Actual Medieval Rurikid DNA - not from modern people who claim descent from Rurik

[torzio]

The veleti tribe , who are the original wends are a slav people......they are the first slav people to arrive in poland, coming in from the upper vistula river area.......upper as in slovakia area

 

[Joey37]

The Veneti were the root of the future West Slavic people. The Goths spread some of their West Baltic R1a into the Mediterranean, as did the Vandals. The idea that the Slavic people magically appeared out of the Pripyat swamps in 500 AD is outdated and wrong.

 

[torzio]

The Veneti were the root of the future West Slavic people. The Goths spread some of their West Baltic R1a into the Mediterranean, as did the Vandals. The idea that the Slavic people magically appeared out of the Pripyat swamps in 500 AD is outdated and wrong.

Veleti are slavs , the most numerous
Veneti/venedi are west-balts , a insignifixant tribe...they eventually became the old-prussian warmian tribe

 

[APO276]

W

Perfectly natural that they have I2-Din. You really are not understanding the way this works. I’m not saying anyone with this line is a Slav, the same as an I1 African American is not an Anglo-Saxon. However the ancestor most probably was.

The problem you’re not understanding about genetics is the TMRCA. Overwhelming majority of I2a1b-Din, probably nearly 100 percent belongs under CTS10228, the complete entirely of which(outside rare occurrences) falls under Y3120 which dates to 200BC. ALL men of this line regardless of identification descend from ONE man only 2200 years ago. The Proto Slavic ethnogenesis was already under way where this line participated and expanded demographically with the Slavic migrations.

These estimates may change though and they have changed in the past too.
Concerning 'paleo-Balkan' lineages you should see the subclades. Even if an haplogroup is 'paleo-Balkan' back migrations are possible.
A 'Greek' lineage returning to Greece as a Goth, Bulgar, Slav,Vlach, Albanian and whatnot is something that could have happened.

 

[Johane Derite]

Venetic people were not slavs or balts. Their language is an isolate branch in between italo-celtic and illyric branch.

 

[kmak]

other rurikid member such as vladimir the great,ivan the teribble has tested?

 

[mihaitzateo]

The most weird thing is that Gleb Svyatoslavovich has 25% South Euro autosomal DNA while his mother was, according to Tomenable, Polish-like, so 100% North Europe and Baltic.
It results that Gleb's father had 40-50% South Euro if Gleb was not adopted.
@Tomenable : how do you explain this?

 

[MOESAN]

It's not sure the southern Veneti language was in between Celtic and Italic, it seems they were rather on the Italic side, the Latino-Faliscan one, and was an archaic form stayed longer in North in proximity of proto-Germanic (according to B. Sergent, early Italic kept in its first stage more ties with proto-Germanic and with proto-Slavic than did Celtic) ; things are not clear at all; I don't exclude first veneti being part of Lusacian culture at Urnfields times (West the Vistula/Wisla), separated from ancestors of Qw- Latins by the coming of Osco-Umbrians (P- Italics) : here I 'd need the help of a knowledged archeologist; it's possible the Germanics applied the name of this ethny to other close neighbours in Poland, a bit further East, among them Balto-Slavic tribes, or proto-Baltic and/or proto-Slavs; when true Veneti left the North to go towards South, under diverse pressions, this name, evolved in Venedi, applied later to the remnant of neighbours, possibly Balts and/or Slavs; this way of unprecise namings is common, Germanics applied the 'walah' terminology to a lot of foreign pops everywhere when at first it qualified a Celtic tribe only! (Welsh, Wallach... even maybe Gaul) - this Venedi can explain the Wend term, applied today to a Slavic group in East-Germany -

 

[torzio]

Venetic people were not slavs or balts. Their language is an isolate branch in between italo-celtic and illyric branch.

Venedi are on the baltic sea and are a west-baltic people,
Briitany veneti are in NW france and are a gaulish people and then you have adriatic veneti.....which are called venetic in BC times......although italians call them Paleo-veneti
Yes they are mixed with histri illyrians , nori illyrians and libiurnian illyrians

 

[torzio]

It's not sure the southern Veneti language was in between Celtic and Italic, it seems they were rather on the Italic side, the Latino-Faliscan one, and was an archaic form stayed longer in North in proximity of proto-Germanic (according to B. Sergent, early Italic kept in its first stage more ties with proto-Germanic and with proto-Slavic than did Celtic) ; things are not clear at all; I don't exclude first veneti being part of Lusacian culture at Urnfields times (West the Vistula/Wisla), separated from ancestors of Qw- Latins by the coming of Osco-Umbrians (P- Italics) : here I 'd need the help of a knowledged archeologist; it's possible the Germanics applied the name of this ethny to other close neighbours in Poland, a bit further East, among them Balto-Slavic tribes, or proto-Baltic and/or proto-Slavs; when true Veneti left the North to go towards South, under diverse pressions, this name, evolved in Venedi, applied later to the remnant of neighbours, possibly Balts and/or Slavs; this way of unprecise namings is common, Germanics applied the 'walah' terminology to a lot of foreign pops everywhere when at first it qualified a Celtic tribe only! (Welsh, Wallach... even maybe Gaul) - this Venedi can explain the Wend term, applied today to a Slavic group in East-Germany -

if you have a more recent paper than this below......let me know
The only issue I have is that the town Oderzo was an shared illyrian/venetic trading town.........it was a place amber was traded , as the illyrians got the amber in modern Vienna and traded in oderzo

https://www.academia.edu/5857512/On...ication_of_Venetic?email_work_card=view-paper

 

[mihaitzateo]

I do not think people from Veneto , Italy have significant East European or NE European or Baltic admixture, that the Slavs brought.

Now back to the thread, that Southern DMA of Gleb is West/East Balkanic ?

 

[MOESAN]

if you have a more recent paper than this below......let me know
The only issue I have is that the town Oderzo was an shared illyrian/venetic trading town.........it was a place amber was traded , as the illyrians got the amber in modern Vienna and traded in oderzo

https://www.academia.edu/5857512/On...ication_of_Venetic?email_work_card=view-paper

Thanks for the link: I had a glance at it, very quickly; it needs more acute reading to weight the diverse ressemblances/differences - ATW you 're right: Sergent's book is of just before the 2000's, yours is of 2012 (seemingly) -

 

[Dibran]

I see an overwhelming number of German , Scandinavian , Italian and Spanish etc. flags here:
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y3120/

Or maybe its carriers among Goths all perished in battle ...

Overwhelming?? Where did you get Spanish?? This is the breakdown not including unknown kits on Y-full. All come from one man in 200BC....

Northern/Western/South Western Europe - Italy(2), Sweden(3), Germany(8), Switzerland(1)

Central/East/North-East/South-East Europe - Russia(25), Poland(22), Ukraine(19), Serbia(12), Bulgaria(10), Bosnia(10), Belarus(9), Croatia(9), Hungary(7), Montenegro(6), Czech(6), Slovak(4), Romania(4), Moldova(3), Lithuania(3), Latvia(2),

Greece(12 - most of which forms an older Greek specific branch shared with E-European Jews)

Also, Y-Full only listed full genome sequenced tests uploaded. There are testers in FTDNA who arent on Y-Full, including YSEQ testers. I2a1b-CTS10228 is overwhelmingly dominated by Slavs.

Even L1029 is more common in west Slavs, Germans, Scandinavians with a wider spread all over europe, even a couple cases in England and you don't see anyone denying its demographic expansion with Slavs. The case is even more obvious with I2a1b.

 

[Dibran]

..............

Dude, just stop. You have been educated, and spoon-fed detail by detail on I2a1b-Din and its Slavic origin. Its earliest ancestor being in western europe during the neolithic doesn't mean they stayed there. Almost 100 percent of I2a1b men today are all Slavs and most of these men descend from one man in 200BC. Beginning to sound like a broken record. On 2 genetics sites, spewing your same nonsense that people who have way more understanding of genetics than you or me have told you already.

I2a1b is big in Romania, we get it. You don't wan't to acknowledge Slavs had a big impact in your land. Don't think anyone falls for your game though. You're willfully ignorant.

 

[Dibran]

These estimates may change though and they have changed in the past too.
Concerning 'paleo-Balkan' lineages you should see the subclades. Even if an haplogroup is 'paleo-Balkan' back migrations are possible.
A 'Greek' lineage returning to Greece as a Goth, Bulgar, Slav,Vlach, Albanian and whatnot is something that could have happened.

Could have sure. These are not one of those cases. The only branch we can say had no participation in Slavic migrations may well be the Greek Isolate branch shared with some East European Jews.

Nearly 100 percent of I2a1b carriers are Slavic, and even the non-Slavs have common ancestors within the last 1500-2000 years. The only Paleo-Balkan lines alive today that are I2, are I2a2a clades minimally found in Albanians, Greeks, and Bulgarians. The Greek cluster could have entered the Balkans earlier with a Proto-Slavic/Balto-Slavic guy that could have arrived with Bastarnae into Macedonia during the time of Phillip.

This is largely specific to mostly Greeks for now. So old Baltic, and Proto-Slavic guys who joined Greek colonies on the black sea coast could have also brought it to Greece.

This isn't the case for the rest of it which matches perfectly with the Slavic migration, even more so than some Balto-Slavic R1a branches. People just aren't comfortable with the idea they don't descend from their paleo-proto-ancestor of their nation. Y-Chromosome is just a fraction of thousands and thousands of Y & X ancestors who contributed generations of genes to us.

My own line is probably Proto-Slavic too. Yet I have a Albanian haplotype/founder effect. Last 1200 years ancestor was most likely Albanian, before that most likely Slavic. So my ancestors participated in the late proto-Albanian/Albanian ethnogenesis and expanded from there. Yet, his ancestor was not Illyrian. Every ethnogenesis involved mixing.

No point in making mental hurdles. Doesn't make anyone special to be descended from this guy or the next. Cool yea, special no. Every man makes himself. I am sure there are plenty pathetic ****** who descend from Kings and great men descended from the poor or down trodden. People cling to the past. Those people never knew or had anything to do with us.

 

[MOESAN]

if you have a more recent paper than this below......let me know
The only issue I have is that the town Oderzo was an shared illyrian/venetic trading town.........it was a place amber was traded , as the illyrians got the amber in modern Vienna and traded in oderzo

https://www.academia.edu/5857512/On...ication_of_Venetic?email_work_card=view-paper

I read it. Interesting. I stay puzzled, sure of nothing.
the paper speaks of the Celtic Veneti of Brittany. What it says is often true, but the explanations of the causes of breton Venetic (Vannetais or Gwenedeg) appearent closeness to old Venetic trends are a bit too quickly made. Gwenedeg is the dialect I speak, and the [dj] to[zh] evolution in it is exceptionnel and purely individual, under French evolution. And French as a whole is closer to modern Slavic phonetic evolutions than ths Breton dialect, you can trust in me. So the continental Celts had some ties with Slavs? Or it's rather a similar substrata influence? Or it is just hazard (I don't like it, it's true).

 

[MOESAN]

"to rely on me", better!
ATW, I'm not sure at all old continental Venetic influence is responsible for Slavics evolution. I doubt.

 

[felipesc500]

The Prince Droutskoy-Sokolinsky, direct paternal descendant from Rurik, had been tested as R1a-Y2613-YP3929. We have 3 possible paternal lines from Rurik, even if he really existed.

 

[kmak]

The Prince Droutskoy-Sokolinsky, direct paternal descendant from Rurik, had been tested as R1a-Y2613-YP3929. We have 3 possible paternal lines from Rurik, even if he really existed.

Original Rurikids have obscure Y-DNA. Its possible that they have R1a, N1c, I2a or I1.

 

[felipesc500]

Original Rurikids have obscure Y-DNA. Its possible that they have R1a, N1c, I2a or I1.

For sure, maybe Rurik never existed like a person, but a bunch of vareguians, that settle in Eastern Slavic area and formed their elites.
Considering the mythological characteristics of Rurik construct.