Illyrians or Messapians and these South-Italic people which pushed someones to speake of Illyrian presence in the Elymes country in Southern Italy and Sicily -
on another side, the palaist- root found in Greece, Epirus, Western Thrace, is not a greek term and some authors think the Phillistines would have been the same thing as the Pelasgians – the Pelasgoi name seems come from the so called Pelasgikon, supposed to have been spelled Pelastikon by the Attic people – an hypothesis is that Pelasgians were in fact *Pelastaî, *Pelaistani, the -g- coming from the attraction of the greek word pélagos, the sea – others think in a change of suffixe, but the temptation is great to link Pelastaî/Pelaistani and Pelasgoi, and to see South-Italics in the Pelaistani, or Phillistins -
Egyptians called ‘the North and Sea People a group of pops (pirates) from Egea ; they mentioned a p-r-[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]š[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]-t[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] people, something like [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Pula[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]šati [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif](Peleset?)[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]; [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]the Bible speaks of the [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Caphtorim[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] island = Creta, source of the Sea People ; ancient Greeks considered [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]some [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Pelasgians were living in Creta and even were dispersed in diverse places of the Mediterranea sea. [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]The [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Pula[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]šati[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]raided Egypt under Ramses the 3th around 1153 BC, along with [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Danuna[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], surely enough Greeks (Danaeans), and the other people who attacked Egypt were the [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Šardana[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] (South Balkans too?),[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] Wa[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]š[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]a[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]š[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]a[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] (somewhere in Greece or Egee ?, more than a close town [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]name [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]or region name there), [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Sakalu[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]š[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]a[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] (Sekeles ?, from Sagalassos, S-W Anatolia?) : ATW, it seems sure the Sea People were from North, close to Greece and W-Anatolia, [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]and Egea of course[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] – [/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]« Pelasgians » were associated with Tyrsenians in sea plundering around Egea, before their dispersion and fading out, leaving their name [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]as generic term for every bad known[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] ancient pop [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]of[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] the surroundings [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif](in Greek at least)[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] – before disappearing complely they took part in Tyrsenian moves and considered as founders of the Agylla town or Caere (= Cerveteri today) in Etruria (Italy)… [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]T[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]he evident ressemblances with the modern names like [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Sardinia[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Sicil[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]y[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] and [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Tyrrhen[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]s[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]points to Italy: were these [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]folks[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] already settled in Italy then ? [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]If Yes, maybe they kept some counters in their regions of origin, more in East ?[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]To come back to the Italics, their coming from Balkans into Italy are confusing : South Italics came first, but did they come from N-E by land, or straight away by sea from Epirus or Albania, like their successors Messapians of Illyrian filiation ? Charles, physical anthropologist, thought a pop he called ‘balkano-mediterraneans’ came by North to Italy from the Central Balkans at Chalcolithic (since 2200 BC?): is there a link ? Or is this too early ?[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Pelastaî (so Phillistins alias Pelasgians?) had rather Italic personal names, and would have been South-Italics too, despite I don’t think they come with this first colonisation by N-E lands ; Hubert said Illyrians cut off Celts from Italics at or a bit before IA (somewhere around the margins of Austria/Croatia/Hungary?) but Sergent thinks furthermore that Illyrians or Illyrianlike tribes (so more akin to Dacians and Thracians) cut off the Balkan South Italics from other Italics akin to Veneti and Dalmatians-Liburnians - [/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]It seems founding out affiliation of pops and languages, despite it’s difficult, is less hard than to follow accurately the moves of the concerned pops. Italy seems to have been a very agitated place as well as Balkans during Antiquity, and if general moves and directions may be expected, it remains there have surely been a lot of smaller moves of every sort on every direction.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Another question : the Y-R1b-U152/L28 in « Archaic Creta » ? When and where from ?[/FONT]