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Thread: Ragnar Lothbrok's dynasty may well have belonged to haplogroup R1a-Z284

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    3 members found this post helpful.

    Post Ragnar Lothbrok's dynasty may well have belonged to haplogroup R1a-Z284

    I have checked Ragnar Lothbrok's genealogy to find if he had male line descendants to this day. It would not be surprising considering that he had eight sons and they became powerful rulers of their own. The main issue is that the genealogy is disputed. If enough Y-DNA lines survived, it would be possible to confirm the genealogy by triangulating the various Y-DNA haplotypes.

    Don't be fooled by the series Vikings. Ragnar did not start life as a farmer whose fortune rose after he found a way to navigate to England. He was the son of (semi-legendary) King Sigurd Ring of Denmark and Sweden, himself said to be the son and grandson of other kings of Sweden or Denmark.


    The most promising lead comes from the Uí Ímair dynasty, said to have been founded by Ivar the Boneless (Ragnar's 3rd or 4th son), although according to Geneanet's genealogy it was founded by Halfdan Ragnarsson (known as Hvitserk in the TV series), who were both at some point kings of Dublin. In any case, they had the same Y-DNA. One of this dynasty's cadet branches is Clann Somhairle (Clan Donald and Clan MacDougall), which have already been confirmed to belong to R1a-Z284>L448>YP280 (actually Somerled is said to correspond to YP326 further downstream, but YP280 was formed 1500 years ago and appears to be the marker that separates the Scandinavian branch from the British Isles, so most likely Ragnar Lothbrok's original lineage, if indeed it is his Y-DNA).

    Clan MacLeod is said to have been founded by the younger son of Olaf the Black, King of the Isles, who belonged to the Crovan dynasty. This dynasty is also an offshoot of Uí Ímair and therefore should have the same Y-DNA. Surely enough the MacLeod Y-DNA Project has over 20 members belonging to R1a-Z284>L448, and some are confirmed for the YP280 subclade.

    Other lines may not have known descendants to this day but remain historically important. Knowing Ragnar Lothbrok's Y-DNA would also include the following royal lines.

    Ragnar's eldest son, Björn Ironside inherited the title of King of Sweden and his descendants kept that title until Emund the Old's death circa 1060.

    Ragnar's second or third son Sigurd II "Snake-in-the-Eye", King of Denmark, who was supposedly the father of Harthacnut I of Denmark of the House of Knýtlinga. The most famous member of that house is King Cnut the Great of England, Denmark and Norway.
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  2. #2
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have checked Ragnar Lothbrok's genealogy to find if he had male line descendants to this day. It would not be surprising considering that he had eight sons and they became powerful rulers of their own. The main issue is that the genealogy is disputed. If enough Y-DNA lines survived, it would be possible to confirm the genealogy by triangulating the various Y-DNA haplotypes.

    Don't be fooled by the series Vikings. Ragnar did not start life as a farmer whose fortune rose after he found a way to navigate to England. He was the son of (semi-legendary) King Sigurd Ring of Denmark and Sweden, himself said to be the son and grandson of other kings of Sweden or Denmark.


    The most promising lead comes from the Uí Ímair dynasty, said to have been founded by Ivar the Boneless (Ragnar's 3rd or 4th son), although according to Geneanet's genealogy it was founded by Halfdan Ragnarsson (known as Hvitserk in the TV series), who were both at some point kings of Dublin. In any case, they had the same Y-DNA. One of this dynasty's cadet branches is Clann Somhairle (Clan Donald and Clan MacDougall), which have already been confirmed to belong to R1a-Z284>L448>YP280 (actually Somerled is said to correspond to YP326 further downstream, but YP280 was formed 1500 years ago and appears to be the marker that separates the Scandinavian branch from the British Isles, so most likely Ragnar Lothbrok's original lineage, if indeed it is his Y-DNA).

    Clan MacLeod is said to have been founded by the younger son of Olaf the Black, King of the Isles, who belonged to the Crovan dynasty. This dynasty is also an offshoot of Uí Ímair and therefore should have the same Y-DNA. Surely enough the MacLeod Y-DNA Project has over 20 members belonging to R1a-Z284>L448, and some are confirmed for the YP280 subclade.

    Other lines may not have known descendants to this day but remain historically important. Knowing Ragnar Lothbrok's Y-DNA would also include the following royal lines.

    Ragnar's eldest son, Björn Ironside inherited the title of King of Sweden and his descendants kept that title until Emund the Old's death circa 1060.

    Ragnar's second or third son Sigurd II "Snake-in-the-Eye", King of Denmark, who was supposedly the father of Harthacnut I of Denmark of the House of Knýtlinga. The most famous member of that house is King Cnut the Great of England, Denmark and Norway.
    The lines sucess in the last 1300 years is plastered all over the yfull tree as noticable in the relatively recent diversification.

    Makes one think, who was Lothar for some of the other lines that mirror this in the Iron Age and Bronze Age, or even deeper. Probably those Lothars are lost in history, with yfull the only proof of their existence.
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    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have checked Ragnar Lothbrok's genealogy to find if he had male line descendants to this day. It would not be surprising considering that he had eight sons and they became powerful rulers of their own. The main issue is that the genealogy is disputed. If enough Y-DNA lines survived, it would be possible to confirm the genealogy by triangulating the various Y-DNA haplotypes.

    Don't be fooled by the series Vikings. Ragnar did not start life as a farmer whose fortune rose after he found a way to navigate to England. He was the son of (semi-legendary) King Sigurd Ring of Denmark and Sweden, himself said to be the son and grandson of other kings of Sweden or Denmark.


    The most promising lead comes from the Uí Ímair dynasty, said to have been founded by Ivar the Boneless (Ragnar's 3rd or 4th son), although according to Geneanet's genealogy it was founded by Halfdan Ragnarsson (known as Hvitserk in the TV series), who were both at some point kings of Dublin. In any case, they had the same Y-DNA. One of this dynasty's cadet branches is Clann Somhairle (Clan Donald and Clan MacDougall), which have already been confirmed to belong to R1a-Z284>L448>YP280 (actually Somerled is said to correspond to YP326 further downstream, but YP280 was formed 1500 years ago and appears to be the marker that separates the Scandinavian branch from the British Isles, so most likely Ragnar Lothbrok's original lineage, if indeed it is his Y-DNA).

    Clan MacLeod is said to have been founded by the younger son of Olaf the Black, King of the Isles, who belonged to the Crovan dynasty. This dynasty is also an offshoot of Uí Ímair and therefore should have the same Y-DNA. Surely enough the MacLeod Y-DNA Project has over 20 members belonging to R1a-Z284>L448, and some are confirmed for the YP280 subclade.

    Other lines may not have known descendants to this day but remain historically important. Knowing Ragnar Lothbrok's Y-DNA would also include the following royal lines.

    Ragnar's eldest son, Björn Ironside inherited the title of King of Sweden and his descendants kept that title until Emund the Old's death circa 1060.

    Ragnar's second or third son Sigurd II "Snake-in-the-Eye", King of Denmark, who was supposedly the father of Harthacnut I of Denmark of the House of Knýtlinga. The most famous member of that house is King Cnut the Great of England, Denmark and Norway.

    What about Rollo ...........was that Ragnar brother, cousin or nothing .....................if brother , his line is in normandy
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-Z282

  4. #4
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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  5. #5
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    … maybe unrelated, … I have Rollo relatives in my town (2 miles from Lecce), and I had unrelated Rollo classmates.



    https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-co...i/ROLLO/PUGLIA

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    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    … maybe unrelated, … I have Rollo relatives in my town (2 miles from Lecce), and I had unrelated Rollo classmates.



    https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-co...i/ROLLO/PUGLIA
    Did they take the same boat as the Foggia viking?


    Edit: My sad attempt at a joke, linking two separate ancient ethnicity links between Italy and Scandinavia really did fall flat huh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    … maybe unrelated, … I have Rollo relatives in my town (2 miles from Lecce), and I had unrelated Rollo classmates.



    https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-co...i/ROLLO/PUGLIA

    norman invasion from sicliy to albania was stopped by Byzantine lands forces and their allies the venetian fleet ................maybe the normans decides apulia is a re-supply place... a bit of R and R

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    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
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    Ragnar / Ragno (Spider) … symbol of Salento, … there you go :) lol

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Another thing the series got wrong. Rollo was not Ragnar's brother or even relative. In fact that Rollo (v. 860-930) who became Count of Rouen was born over 100 years after Ragnar Lothbrok (755-845).

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Nice! So Z284 may be strongly associated with Viking voyages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Another thing the series got wrong. Rollo was not Ragnar's brother or even relative. In fact that Rollo (v. 860-930) who became Count of Rouen was born over 100 years after Ragnar Lothbrok (755-845).
    They did it intentionally, for cinematic reasons. To add more depth to Ragnar's story.

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Nice! So Z284 may be strongly associated with Viking voyages.
    There is no doubt about that. There is 23% of R1a in Iceland (much more than in Sweden or Denmark and about the same as Norway) and most of it is Z284.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Nice! So Z284 may be strongly associated with Viking voyages.
    Most definitively.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-00747-z

    Sent from my SM-T865 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have checked Ragnar Lothbrok's genealogy to find if he had male line descendants to this day. It would not be surprising considering that he had eight sons and they became powerful rulers of their own. The main issue is that the genealogy is disputed. If enough Y-DNA lines survived, it would be possible to confirm the genealogy by triangulating the various Y-DNA haplotypes.

    Don't be fooled by the series Vikings. Ragnar did not start life as a farmer whose fortune rose after he found a way to navigate to England. He was the son of (semi-legendary) King Sigurd Ring of Denmark and Sweden, himself said to be the son and grandson of other kings of Sweden or Denmark.


    The most promising lead comes from the Uí Ímair dynasty, said to have been founded by Ivar the Boneless (Ragnar's 3rd or 4th son), although according to Geneanet's genealogy it was founded by Halfdan Ragnarsson (known as Hvitserk in the TV series), who were both at some point kings of Dublin. In any case, they had the same Y-DNA. One of this dynasty's cadet branches is Clann Somhairle (Clan Donald and Clan MacDougall), which have already been confirmed to belong to R1a-Z284>L448>YP280 (actually Somerled is said to correspond to YP326 further downstream, but YP280 was formed 1500 years ago and appears to be the marker that separates the Scandinavian branch from the British Isles, so most likely Ragnar Lothbrok's original lineage, if indeed it is his Y-DNA).

    Clan MacLeod is said to have been founded by the younger son of Olaf the Black, King of the Isles, who belonged to the Crovan dynasty. This dynasty is also an offshoot of Uí Ímair and therefore should have the same Y-DNA. Surely enough the MacLeod Y-DNA Project has over 20 members belonging to R1a-Z284>L448, and some are confirmed for the YP280 subclade.

    Other lines may not have known descendants to this day but remain historically important. Knowing Ragnar Lothbrok's Y-DNA would also include the following royal lines.

    Ragnar's eldest son, Björn Ironside inherited the title of King of Sweden and his descendants kept that title until Emund the Old's death circa 1060.

    Ragnar's second or third son Sigurd II "Snake-in-the-Eye", King of Denmark, who was supposedly the father of Harthacnut I of Denmark of the House of Knýtlinga. The most famous member of that house is King Cnut the Great of England, Denmark and Norway.
    https://www.geni.com/discussions/160108

    Clann Somerled is maternal descendants of Dynasty of Ivar.

    ''
    More recently, historian Alex Woolf has pointed out the conflicting information found in the different versions of the pedigree, and drawn attention to their faulty chronology. Instead he argues that these pedigrees may derive from an original claim to the descent of Somerled from the Crovan dynasty and the Uí Ímair, subsequently obscured by alterations made to link them to the Scottish and Irish foundation legends.[2] In any case, the Clann Somhairle based their claim to the Isles on their descent from Somerled's wife, Ragnhildr, the daughter of king Amlaíb Derg, and Woolf accepts that the male-line Crovan descent claim underlying the pedigrees may have arisen as a replacement for this female-line derivation from the family. Sir Iain Moncreiffe attempted to reconstruct a male line descent from Somerled back to Echmarcach mac Ragnaill, King of the Isles,[3] but this has received little attention.''

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clann_Somhairle

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