real expert
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@Real expert said-Gaska, seriously? I hope you didn't join the SJW bandwagon, and woke folks who always use shaming tactics to tell people that they are committing a heinous sin by being interested in skin color or phenotype. And please stop bringing up Nordicism that nobody here is promoting.
I don`t know what is the SJW bandwagon, and of course I'm a long way from being a leftist. I don't like the globalists who think that Europe should become a multiracial continent, but I also don't like the debates about who is more blond, taller, more handsome or in which country there are more people with blue eyes. People should travel more and put aside stereotypes and prejudices. The matter of the darkness of the Mycenaeans seems of little importance to me although I recognize that there may be people interested in finding out the phenotype of our European ancestors, but I think that these topics are handled in a polite and respectful way. That's why I joke about the amount of people who say stupid things on the Internet, and how they project their complexes on people who approach these forums in a naive way.
@Real expert said-Besides, I was open to your criticism concerning geneticists and their flawed studies concerning the Steppe theory, and the origin of R1b. In spite not entirely agreeing with your arguments, I didn't outright dismiss your assertion, that R1b originated in Western Europe instead of the Steppe. Plus, I didn't get personal by accusing you of being anti-Eastern European or a Yamanya- hater.
My ideas about the origin of R1b and more specifically R1b-L51> P312 are publicly known, I like to discuss them with people who truly understand genetics and I will have no problem admitting that I have been wrong if someone is able to prove it.
Yamnaya hater? Not especially, but it bothers me the way the Nordicists use this culture to try to impose an absurd and senseless supremacism
@Real expert said-Be more charitable, and let people be interested in whatever they want. We don’t need thought police and a PC brigade on a forum about human genetics and anthropology. Besides, I explained in depth why I find the result a bit odd. I never expected the Mycenaeans, BA Greeks to be blond Northern European or lily-white, but I did expect them to be how they described themselves to be- "intermediate". Anyway, you don’t need to be disrespectful to blond people and their ancestors. And all Europeans whether light or dark share more or less the same distant ancestors. Hence, to me Europeaness is not define by being ghostly white and lacking "color". What do you mean by half black Mycenaeans, there are none in this paper?
Autosomically some Mycenaeans from Lazaridis paper can be modeled with some African blood, and this study has shown that there could be migrants or slaves of African origin in the Balkans BA (hence they have reported a case of Mit-L3). Therefore it does not surprise me that some of them cannot be classified as fair skinned, although I believe that other samples will be, because in the Bronze Age the phenotypes in Europe were as varied as they are today. (I have given the example of two cases from the Bronze Age in Iberia, one blonde in Asturias and other with brown hair in Argar culture)- Then we have people with blue eyes or brown eyes all over Europe both in prehistory and today. That is why I have not given too much importance to swarthy Mycenaeans
Actually, the geneticists asserted, that the Minoans and Mycenaeans lack Levantine or North African/SSA admixture. Some models do show SSA input in Mycenaeans that is not real. On anthrogenica and on Quora people who are versed in genetics and algorithms set this record straight. However, even if there was SSA mix in BA Greeks it would be too small for having a meaningful impact on their complexion.There are plenty of Middle Easterners and North Africans with noticeable SSA admixture that are still intermediate or whitish. Keep in mind, that post-mortem damage causes ancient folks, even Icelandic, Anglo-Saxon samples to score SSA that is actually not real. Furthermore, we know now, that haplogroups alone don't tell the whole story. You can have a typical Eurasian hp, and be basically entirely SSA or vise versa. I'd like to point out that we all should be more tolerant, and understand that people are different, thus with different interests. Some folks are haplogroup enthusiasts, others are more interested in autosomal DNA while others are fascinated by the diverse phenotype of humans. It's all legitimate interest. Asking questions, being curious, examining, and exploring ideas are what make a society advanced. Taboos, and the restriction of interests and thoughts are what keep and kept many cultures backward. Anyway, you can’t dismiss Nordicism that is becoming more and more irrelevant on one hand, but on the other hand overlook how Afrocentrism is on the rise and being pushed. Besides, it's ridiculous to attribute the achievements of BA Greeks to a possible tiny SSA admixture.