Ancient DNA, admx. history and endogamy in the prehistoricAegean Skourtaniotietal2022

[kingjohn]

Where can i find G25 in this study ?

in anthrogenica
in this specific paper thread- page 12



Scaled

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[capisan]

in anthrogenica
in this specific paper thread- page 12



Scaled

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XAN034,0.108132,0.161469,-0.018479,-0.087533,0.030159,-0.033467,-0.00564,-0.011076,0.009613,0.053577,0.00682,0.014687,-0.019029,-0.004266,-0.03488,-0.013392,0.015125,0.002534,0.008547,-0.012381,-0.011854,0.001978,0,0.015906,0.001557
XAN035,0.102441,0.160454,-0.000377,-0.06137,0.036007,-0.027889,-0.001175,-0.001615,0.012885,0.060138,0.006658,0.007943,-0.01115,0.002477,-0.02348,-0.02148,-0.004563,-0.000633,0.011564,-0.02026,-0.001497,0.008903,-0.008751,0.000964,-0.003832
XAN036,0.101303,0.168578,-0.001131,-0.075905,0.029236,-0.029005,-0.007755,0.000462,0.011862,0.051391,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016055,0.006606,-0.021851,-0.016706,-0.00339,-0.002534,0.011816,-0.016383,-0.010856,0.001237,-0.003328,0.001084,-0.003473
XAN040,0.097888,0.151314,0.00528,-0.050388,0.041854,-0.031515,-0.00423,-0.008307,0.020043,0.043737,0.001624,0.007343,-0.001933,-0.00578,-0.012758,0.000133,0.035595,-0.007348,0.008045,-5e-04,-0.018967,-0.001731,-0.003081,0.003615,0.000359
XAN041,0.103579,0.166547,-0.010559,-0.079781,0.030159,-0.030678,-0.00846,-0.003923,0.017794,0.048657,0.000162,0.007793,-0.017839,-0.000963,-0.025515,-0.012861,0.01004,0.006461,0.014455,-0.015883,-0.005615,0.005564,-0.002835,0.005663,-0.005508
XAN051,0.111547,0.141159,0.013953,-0.02907,0.021542,-0.018407,-0.003995,0.004384,0.001636,0.031162,0.000162,0.012439,-0.009366,-0.002615,-0.00665,-0.006762,0.010561,-0.00114,-0.001508,-0.015883,-0.004243,-0.000742,-0.004807,-0.001687,-0.002155
XAN053,0.102441,0.161469,-0.013199,-0.068153,0.033545,-0.034025,-0.011045,-0.001385,0.007567,0.056311,-0.001624,0.01139,-0.012339,-0.004542,-0.029858,0.000796,0.013299,0.012922,0.018729,-0.01063,-0.012228,0.007543,-0.00493,0.001325,-0.003473

Thanks you

 

[Kari]

Jovialis,dont they have high Sub-Sahara?

 

[Omino]

Jovialis,dont they have high Sub-Sahara?

none of them

 

[Riverman]

Jovialis,dont they have high Sub-Sahara?

Most of the Subsaharan admixture, even in the Near East and to some extend large parts of North Africa, dates to a later period.

 

[Wanderer]

From Anthrogenica:


Very interesting if these reads are all correct. A lot of Near Eastern E, kind of unexpected, plus one such basal individual. Looks like the ancestors of E-V13 got through, but didn't stay, like expected with the Impresso-Cardial into Lengyel expansion up the rivers (Danube, Tisza, Rhine with Lengyel, Michelsberg) of E1b1b.

It is not unexpected if you read herodotus and diodorus. Ancient greek gods and heracles were egyptain decent. So was persues from libya. And daunus was. Also, cadmus came from phonecia. The greeks derived their script and phonecians, and the phonecians were a mariteam empire existing since about 2500BC to 2000 BC. This is even before our earliest known sample for J-L283. Its not that they didn't stay. Their population may be depleted through a genocide. And so there would be low percentage left of greek near eastern E1b decended from those ancient ones.

 

[Omino]

It is not unexpected if you read herodotus and diodorus. Ancient greek gods and heracles were egyptain decent. So was persues from libya. And daunus was. Also, cadmus came from phonecia. The greeks derived their script and phonecians, and the phonecians were a mariteam empire existing since about 2500BC to 2000 BC. This is even before our earliest known sample for J-L283. Its not that they didn't stay. Their population may be depleted through a genocide. And so there would be low percentage left of greek near eastern E1b decended from those ancient ones.

-"Ancient greek gods and heracles were egyptain decent."
pure BS
-Perseus according to the myth was the son of Zeus and Danae,the daughter of King of Argos
-Minoans were maritime Civilization too as old as phoenicians
-"the phonecians were a mariteam empire existing since about 2500BC to 2000 BC. This is even before our earliest known sample for J-L283"
Your claim does not make any sense
-"And so there would be low percentage left of greek near eastern E1b decended from those ancient ones."
E subclaldes found in Greece have almost nothing to do with MENA,they were also found in anatolia where they came from(through EEF).
-MENA admixture was not found in any genetic study so far
-All Genetic studies on Bronze or Iron Age Aegean show some combination of EEF+Steppe+CHG

Rarely seen so much BS in just one post

 

[Francesco]

I believe there is a bit of extra Levant PPN ancestry in Myceneans, at least in some of them, compared to the Anatolian neolithic samples, which anyway already shows some levant PPN admixture. Not a major component, though.

 

[mount123]

It is not unexpected if you read herodotus and diodorus. Ancient greek gods and heracles were egyptain decent. So was persues from libya. And daunus was. Also, cadmus came from phonecia. The greeks derived their script and phonecians, and the phonecians were a mariteam empire existing since about 2500BC to 2000 BC. This is even before our earliest known sample for J-L283. Its not that they didn't stay. Their population may be depleted through a genocide. And so there would be low percentage left of greek near eastern E1b decended from those ancient ones.

There is only one pre-M84, mentioned by Kingjohn some posts earlier, also no E1b-V13 in this study. The XAN016 sample belongs to E1b-L618>CTS10912>BY6578 and doesn't have a distribution both modern/ancient that would support a recent African arrival neither does its autosomal DNA or phylogeny support that idea. It is a very rare haplogroup and most likely would have joined the Neolithic wave at some point in time. I am not going to comment on the bizarre pseudohistorical non sense about ancient Greek gods being "North African" and what not (might be shocking to you but those weren't real beings to begin with), as that doesn't differ much from other troll posts of yours.

E1b-CTS10912 Sample (n=1)
ID XAN016	Chania, Crete		E1b-CTS10912>BY6578

Also, how does any of the non sense you are posting here relate to the slightest to Western Balkan J2b-L283 in any way?

 

[kingjohn]

There is only one pre-M84, mentioned by Kingjohn some posts earlier, also no E1b-V13 in this study. The XAN016 sample belongs to E1b-L618>CTS10912>BY6578 and doesn't have a distribution both modern/ancient that would support a recent African arrival neither does its autosomal DNA or phylogeny support that idea. It is a very rare haplogroup and most likely would have joined the Neolithic wave at some point in time. I am not going to comment on the bizarre pseudohistorical non sense about ancient Greek gods being "North African" and what not (might be shocking to you but those weren't real beings to begin with), as that doesn't differ much from other troll posts of yours.

E1b-CTS10912 Sample (n=1)
ID XAN016	Chania, Crete		E1b-CTS10912>BY6578

Also, how does any of the non sense you are posting here relate to the slightest to Western Balkan J2b-L283 in any way?

yes
and it is probably
a dead end linage ( a rare case)
https://i.imgur.com/3C41zYH.png
https://i.imgur.com/HG9Q42Y.png

 

[real expert]

-"Ancient greek gods and heracles were egyptain decent."
pure BS
-Perseus according to the myth was the son of Zeus and Danae,the daughter of King of Argos
-Minoans were maritime Civilization too as old as phoenicians
-"the phonecians were a mariteam empire existing since about 2500BC to 2000 BC. This is even before our earliest known sample for J-L283"
Your claim does not make any sense
-"And so there would be low percentage left of greek near eastern E1b decended from those ancient ones."
E subclaldes found in Greece have almost nothing to do with MENA,they were also found in anatolia where they came from(through EEF).
-MENA admixture was not found in any genetic study so far
-All Genetic studies on Bronze or Iron Age Aegean show some combination of EEF+Steppe+CHG

Rarely seen so much BS in just one post

I agree with you that the Greek gods are based on Greek or, more specifically, Indo-European mythology. Nevertheless, the early Greeks accepted that the Egyptian gods were their gods, just with different names and appearances. For instance, Herodotus claims that Amon is shown with a ram’s head in memory of a trick he (Zeus) played on Herakles (Hercules) and provides reasons for the differences between several other sets of Greek and Egyptian gods. And he also asserts that the parents of many Greek heroes and demi-gods came from Egypt. The thing is, people with polytheistic religions frequently transferred their deities to other cultures as well. For example, the Romans in Britain identified their goddess Minerva with a local water goddess near Bath, both of whom were associated with wisdom. They called the combined goddess Sulis-Minerva. Whether that was done for religious reasons, i.e., the Romans believed the two to be the same goddess, or for political reasons, i.e., to keep the local tribes happy, is uncertain.

It appears that the Egyptian-Greek hybrid gods were worshipped solely by Greeks living in Egypt, with no influence on religious practice in Greece. So this suggests that Egyptian influence on Greek religious beliefs was minor. Moreover, Herodotus mentions Egyptian gods frequently, but very often by their Greek equivalent names rather than the Egyptian names transliterated into Greek. However, he was obsessed with the idea that the Hellenes derived from Egypt—not only many of their religious observances but also the gods themselves. For example, according to Herodotus in his Histories (Herodotus, The Histories, ii 55, and vii 134), "The Egyptians were also the first to introduce solemn assemblies, processions, and litanies to the gods; of all which the Greeks were taught the use by them. The reality is that Herodotus was really an Egyptomaniac who wanted to link the ancient Greeks to the ancient civilization in Egypt. Afrocentrists frequently cite Herodotus and other ancient Greek historians out of cultural and historical context. They do so to push their "Egyptians taught the Greeks everything" trope.

 

[Wanderer]

There is only one pre-M84, mentioned by Kingjohn some posts earlier, also no E1b-V13 in this study. The XAN016 sample belongs to E1b-L618>CTS10912>BY6578 and doesn't have a distribution both modern/ancient that would support a recent African arrival neither does its autosomal DNA or phylogeny support that idea. It is a very rare haplogroup and most likely would have joined the Neolithic wave at some point in time . I am not going to comment on the bizarre pseudohistorical non sense about ancient Greek gods being "North African" and what not (might be shocking to you but those weren't real beings to begin with), as that doesn't differ much from other troll posts of yours.

E1b-CTS10912 Sample (n=1)
ID XAN016	Chania, Crete		E1b-CTS10912>BY6578

Also, how does any of the non sense you are posting here relate to the slightest to Western Balkan J2b-L283 in any way?

Why ask a question like this but then agree it's probably entered older than J-L283 when it's what I was stating in relation to J-L283. I said that it's probably predating J-L283 in europe essentially..
Whether it's neolithic or not would still fit with everything said..
It's what ancient greek historians had said about it if you consider that pseudo history.

 

[Omino]

I agree with you that the Greek gods are based on Greek or, more specifically, Indo-European mythology. Nevertheless, the early Greeks accepted that the Egyptian gods were their gods, just with different names and appearances. For instance, Herodotus claims that Amon is shown with a ram’s head in memory of a trick he (Zeus) played on Herakles (Hercules) and provides reasons for the differences between several other sets of Greek and Egyptian gods. And he also asserts that the parents of many Greek heroes and demi-gods came from Egypt. The thing is, people with polytheistic religions frequently transferred their deities to other cultures as well. For example, the Romans in Britain identified their goddess Minerva with a local water goddess near Bath, both of whom were associated with wisdom. They called the combined goddess Sulis-Minerva. Whether that was done for religious reasons, i.e., the Romans believed the two to be the same goddess, or for political reasons, i.e., to keep the local tribes happy, is uncertain.

It appears that the Egyptian-Greek hybrid gods were worshipped solely by Greeks living in Egypt, with no influence on religious practice in Greece. So this suggests that Egyptian influence on Greek religious beliefs was minor. Moreover, Herodotus mentions Egyptian gods frequently, but very often by their Greek equivalent names rather than the Egyptian names transliterated into Greek. However, he was obsessed with the idea that the Hellenes derived from Egypt—not only many of their religious observances but also the gods themselves. For example, according to Herodotus in his Histories (Herodotus, The Histories, ii 55, and vii 134), "The Egyptians were also the first to introduce solemn assemblies, processions, and litanies to the gods; of all which the Greeks were taught the use by them. The reality is that Herodotus was really an Egyptomaniac who wanted to link the ancient Greeks to the ancient civilization in Egypt. Afrocentrists frequently cite Herodotus and other ancient Greek historians out of cultural and historical context. They do so to push their "Egyptians taught the Greeks everything" trope.

100% agree on afrocentrist nonsensical copypaste

 

[Omino]

Why ask a question like this but then agree it's probably entered older than J-L283 when it's what I was stating in relation to J-L283. I said that it's probably predating J-L283 in europe essentially..
Whether it's neolithic or not would still fit with everything said..
It's what ancient greek historians had said about it if you consider that pseudo history.

Genetic studies have debunked the "Greeks came from africa" myth long time ago,you should update yourself and leave such pseudohistoric nonsense behind

 

[Wanderer]

-"Ancient greek gods and heracles were egyptain decent."
pure BS
-Perseus according to the myth was the son of Zeus and Danae,the daughter of King of Argos
-Minoans were maritime Civilization too as old as phoenicians
-"the phonecians were a mariteam empire existing since about 2500BC to 2000 BC. This is even before our earliest known sample for J-L283"
Your claim does not make any sense
-"And so there would be low percentage left of greek near eastern E1b decended from those ancient ones."
E subclaldes found in Greece have almost nothing to do with MENA,they were also found in anatolia where they came from(through EEF).
-MENA admixture was not found in any genetic study so far
-All Genetic studies on Bronze or Iron Age Aegean show some combination of EEF+Steppe+CHG

Rarely seen so much BS in just one post

 

[Wanderer]

Genetic studies have debunked the "Greeks came from africa" myth long time ago,you should update yourself and leave such pseudohistoric nonsense behind

Most greeks were pelasgian decendants and from other parts of the balkans. They became admixed though with thenatives of their colonies and mixed with carians and phonecians. Thats why when rome absorbs greece Romans become admixed. This is also many greeks have some kind of mena admixture while albanians do not. Also why southern italians who have the least germanic and ostrogoth admixture have mena admixture as well. Its ancient admixture.
But their dieties were of egyptian origin, and some of their early rulers were of egyptian descent, and they had egyptian refugees from when daunus was banished, i believe, and other settlers and colonist.

So its no surprise if we found an ancient E1b related to Near East or norh Africa really

 

[Omino]

Most greeks were pelasgian decendants and from other parts of the balkans. They became admixed though with thenatives of their colonies and mixed with carians and phonecians. Thats why when rome absorbs greece Romans become admixed. This is also many greeks have some kind of mena admixture while albanians do not. Also why southern italians who have the least germanic and ostrogoth admixture have mena admixture as well. Its ancient admixture.
But their dieties were of egyptian origin, and some of their early rulers were of egyptian descent, and they had egyptian refugees from when daunus was banished, i believe, and other settlers and colonist.
So its no surprise if we found an ancient E1b related to Near East or norh Africa really

Oh your source is a YouTube pseudohistorian spreading fringe theories, what a surprise.
-Pelasgians was just a term to describe either the predecessors of the Greeks or all the inhabitantts of Greece before the emergence of the Greeks.they had nothing to do with Balkans.
-None actual historian described mass mixture with Carians or Phoenicians.
- Both Greeks & Italians have almost Zero mena admixture (Any admixture comes from later immigrations). The majority of their DNA comes from Anatolian Farmers,not from MENA.
For god's sake you should really read actual scientists and ignore nonsensical afrocentrist theories

 

[Wanderer]

Oh your source is a YouTube pseudohistorian spreading fringe theories, what a surprise.
-Pelasgians was just a term to describe either the predecessors of the Greeks or all the inhabitantts of Greece before the emergence of the Greeks.they had nothing to do with Balkans.
-None actual historian described mass mixture with Carians or Phoenicians.
- Both Greeks & Italians have almost Zero mena admixture (Any admixture comes from later immigrations). The majority of their DNA comes from Anatolian Farmers,not from MENA.
For god's sake you should really read actual scientists and ignore nonsensical afrocentrist theories

No. Its sourced. I constructed the video. Thats a dummy account.
Its from herodotus and diodorus siculus. Both were Ancient greek historians

The versions I used are in the description

They do. In particular, southern italians. In any case, anatolian farmers are anatolian... and yes, they settled the ageans, which is also why they are called agean sometimes. The carians themselves were from anatolia that populated the agean and the mycneneans used them in their navy also. I may make another video sometime in the future addressing some of your denials.

 

[Omino]

No. Its sourced. I constructed the video. Thats a dummy account.
Its from herodotus and diodorus siculus. Both were Ancient greek historians

The versions I used are in the description

They do. In particular, southern italians. In any case, anatolian farmers are anatolian... and yes, they settled the ageans, which is also why they are called agean sometimes. The carians themselves were from anatolia that populated the agean and the mycneneans used them in their navy also. I may make another video sometime in the future addressing some of your denials.

Oh god here we go again.
-South Italians have some mena admixture through later immigrations
-As I've already told you multiple times Anatolia has almost nothing to do with Africa
-To make it clear you're posting as source of information your own videos?

 

[Wanderer]

Oh god here we go again.
-South Italians have some mena admixture through later immigrations
-As I've already told you multiple times Anatolia has almost nothing to do with Africa
-To make it clear you're posting as source of information your own videos? [emoji38][emoji1751]

As explained, they have admixture from absorbing the greek populations when they absorbed greece and conquered greece.
I never said Anataolia had to do with africa.
I said Anatolian Farmers are also called Aegean. Because Anatolians populated the Agean, so it's used interchangeably...
My source was herodotus histories and the complete works of Diodorus Siculus. Both were ancient Greek historians....