Alans(with Catacomb burial ritual) from River Don 8-th century 6 had haplogroup G2

Alan said:
To be fair Aberdeen z93 and z283 splits right in Western Asia.
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there is only 400 years difference between the 2 ...insignificant
 
Sile said:
there is only 400 years difference between the 2 ...insignificant
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True but all major subclades meet in the area between Kurdistan, Iran and Balochistan.
 
Alan said:
True but all major subclades meet in the area between Kurdistan, Iran and Balochistan.
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The dividing line is actually further west and north. You can see maps of the two subclades here.

http://thebigone.stanford.edu/papers/Underhill_phylogenetic_March-2014.pdf

Basically, Russia and points west are Z282 and the Stans, Iran, etc. are Z93, although Z282 slants further east as you go north and Z93 slants further west as you go south. The boundary between the two subclades runs through western Kazakhstan but goes further east as you go north and goes further west as you go south. IMO, that north to east and south to west slant can be accounted for by Russian colonization in Siberia and Turkish colonization of the moslem world during historical times.
 
But doesn't exactly the same study come to the conclusion that every major subclade of R1a* is found in Western Asia and the most diversity is in the Region between Balochistan, Iran and Kurdistan?
 
Alan said:
But doesn't exactly the same study come to the conclusion that every major subclade of R1a* is found in Western Asia and the most diversity is in the Region between Balochistan, Iran and Kurdistan?
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According to Karafet, R-M207 of which there is ~10% has origins in indonesia/malaysia ...........is this a "major" marker?
 
Sile said:
According to Karafet, R-M207 of which there is ~10% has origins in indonesia/malaysia ...........is this a "major" marker?
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R-m207 is found in South_Central and West Asia as well if I am not mistaken. I have heard that Haplogroup P* has probably it's origin in Southeast Asia or East India but I haven't heard of any theory that R* originated there too.
 
There are new results for Alanian mtdna from Verkhne-Saltovskiy burials.
U* U2 U5 D K and H.
 
Alan said:
Also Ossetians have some R1b and I too.
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YDNA I, namely I2c among Ossetians is most probably of Armenian (and consequently Balkan) origin. According to Tagauri clan legends to which the tested person belongs, their forefather was an exiled Armenian nobleman/royal. Armenian chronicles also validate this story.
 
Kardu said:
YDNA I, namely I2c among Ossetians is most probably of Armenian (and consequently Balkan) origin. According to Tagauri clan legends to which the tested person belongs, their forefather was an exiled Armenian nobleman/royal. Armenian chronicles also validate this story.
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There is no I2c in the Balkan.
Ossetian I is I2a not c.
 
gyms said:
There is no I2c in the Balkan.
Ossetian I is I2a not c.
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There isn't much I2c in the Balkans nowadays, but I imagine there was once at least a reasonable amount of at least I2c PF3881- (the branch that is present in West Asia). This seems to be reflected by its ~5% levels in Crete. (Although admittedly STRs from Crete are in short supply, and it's possible that theirs could reflect a founder effect, possibly from a period as late as the Republic of Venice period--hm.)
 
sparkey said:
There isn't much I2c in the Balkans nowadays, but I imagine there was once at least a reasonable amount of at least I2c PF3881- (the branch that is present in West Asia). This seems to be reflected by its ~5% levels in Crete. (Although admittedly STRs from Crete are in short supply, and it's possible that theirs could reflect a founder effect, possibly from a period as late as the Republic of Venice period--hm.)
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How much I2c is in the Balkans? Is there anny I2a and I2c aDNA from Balkans?You are obsessed with Balkans.Is the 10% I2a in Kara Nogays from Balkans?
 
gyms said:
How much I2c is in the Balkans?
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I2c ranges from 0% to the 1-5% range (usually closer to 1%) depending on the population in the Balkans. I tried to map it out before here, although admittedly that project could use an update, and I was never able to completely separate I2c from I2b-L415.

gyms said:
Is there anny I2a and I2c aDNA from Balkans?
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No, there's not any ancient Y-DNA from the Balkans to speak of really.

gyms said:
You are obsessed with Balkans.
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Not particularly. I like slivovitz though, yum.

gyms said:
Is the 10% I2a in Kara Nogays from Balkans?
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I would assume that it has a common source with Russian I2a, but I haven't studied it closely.
 
sparkey said:
No, there's not any ancient Y-DNA from the Balkans to speak of really.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/9995363812/permalink/10152463355698813/
Neolithic Starčevo(Balkanian Neolithic) have G2a G2a2b I2a1 and F*
Andrew Millard:
"Roy the slides were moving pretty quickly so my notes are incomplete. I don't think there were Mesolithic Gs. For the 7 Starcevo samples I only got as far as noting F* G2a G2a2b I2a1 before things moved on. There were others. There is a paper in press in Proceedings of the British Academy vol.198."

+

From Andrew Millard
International Society of Genetic Genealogy (ISOGG)
43 mins · Edited ·
I'm at the International Symposium on Biomolecular Archaeology and I thought some here would like summaries of the human DNA papers (abstracts with author details are available athttps://ipna.unibas.ch/archgen/isba14/) .
Maria Spyrou presented on the 8th-10th century AD site of Venosa in southern Italy. They recovered 22 full mitogenomes representing 17 haplogroups. This is remarkably diverse, but not statistically different from modern populations from Europe, N Africa & the Near East except Algeria, Basque & Saudi Arabia. Conclusion: today's European mitochondrial diversity dates back to at least the 8th century.
Anna Szécsényi-Nagy presented data from 9 Y chromosomal samples (25 SNPs defiing major haplogroups) and 84 mitochondrial HVS-I DNA profiles from Mesolithic, Neolithic Starčevo and LBK sites (7-6th millennium BC) from Hungary and Croatia. For mtDNA the Neolithic haplogroup frequencies differ from northern European hunter gather-populations but they are similar in the spread to the northern, slightly later Linear Band Keramik sites, with slight differences in frequencies. The Y-chromosome data showed a high frequency of haplogroup G, and closest affinity to Caucasus & Sardinians in modern populations.
Helena Malmstrom reported mtDNA HVS-I sequences from Funnel Beaker (TRB) & Pitted Ware Cultures. The PWC hunter-gatheres differ in haplogroup frequency from farmers but are similar to Mesolithic huntergatherers elsewhere in Europe. The TRB farmers are similar to central European LBK farmers, but both differ from Iberian farmers. Conclusion: migration is part of Neolithisation
Karonla Kirsanow presented on the origins of depigmented skin and eyes in Europeans using samples from the Upper Palaeolithic to the Bronze Age. The data show that depigmentation alleles arose and were common but not universal well before agriculture arrived in Europe, but the eye & skin colour changes were independent as there are individuals with all possible combinations of derived/ancestral skin/eye alleles. There is a mtDNA division between east and west Europe which is also reflected in depigmentation with a higher frequency of depigmented skin in the east and depigmented eyes in the west. There were high frequencies of skin depigmentation alleles by the Bronze Age which agrees with previous identification of these markers as under recent strong selection. There is a general trend to depigmentation over time. Demographic processes must be important but it is not clear what is driving the selection of depigmentation.
ISBA 2014
ipna.unibas.ch
 
Cool, so that means we'll be getting some results from the Neolithic Balkans, modern Serbia soon?

G2a, I2a, and F would make the samples consistent with other European Neolithic samples we've seen. It will be interesting to see if there is subclade information for the I2a1. I2-M26 seems like the safer bet to me, but could it be something that looks like I2a-Din?
 
I2a-Din is very young subclade, from Iron age.
But Neolithic "Grand Father" of I2a-Din possibly were there
 
sparkey said:
Cool, so that means we'll be getting some results from the Neolithic Balkans, modern Serbia soon?

G2a, I2a, and F would make the samples consistent with other European Neolithic samples we've seen. It will be interesting to see if there is subclade information for the I2a1. I2-M26 seems like the safer bet to me, but could it be something that looks like I2a-Din?
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I think we should start seeing more E1b with EV13 samples. I'll be surprised if much I2a will show up in Neolithic farmers (well till late Neolithic), unless samples are from HG caves.
 
LeBrok said:
I think we should start seeing more E1b with EV13 samples. I'll be surprised if much I2a will show up in Neolithic farmers (well till late Neolithic), unless samples are from HG caves.
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According to one theory, the I2a remains from the early Neolithic should be found in the same general area as the Neolithic farmers, but in separate settlements along a seashore or river where they could have make a living from fishing without coming into conflict with the farmers who were using their former hunting lands. The I2a folk would then have gradually mixed with the other haplotypes.
 
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