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Thread: Mobility in the Iron Age Central Mediterranean

  1. #1
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    Iron age central mediterranean

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...03.13.483276v1

    Hannah M Moots et al.
    doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2022.03.13.483276
    This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review

    Abstract
    The Iron Age saw the expansion of Phoenician and Greek colonies across the Mediterranean and the rise of Carthage as the major maritime power of the region. These events were facilitated by the ease of long-distance travel following major advances in seafaring. We know from the archaeological record that trade goods and materials were moving across great distances in unprecedented quantities, but it is unclear how these patterns correlate with human mobility. To investigate population mobility and interactions directly, we sequenced the genomes of 30 ancient individuals from Carthaginian and Etruscan port cities around the central Mediterranean, in Tunisia, Sardinia, and central Italy. At all three locations, there is a meaningful contribution of autochthonous populations (from Bronze Age North Africa, Sardinia, and Italy, respectively), as well as highly heterogeneous ancestry including many individuals with ancestry from other parts of the Mediterranean region. These results highlight both the role of autochthonous populations and the extreme interconnectedness of populations in the Iron Age Mediterranean. By studying these trans-Mediterranean neighbors together, we explore the complex interplay between local continuity and mobility that shaped the Iron Age societies of the central Mediterranean.

    Characterizing the Genetic Heterogeneity at Kerkouane At Kerkouane, a Carthaginian town on the Cap Bon peninsula in Tunisia (see extended description in Materials), we observe a highly heterogeneous population, spanning across the PCA space in Fig. 3 from modern Mozabite populations to modern Sicilian populations, consisting of three primary genetic clusters.
    One of the genetic groups we identified includes four individuals who have genetic continuity with preceding Maghrebi neolithic farmers, suggesting that these individuals represent an autochthonous North African population (Fig. 4). One individual, R11778, can be modeled in qpAdm with 100% Morocco Late Neolithic farmer ancestry, while three individuals, R11746, R11755, R11790, can be modeled predominantly with this component, along with the addition of 15 - 20% Steppe-related ancestry. A second cluster, visible in PCA (Fig. 3 and Fig. S5) and identified in qpWave (Fig. 5), contains seven individuals who are genetically similar to Bronze Sicilian and central Italian populations, as well as some individuals from the Hellenistic Iberian Greek colony of Emp ries (14, 23). For R11759, who projects near modern Mozabite and Moroccan populations in PCA space, there were no working distal qpAdm models with the original set of 5 distal source populations (Fig. 5). We replaced Morocco Late Neolithic with Morocco Early Neolithic farmers and a hunter-gatherer individual from Ethiopia from ~4500 BP (24), both of which produced working models. Using competition modeling (where possible sources are rotated to the outgroup), the best model uses ~70% Morocco Early Neolithic ancestry and ~30% Anatolia Neolithic (Fig. 4, Fig. S6). When compared to other ancient individuals using qpWave analysis (Fig. 5), this individual forms a clade with ancient Canary Island inhabitants thought to be representative of the original founding population (25). The Canary Islands were originally settled in the 1st millennium BCE by a population genetically ancestral to today’s Amazigh populations of Saharan
    Africa (26).

    Discussion
    ...
    These results indicate that autochthonous North African populations contributed substantially to the genetic makeup of Kerkouane. The contribution of autochthonous North African populations in
    Carthaginian history is obscured by the use of terms like “Western Phoenicians”, and even to an extent, “Punic”, in the literature to refer to Carthaginians, as it implies a primarily colonial population and diminishes indigenous involvement in the Carthaginian Empire. As a result, the role of autochthonous populations has been largely overlooked in studies of Carthage and its empire. Genetic approaches are well suited to examine such assumptions, and here we show that North African populations contributed substantially to the genetic makeup of Carthaginian cities. The high number of individuals with Italian and Greek-like ancestry may be due to the proximity of Kerkouane to Magna Graecia, as well as key trans-Mediterranean sailing routes passing by Cap Bon (1, 28). Yet, surprisingly, we did not detect individuals with large amounts of Levantine ancestry at Kerkouane. Given the roots of Carthage and its territories as Phoenician colonies, we had anticipated we would see individuals with ancestry similar to Phoenician individuals, such as those published in (12). One possible explanation is that the colonial expansion of Phoenician city-states at the start of the Iron Age did not involve large amounts of population mobility, and may have been based on trade relationships rather than occupation. Alternatively, this could potentially be due to differential burial practices (although Phoenician burial practices were thought to have shifted from cremations to interments in the central and western Mediterranean around 650 BCE (29), predating the individuals in the study), or to a disruption in connections between Carthaginian territories and the Eastern Mediterranean, after the fall of the Phoenician city-states to Babylon.

    ...

    The Iron Age appears to be a key period for the formation of the current genetic structure of North Africa. Previous research suggests present-day central and western North African populations can be modeled as having four primary ancestry components: a local/autochthonous Maghrebi component derived from paleolithic hunter-gatherer populations in the region (20, 31, 32); a Near Eastern component thought to have been introduced with Arab rule of the region in the Medieval period (26); a sub-Saharan African component that was introduced in the last 5,000 years (16, 20); and a European component originally thought to have arrived due to historical population movements. While many papers have suggested the Near Eastern and European components resulted from recent historical movements, such as Arab rule in Medieval North Africa and trans-Mediterranean trade in the last 500 years, we see evidence for these
    components being present in North Africa in the Iron Age, around 2,500 years ago. Fregel et al. 2018 show the European component is, at least partially, linked to the farming expansion and is similar to Anatolian and early European farmers (20). Additionally, we show that both Near Eastern and sub-Saharan African components were present in North Africa earlier than previously thought, reflecting the ongoing interconnectedness of North Africa to these regions for millennia (20, 33–35). The sub-Saharan ancestry we observe at Kerkouane may result either from direct contact or indirect contact through the nomadic populations of the Sahara. These nomadic groups, known to the Greeks as Numidians, are thought to be ancestral to Amazigh populations living in North Africa today. Trans-Saharan trade routes, made easier by a greener, less arid Sahara than today, had connected the communities of North Africa with their sub-Saharan counterparts since the Bronze Age (36, 37). Herodotus noted the coexistence of sedentary peoples and nomadic peoples in the land of the "libou" in the 5th century BCE (38). In addition to overland networks, these connections to sub-Saharan Africa also occurred by sea. Herodotus described Phoenician trade routes as extended far beyond the Mediterranean to the British Isles and West Africa via the Atlantic coast and even that a Phoenician and Egyptian expedition had circumnavigated Africa the previous century (1, 39). The Iron Age may have
    been a key period for gene flow across the Sahara as well.

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    A lot of Sicilians and Greeks going to North Africa.

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    "In The Making of the Middle Sea, Cyprian Broodbank notes, “[w]ithout denying the likelihood of variousconstellations of social, cultural and other identities, early Mediterranean history instead comprises anever-shifting kaleidoscope of webs of people and practices changing within and between places.” Usingancient DNA we can begin to examine these webs in the Central Mediterranean during the Iron Age.People buried at the same port towns and sharing the material culture of burial, often sharing the sametombs, have diverse and geographically distant ancestries (Table S1). Non-local ancestry doesn’t seem tohave made individuals any less Carthaginian or any less Etruscan in their funerary celebrations. Perhaps,instead, this points us to a defining feature of these societies, a cultural one, and that is their embrace ofthose with roots at home as well as elsewhere."

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    I do not understand how conclusions can be drawn from port city necropolises, since it is a given that they were frequented by foreigners because of trade.

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    So, no Phoenicians in Carthaginian cities. If it's because they switched away from cremation later than previously thought, fine. If not, then I guess there goes that theory that the Carthaginians brought all this Levantine ancestry to places like Sicily and Iberia.

    I know I keep doing this, but I did tell you so. I said over and over and over again that the Phoenicians were NOT colonizers, but were instead traders, and that there weren't enough of them to populate all these Carthaginian cities even before the downfall of their cities in today's Lebanon, and that I highly doubted much "Levantine" blood was spread through what were essentially trading marts.

    The Carthaginians were essentially North Africans of their time, apparently, but even then the majority of their FORCES, the men on the ground, were mercenaries from all over the known world. Included among them were my own Ligures and many Iberians especially after the Carthaginians established colonies there. Once Hannibal was in Italy many of the tribes north of the Po joined in.

    Does anyone else find her apparent surprise at the make-up of the North Africans of the time rather surprising? What else would one expect but an admixture of local HG derived ancestry, Levantine farmers (admixed, of course, with Anatolian farmers), who brought farming, and then "perhaps" some "black" African.

    I have to read the paper carefully, but I highly doubt there were enough Sicilian and Greek settlers to contribute to the "European" ancestry in modern North Africans. Much more likely to just be EEF, or maybe a bit owing to the Barbary Pirates and their slave trade.

    What always surprises me in any paper written by Moots (and affiliated people) is that she fails to grasp that the genomes of some people in port cities does not necessarily have anything to do with the genetic history of the people of the broader region.

    We have a perfectly good example in the French and Italian and Spanish settlements in North Africa during colonial days. There were many farms owned and run by French and Spanish and Italian settlers. Libya, which had been taken over by Italy, shows to this day many traces of the influence of Italians. That doesn't mean there's recent Italian genetic influence in Libyans.

    This is mostly about French settlement:
    https://www.encyclopedia.com/history...opean-presence

    This is about Italian Libya:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italia...d%20in%20Libya.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So, no Phoenicians in Carthaginian cities. If it's because they switched away from cremation later than previously thought, fine. If not, then I guess there goes that theory that the Carthaginians brought all this Levantine ancestry to places like Sicily and Iberia.

    I know I keep doing this, but I did tell you so. I said over and over and over again that the Phoenicians were NOT colonizers, but were instead traders, and that there weren't enough of them to populate all these Carthaginian cities even before the downfall of their cities in today's Lebanon, and that I highly doubted much "Levantine" blood was spread through what were essentially trading marts.

    The Carthaginians were essentially North Africans of their time, apparently, but even then the majority of their FORCES, the men on the ground, were mercenaries from all over the known world. Included among them were my own Ligures and many Iberians especially after the Carthaginians established colonies there. Once Hannibal was in Italy many of the tribes north of the Po joined in.

    Does anyone else find her apparent surprise at the make-up of the North Africans of the time rather surprising? What else would one expect but an admixture of local HG derived ancestry, Levantine farmers (admixed, of course, with Anatolian farmers), who brought farming, and then "perhaps" some "black" African.

    I have to read the paper carefully, but I highly doubt there were enough Sicilian and Greek settlers to contribute to the "European" ancestry in modern North Africans. Much more likely to just be EEF, or maybe a bit owing to the Barbary Pirates and their slave trade.

    What always surprises me in any paper written by Moots (and affiliated people) is that she fails to grasp that the genomes of some people in port cities does not necessarily have anything to do with the genetic history of the people of the broader region.

    We have a perfectly good example in the French and Italian and Spanish settlements in North Africa during colonial days. There were many farms owned and run by French and Spanish and Italian settlers. Libya, which had been taken over by Italy, shows to this day many traces of the influence of Italians. That doesn't mean there's recent Italian genetic influence in Libyans.

    This is mostly about French settlement:
    https://www.encyclopedia.com/history...opean-presence

    This is about Italian Libya:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italia...d%20in%20Libya.
    In case I wasn't sufficiently clear, Port Cities are not going to necessarily tell you the whole story of the genetic history of a people, whether it's a Carthaginian city clinging to the edge of North Africa or a port city in Sardinia or Etruria.

    In that regard, I highly doubt that the inhabitants of a Carthaginian port city, for example, tell us much about the inhabitants of North Africa once you get away from the ports.

    I have no idea why this isn't obvious to these so called population geneticists.

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    This I don't understand at all:

    " three individuals, R11746, R11755, R11790, can be modeledpredominantly with this component[Morocco Late Neolithic farmer], along with the addition of 15 - 20% Steppe-related ancestry."

    I also don't know why the authors spend so much time talking about SSA ancestry in the Iron Age North Africans of the time when the single "best" candidate can be best modeled as "s ~70% Morocco Early Neolithicancestry and ~30% Anatolia Neolithic". It seems to me that reinforces the fact that the 20% SSA in modern North Africans did indeed come mostly with the Arab Slave trade, as is supported by the dating algorithms we have.

    Anyone else confused by the fact that she traces the supposed "African" which entered the Sardinian genome 96 generations ago to the Carthaginians when not one of the Carthaginian samples is best modeled with any SSA? In fact, only one sample even has Morocco Early Neolithic. Plus, she's basing that on the Moorjani et al paper which Dienekes destroyed years ago. Instead of using that, why didn't she apply the newest dating algorithm from the Reich Lab (I posted a thread on it). Would have been nice if she had mentioned the percent of "African" or even "North African" like ancestry in the modern Sardinians. They're still the closest modern population to pre-Indo European Neolithic Europe in case she forgot.

    You know what, I'm tired to reading idiotic papers. I'm done with this one.

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    People are concluding to much influence ( ethnic or not ) to Carthage .....a city state that existed in history for less than 700 years and its influence in Italy was very minimal..............even during the 2nd Punic war, the majority of italian "tribes" stood with Rome




    southern Sardinia and western Sicily being the best that the carthage could control
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

    "Fear profits man, nothing"

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    Mobility in the Iron Age Central Mediterranean

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...276v1.full.pdf


    Abstract
    The Iron Age saw the expansion of Phoenician and Greek colonies across the Mediterranean and the rise
    of Carthage as the major maritime power of the region. These events were facilitated by the ease of
    long-distance travel following major advances in seafaring. We know from the archaeological record that
    trade goods and materials were moving across great distances in unprecedented quantities, but it is
    unclear how these patterns correlate with human mobility. To investigate population mobility and
    interactions directly, we sequenced the genomes of 30 ancient individuals from Carthaginian and
    Etruscan port cities around the central Mediterranean, in Tunisia, Sardinia, and central Italy. At all three
    locations, there is a meaningful contribution of autochthonous populations (from Bronze Age North Africa,
    Sardinia, and Italy, respectively), as well as highly heterogeneous ancestry including many individuals
    with ancestry from other parts of the Mediterranean region. These results highlight both the role of
    autochthonous populations and the extreme interconnectedness of populations in the Iron Age
    Mediterranean.

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    someone posted this in anthrogenica
    someone anlayse some of the bam files
    but what about the tunisian remains ?
    hope for some e1b1b1( even e-v65 instead of e-m81 will be fine)


    Last edited by kingjohn; 16-04-22 at 05:26.
    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus
    Ftdna path
    E-M96>CTS9083>P147>P177>M215>M35>Z827>CTS10298>PF196 2>M123>M34>L795>S11835>S12033>S11956>S11168>S10483 >BY96055

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    Buona Pasqua

    Dod. k12b

    Code:
    R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,8.39,0,4.23,0.02,14.92,0,0,1.82,26.08,0.60,43.93,0.02
    R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.43,0,1.33,1.31,45.54,24.78,0,0,5.23,0,20.20,0.17
    R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.72,0,0,0,47.09,27.17,0,0.38,3.98,0.96,16.09,0.61
    R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,5.36,0.92,2.37,0,44.54,35.11,0,0,0.67,0.29,10.47,0.28
    R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.53,0,0.89,0.50,42.32,22.36,0,0.20,6.37,0,23.83,0
    R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,0,0,1.23,0,46.50,22.77,0,0.45,5.62,0,23.36,0.06
    R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,2.99,0.05,0,0.53,50.17,22.59,0,0,5.48,0,17.89,0.30
    R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.60,0,0.51,0.44,47.07,28.51,0,0,3.73,0.34,15.32,0.48
    R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.29,0.37,1.15,0.50,45.66,26.89,0.46,0,5.41,0,17.79,0.48
    R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,0.03,0,48.34,33.89,0,0,3.33,0.03,13.48,0.90
    R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,2.02,0,1.27,0.73,48.52,24.33,0,0,4.65,0,17.94,0.54
    R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,1.58,0.48,0.37,0,51.51,23.78,0,0,5.12,0,16.42,0.73
    R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,1.27,0,51.48,23.67,0,0,6.23,0.38,16.75,0.22
    R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,3.77,0,68.53,9.35,0,0.30,6.72,0,11.32,0
    R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,3.81,0.29,68.29,6.22,0,0,6.29,0,15.10,0
    R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,2.92,0.41,68.58,4.55,0,0,6.97,0,16.43,0.14
    R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,2.93,0,4.71,0,41.35,15.75,0.45,1.66,10.27,0,22.35,0.52
    R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0,0,17.73,0.53,35.75,9.11,0,2.86,11.62,0,21.49,0.91
    R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,1.64,0,3.57,0.84,35.67,10.95,0.36,0.28,13.35,0.18,33.02,0.16
    R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,2.13,0,4.17,0.93,33.91,12.31,0,0,12.53,0.11,33.56,0.36
    R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0,0,14.84,0.06,42.01,6.16,0.32,1.40,14.37,0,20.07,0.77
    R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0.53,0,9.07,0.24,42.62,12.67,1.07,0.86,9.97,0,22.65,0.33

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    Salento: Buona Pasqua mio amico

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    Hi Pax Augusta: Perhaps the you and the moderators can combine the threads since Salento estimated the Dodecad 12B coordinates for some of those samples.

    Cheers, PT

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    I have merged the two threads.
    Check this selection of my best forum topics
    My book selection
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have merged the two threads.
    Perfect, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Buona Pasqua

    Dod. k12b

    Code:
    R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,8.39,0,4.23,0.02,14.92,0,0,1.82,26.08,0.60,43.93,0.02
    R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.43,0,1.33,1.31,45.54,24.78,0,0,5.23,0,20.20,0.17
    R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.72,0,0,0,47.09,27.17,0,0.38,3.98,0.96,16.09,0.61
    R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,5.36,0.92,2.37,0,44.54,35.11,0,0,0.67,0.29,10.47,0.28
    R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.53,0,0.89,0.50,42.32,22.36,0,0.20,6.37,0,23.83,0
    R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,0,0,1.23,0,46.50,22.77,0,0.45,5.62,0,23.36,0.06
    R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,2.99,0.05,0,0.53,50.17,22.59,0,0,5.48,0,17.89,0.30
    R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.60,0,0.51,0.44,47.07,28.51,0,0,3.73,0.34,15.32,0.48
    R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.29,0.37,1.15,0.50,45.66,26.89,0.46,0,5.41,0,17.79,0.48
    R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,0.03,0,48.34,33.89,0,0,3.33,0.03,13.48,0.90
    R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,2.02,0,1.27,0.73,48.52,24.33,0,0,4.65,0,17.94,0.54
    R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,1.58,0.48,0.37,0,51.51,23.78,0,0,5.12,0,16.42,0.73
    R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,1.27,0,51.48,23.67,0,0,6.23,0.38,16.75,0.22
    R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,3.77,0,68.53,9.35,0,0.30,6.72,0,11.32,0
    R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,3.81,0.29,68.29,6.22,0,0,6.29,0,15.10,0
    R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,2.92,0.41,68.58,4.55,0,0,6.97,0,16.43,0.14
    R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,2.93,0,4.71,0,41.35,15.75,0.45,1.66,10.27,0,22.35,0.52
    R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0,0,17.73,0.53,35.75,9.11,0,2.86,11.62,0,21.49,0.91
    R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,1.64,0,3.57,0.84,35.67,10.95,0.36,0.28,13.35,0.18,33.02,0.16
    R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,2.13,0,4.17,0.93,33.91,12.31,0,0,12.53,0.11,33.56,0.36
    R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0,0,14.84,0.06,42.01,6.16,0.32,1.40,14.37,0,20.07,0.77
    R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0.53,0,9.07,0.24,42.62,12.67,1.07,0.86,9.97,0,22.65,0.33
    Excellent work!

  18. #18
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Salento: Thanks for the coordinates. I ran the samples you provided in post 11 along with the 11 Iron Age Romans from Antonio et al 2019, which were included in this sample to compare against the 30 New Iron Age samples in the Moots et al 2022 Pre-Print. I get good distances with R11790 and 11786 both which are modeled as a 2 way admixture between Anatolian Neolithic (EEF) and Iran_Neolithic. Looking over at R437, The Iron Age/Republican Roman who most closely clusters with modern Southern Italians, the only difference between R437 and R11790 and R11786 is the additional Steppe-Yamnaya component in R437.

    Distance to: PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    4.18976133 Mediterranean_C6:R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    6.39831228 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    8.00517957 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    13.23641568 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
    15.15189097 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    16.54641653 North_African_C3:R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
    17.37154570 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    17.40331865 European_C7:R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicu ro
    18.30758040 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    19.89199085 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    20.72008205 European_C7:R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
    22.12337904 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    22.60311483 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    23.17349132 European_C7:R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
    23.21816315 European_C7:R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
    23.78614092 European_C7:R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
    23.89680732 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    25.41911682 European_C7:R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica
    26.19888738 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    26.80170330 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    27.08717224 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    27.54563123 European_C7:R851_Iron_Age_Ardea
    27.67798764 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    28.25671425 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    29.22786855 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano

    Admixtures based on Jovialis Italian models confirming the Aneli et al 2022 findings in the Iron Age Apulian paper. Works very well for these samples. A few takes that I have is that the two Samples that I am closest to are very close to R437 and what I get using the model that Jovialis put together (heavy Minoan component). Seems like these 2 samples represent a similar ancestry to R347 present in Republican Rome and as the paper notes, these individuals were likely from somewhere from Sicily to Greece, although they could just as easy be from Southern Mainland Italy. Hopefully that paper on Iron age Campania that also has Iron Age Sicilian data has samples that can add to this and we can get more Iron Age samples from Calabria, Basilicata, Puglia as well.




    Distance to: R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    5.91613049 Mediterranean_C6:R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    8.00517957 PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    9.32451607 Italian_Campania
    10.54308304 Italian_Calabria
    10.57964083 Italian_Abruzzo
    10.65824563 Italian_Sicily
    11.01665938 Italian_Marche
    11.71823792 Italian_Jews
    12.35986650 Italian_Lazio
    12.91644301 Italian_Apulia
    13.33908543 Italian_Romagna
    15.19217233 Italian_Tuscany
    16.81149904 Italian_Emilia
    17.12205595 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
    17.12755090 Italian_Liguria
    19.70125631 Italian_Lombardy
    20.82659118 Italian_Piedmont
    21.11623072 Italian_Veneto
    22.95273186 Italian_Friuli_VG
    24.67908629 Italian_Trentino
    27.35627350 Italian_Aosta_Valley

    Distance to: R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    4.73838580 Mediterranean_C6:R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    6.39831228 PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    7.40292510 Italian_Campania
    8.51601433 Italian_Abruzzo
    8.65423018 Italian_Sicily
    8.83294402 Italian_Calabria
    9.62394534 Italian_Marche
    10.64856798 Italian_Jews
    10.72051305 Italian_Apulia
    10.78508229 Italian_Lazio
    12.26882635 Italian_Romagna
    14.50903167 Italian_Tuscany
    15.43195062 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
    16.19472754 Italian_Emilia
    16.56617337 Italian_Liguria
    19.23660573 Italian_Lombardy
    20.16450842 Italian_Piedmont
    20.25235048 Italian_Veneto
    21.95018907 Italian_Friuli_VG
    24.00577014 Italian_Trentino
    26.86120995 Italian_Aosta_Valley
    Last edited by Palermo Trapani; 17-04-22 at 20:46. Reason: clarification

  19. #19
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Salento: Thanks for the coordinates. I ran the samples you provided in post 11 along with the 11 Iron Age Romans from Antonio et al 2019, which were included in this sample to compare against the 30 New Iron Age samples in the Moots et al 2022 Pre-Print. I get good distances with R11790 and 11786 both which are modeled as a 2 way admixture between Anatolian Neolithic (EEF) and Iran_Neolithic. Looking over at R437, The Iron Age/Republican Roman who most closely clusters with modern Southern Italians, the only difference between R437 and R11790 and R11786 is the additional Steppe-Yamnaya component in R437.

    Distance to: PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    4.18976133 Mediterranean_C6:R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    6.39831228 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    8.00517957 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    13.23641568 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
    15.15189097 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    16.54641653 North_African_C3:R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
    17.37154570 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    17.40331865 European_C7:R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicu ro
    18.30758040 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    19.89199085 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    20.72008205 European_C7:R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
    22.12337904 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    22.60311483 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    23.17349132 European_C7:R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia
    23.21816315 European_C7:R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima
    23.78614092 European_C7:R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia
    23.89680732 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    25.41911682 European_C7:R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica
    26.19888738 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    26.80170330 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    27.08717224 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    27.54563123 European_C7:R851_Iron_Age_Ardea
    27.67798764 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    28.25671425 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    29.22786855 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano

    Admixtures based on Jovialis Italian models confirming the Aneli et al 2022 findings in the Iron Age Apulian paper. Works very well for these samples. A few takes that I have is that the two Samples that I am closest to are very close to R437 and what I get using the model that Jovialis put together (heavy Minoan component). Seems like these 2 samples represent a similar ancestry to R347 present in Republican Rome and as the paper notes, these individuals were likely from somewhere from Sicily to Greece, although they could just as easy be from Southern Mainland Italy. Hopefully that paper on Iron age Campania that also has Iron Age Sicilian data has samples that can add to this and we can get more Iron Age samples from Calabria, Basilicata, Puglia as well.




    Distance to: R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    5.91613049 Mediterranean_C6:R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    8.00517957 PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    9.32451607 Italian_Campania
    10.54308304 Italian_Calabria
    10.57964083 Italian_Abruzzo
    10.65824563 Italian_Sicily
    11.01665938 Italian_Marche
    11.71823792 Italian_Jews
    12.35986650 Italian_Lazio
    12.91644301 Italian_Apulia
    13.33908543 Italian_Romagna
    15.19217233 Italian_Tuscany
    16.81149904 Italian_Emilia
    17.12205595 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
    17.12755090 Italian_Liguria
    19.70125631 Italian_Lombardy
    20.82659118 Italian_Piedmont
    21.11623072 Italian_Veneto
    22.95273186 Italian_Friuli_VG
    24.67908629 Italian_Trentino
    27.35627350 Italian_Aosta_Valley

    Distance to: R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    4.73838580 Mediterranean_C6:R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    6.39831228 PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY
    7.40292510 Italian_Campania
    8.51601433 Italian_Abruzzo
    8.65423018 Italian_Sicily
    8.83294402 Italian_Calabria
    9.62394534 Italian_Marche
    10.64856798 Italian_Jews
    10.72051305 Italian_Apulia
    10.78508229 Italian_Lazio
    12.26882635 Italian_Romagna
    14.50903167 Italian_Tuscany
    15.43195062 Eastern_Mediterranean_C5:R850_Iron_Age_Ardea
    16.19472754 Italian_Emilia
    16.56617337 Italian_Liguria
    19.23660573 Italian_Lombardy
    20.16450842 Italian_Piedmont
    20.25235048 Italian_Veneto
    21.95018907 Italian_Friuli_VG
    24.00577014 Italian_Trentino
    26.86120995 Italian_Aosta_Valley

    Thanks for running them, I need to check them out when I get a chance.

  20. #20
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Buona Pasqua

    Dod. k12b

    Code:
    R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,8.39,0,4.23,0.02,14.92,0,0,1.82,26.08,0.60,43.93,0.02
    R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.43,0,1.33,1.31,45.54,24.78,0,0,5.23,0,20.20,0.17
    R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.72,0,0,0,47.09,27.17,0,0.38,3.98,0.96,16.09,0.61
    R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,5.36,0.92,2.37,0,44.54,35.11,0,0,0.67,0.29,10.47,0.28
    R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.53,0,0.89,0.50,42.32,22.36,0,0.20,6.37,0,23.83,0
    R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,0,0,1.23,0,46.50,22.77,0,0.45,5.62,0,23.36,0.06
    R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,2.99,0.05,0,0.53,50.17,22.59,0,0,5.48,0,17.89,0.30
    R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,3.60,0,0.51,0.44,47.07,28.51,0,0,3.73,0.34,15.32,0.48
    R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi,1.29,0.37,1.15,0.50,45.66,26.89,0.46,0,5.41,0,17.79,0.48
    R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,0.03,0,48.34,33.89,0,0,3.33,0.03,13.48,0.90
    R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,2.02,0,1.27,0.73,48.52,24.33,0,0,4.65,0,17.94,0.54
    R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,1.58,0.48,0.37,0,51.51,23.78,0,0,5.12,0,16.42,0.73
    R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano,0,0,1.27,0,51.48,23.67,0,0,6.23,0.38,16.75,0.22
    R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,3.77,0,68.53,9.35,0,0.30,6.72,0,11.32,0
    R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,3.81,0.29,68.29,6.22,0,0,6.29,0,15.10,0
    R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia,0,0,2.92,0.41,68.58,4.55,0,0,6.97,0,16.43,0.14
    R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,2.93,0,4.71,0,41.35,15.75,0.45,1.66,10.27,0,22.35,0.52
    R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0,0,17.73,0.53,35.75,9.11,0,2.86,11.62,0,21.49,0.91
    R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,1.64,0,3.57,0.84,35.67,10.95,0.36,0.28,13.35,0.18,33.02,0.16
    R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,2.13,0,4.17,0.93,33.91,12.31,0,0,12.53,0.11,33.56,0.36
    R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0,0,14.84,0.06,42.01,6.16,0.32,1.40,14.37,0,20.07,0.77
    R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene,0.53,0,9.07,0.24,42.62,12.67,1.07,0.86,9.97,0,22.65,0.33
    This is quite interesting. One of the Tarquinia samples comes out close to Parma Beaker, one of the Pian Sultano samples close to Hallstatt, and some close to Eastern Iberia. Also, some of the Tunisian samples are close to Etruscans.

    Here are mine:
    Distance to: Angela
    4.98822614 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    8.33730772 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    8.80632159 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    10.39213645 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    12.28308186 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    13.06251124 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    13.19631009 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    13.54577425 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    14.40266989 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    14.56147657 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    14.96917499 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    15.91062224 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    15.95617749 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    16.18622254 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    21.73726294 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    21.83411093 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    22.03386484 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    23.54925264 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    32.85937614 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    33.35252014 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    33.53697512 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    42.38630085 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi


    Interestingly, my closest by a lot is the sample closest to Etruscans and Croatia Late Bronze Age. The second is a Tunisia sample closest to Armenoi Crete, which if I remember correctly is not Minoan like but has a lot more steppe. Is it the one which was closest to Tuscans?

  21. #21
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This is quite interesting. One of the Tarquinia samples comes out close to Parma Beaker, one of the Pian Sultano samples close to Hallstatt, and some close to Eastern Iberia. Also, some of the Tunisian samples are close to Etruscans.

    Yes, it seems that two samples from Tunisia come a bit closer to the Etruscans, but none join the Etruscan cluster. It is still unclear to me who these samples from Tunisia are, so hopefully the uniparental markers will help with clarity.

    On the other hand, the new samples that are fully Etruscan from Tarquinia fit perfectly with the average of the earlier Etruscan samples.




    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Interestingly, my closest by a lot is the sample closest to Etruscans and Croatia Late Bronze Age. The second is a Tunisia sample closest to Armenoi Crete, which if I remember correctly is not Minoan like but has a lot more steppe. Is it the one which was closest to Tuscans?
    R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene is closest to Corsicans.


  22. #22
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Here is what I get:

    Distance to: Jovialis
    9.80129073 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    11.82969146 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    16.52118942 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    17.39332056 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    19.50456101 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    22.17741870 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    22.47031820 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    23.06667510 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    25.17505114 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    25.48292369 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    26.20699143 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    26.83745517 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    27.07197074 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    28.02424664 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    29.15073927 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    29.21593914 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    30.23949570 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    33.17526790 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    33.22738178 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    44.85474557 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    45.02557718 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    45.91989874 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia

  23. #23
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Distance to: Sardinian
    6.81677343 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    8.91895734 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    13.63968841 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    30.72839078 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    30.85192701 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    30.94738600 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    31.71779784 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    32.86392855 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    33.09170893 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    33.25538302 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    33.76378089 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    35.31029453 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    36.36617659 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    36.58201197 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    36.85173809 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    37.66476072 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    39.31557198 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    39.59445668 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    41.33325659 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    41.37190834 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    45.55981233 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    64.14037496 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi


    Distance to: Sicilian
    5.61280678 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    7.52590858 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    18.73278410 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    19.93198936 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    21.54709493 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    21.87767127 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    24.29732290 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    25.12082801 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    25.34496794 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    27.15013444 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    29.70860650 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    30.16806093 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    30.47511936 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    31.99404788 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    32.42237345 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    32.81244276 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    33.13167819 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    38.23038451 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    39.49597448 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    44.62512633 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    44.81539802 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    46.60855072 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia


    Distance to: S_Italian_Sicilian
    6.39430215 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    7.99139537 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    19.09434209 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    20.71645481 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    21.70504089 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    23.14671899 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    24.82905355 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    25.21027568 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    25.45749202 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    27.42374336 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    29.95011519 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    30.41379950 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    30.60348019 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    32.12422762 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    32.69058580 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    33.00763397 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    33.29261179 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    38.46976475 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    39.70902794 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    44.87153664 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    45.10269172 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    46.88286574 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia


    Distance to: Jovialis
    9.80129073 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    11.82969146 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    16.52118942 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    17.39332056 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    19.50456101 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    22.17741870 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    22.47031820 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    23.06667510 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    25.17505114 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    25.48292369 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    26.20699143 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    26.83745517 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    27.07197074 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    28.02424664 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    29.15073927 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    29.21593914 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    30.23949570 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    33.17526790 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    33.22738178 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    44.85474557 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    45.02557718 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    45.91989874 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia


    Distance to: C_Italian
    7.22925999 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    8.57929484 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    12.44679879 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    12.72101804 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    15.42262624 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    16.70249682 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    18.48966738 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    21.06316453 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    21.38007717 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    21.60702895 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    22.07705823 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    23.06620255 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    23.21355423 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    24.23063144 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    24.33351393 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    24.43638271 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    29.48785682 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    30.87165043 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    33.92278880 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    39.49269679 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    39.62583879 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    40.72321205 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia


    Distance to: TSI30
    6.95435116 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    9.53067154 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    11.30533060 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    12.04425589 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    12.46975541 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    12.88570914 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    13.88310124 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    15.51810555 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    15.86685854 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    16.27083895 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    17.41295495 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    18.60663323 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    18.67022228 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    18.68430625 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    22.46869823 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    23.07820617 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    23.99755821 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    25.69907586 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    35.52664915 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    35.86453401 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    36.33052849 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    39.44228061 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi


    Distance to: Tuscan
    9.02169607 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    10.96163765 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    11.18683601 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    11.51777756 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    13.02511804 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    14.86195478 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    15.15378831 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    17.51303515 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    17.87949664 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    18.22509808 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    19.40376252 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    20.60413065 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    20.62393755 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    20.63464320 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    23.31273901 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    24.07882472 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    25.86611683 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    27.64465771 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    36.82965653 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    37.05130767 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    37.84817169 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    38.04660169 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi


    Distance to: O_Italian
    10.48025763 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    12.85868189 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    12.97860932 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    14.20765991 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    15.48675240 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    15.94055520 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    17.41358378 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    17.85774902 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    19.27068759 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    19.75648754 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    20.20576155 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    20.66034850 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    22.43335240 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    22.49452378 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    23.51679825 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    25.52163396 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    25.70310876 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    26.04925527 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    37.57046579 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    40.99957561 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    41.42935191 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    41.52368120 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia


    Distance to: North_Italian
    2.34151660 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    5.25174257 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    5.40085178 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    7.67152527 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    8.00960049 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    8.15199975 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    9.39996277 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    9.40951646 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    10.53675472 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    10.71322080 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    10.82077169 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    13.95299968 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    16.61808352 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    18.90919353 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    19.20550702 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    19.33735763 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    23.66231392 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    24.30540475 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    30.42107822 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    30.48100228 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    31.24490839 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    47.07880627 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi


    Distance to: N_Italian
    3.12963257 R10343_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    6.87734687 R10338_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    7.90013291 R10344_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    8.69448101 R10363_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    9.66289812 R11104_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    10.04301747 R10340_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    10.49907139 R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    10.71474685 R10359_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    11.06652610 R10361_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    12.87553106 R11105_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    13.26720769 R11107_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    15.41397094 R11791_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    16.77432562 R11102_Italy_bc-Pian_Sultano
    17.92011440 R10342_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi
    19.25161032 R11780_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    19.53630467 R11776_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    24.58722432 R11755_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    24.92741463 R11790_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene
    33.58299123 R11828_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    33.78356405 R11829_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    34.59370463 R11835_Sardinia_bc-Sant_Imbenia
    46.24429370 R10337_Italy_bc-Tarquinia_Monterozzi

  24. #24
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    7,863

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Here is the K8 Model I used for other ancient and modern Italian populations:


  25. #25
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    21,576


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Yes, it seems that two samples from Tunisia come a bit closer to the Etruscans, but none join the Etruscan cluster. It is still unclear to me who these samples from Tunisia are, so hopefully the uniparental markers will help with clarity.

    On the other hand, the new samples that are fully Etruscan from Tarquinia fit perfectly with the average of the earlier Etruscan samples.





    R11749_Tunisia_bc-Kerkouene is closest to Corsicans.

    The Etruscan from Tarquinia labeled R10343 is one of my closest Iron Age matches.

    R11749, which is closest to Armenoi Crete at a distance of 3, is at a distance of 5.7 to Corsica, I'm a distance of 8.3, and North Italian at a distance of 9.4, Liguria 9.46, and TSI at 9.53, so maybe someone from the Balkans?

    PCAs are helpful, but only two dimensions. Two of the Tunisian samples are pretty close to Etruscans, coming in at 3 and 4 approximately.

    Perhaps the presence of "Etruscan like" remains in a Carthaginian port city shouldn't be a surprise, given that the Etruscans and Carthaginians were allies around the 530s B.C. Certainly, Greek like people, perhaps traders etc. shouldn't be a surprise.

    The only surprise is the lack of Levantine like people. Perhaps, as I said, cremation lasted for longer than we were aware, or there were so few of them that they were in the larger cities like Carthage itself. Otherwise, it's hard to fathom the yearly tributes to Tyre before it fell to Babylonia. It's also interesting that the Punic language had such a hold in parts of North Africa, lasting until about 500 A.D. if I remember correctly.

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