Anthrogenica Archives Mtdna J

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J1c8 - Maternal Haplogroup (Credit goes to trdbr1234 and Little Bit of Anthrogenica

Origin and Migrations of Haplogroup J1c8
Your maternal line stems from a branch of J called J1c8. Haplogroup J1c8 is a relatively young haplogroup that traces back to a woman who lived approximately 6,000 years ago. Her ancestors migrated into Europe from the Middle East as the Ice Age receded between 14,000 and 11,000 years ago. While J1c8 already existed in the west before the spread of agriculture, it likely expanded along with the farming populations as they moved west across the continent.

Today, members of J1c8 are found almost exclusively within Europe, and researchers speculate that the traces of J1c8 in the Middle East are due to eastward migrations of people much later in human history.

Does anyone know the frequency of this branch in the Balkans?​

Little Bit

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Here's what FTDNA's mtdna J group suggests for various J1c subclades:
Screen Shot 2018-02-05 at 6.06.01 AM.jpg
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J1c7a​

StillWater: ​

Let's start a thread. This lineage seems ultimately Germanic.​

Unk Kadath: Looks prevalent in Eastern Europe and Scandinavia per this data.​

What is even more interesting on those charts are the low age estimates.. we are late bloomers.

[Quote/] Unk Kadath: Looks prevalent in Eastern Europe and Scandinavia per this data.​

What is even more interesting on those charts are the low age estimates.. we are late bloomers.

Most of the East European J1c7a seems to be Jewish. [Quote/]
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StillWater: Most of the East European J1c7a seems to be Jewish.​

[Quote/] StillWater: Most of the East European J1c7a seems to be Jewish.​

A lot of older studies I have seen conflated J2 and J1, so I am not really certain of what the latest attributions are either within or outside of Jewish populations. I have a female relative who is actually Mt J2 out of a colonial population, who migrated to the US from Scotland.. which I do not have any certain explanation for, but "something, something Roman" seems the most likely explanation.

Has any J1c(7) ever been identified in a pre-diaspora / levantine population, or are you suspecting Euro origin? I know that my J1c8 is actually "a2". Although I match the primary origin (Isles) predicted in the chart I linked to, 23andMe for some reason shows some an X segment as 'Norwegian' in foreign matches.

I think that for the most part, there are some regional commonalities, but essentially MTdna does not show reliable territorialism.
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[Quote/] A lot of older studies I have seen conflated J2 and J1, so I am not really certain of what the latest attributions are either within or outside of Jewish populations. I have a female relative who is actually Mt J2 out of a colonial population, who migrated to the US from Scotland.. which I do not have any certain explanation for, but "something, something Roman" seems the most likely explanation.
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Has any J1c(7) ever been identified in a pre-diaspora / levantine population, or are you suspecting Euro origin? I know that my J1c8 is actually "a2". Although I match the primary origin (Isles) predicted in the chart I linked to, 23andMe for some reason shows some an X segment as 'Norwegian' in foreign matches.

I think that for the most part, there are some regional commonalities, but essentially MTdna does not show reliable territorialism. [Quote/]

StillWater: This isn't about J1c. It hardly matters where J1c has been found. The thread is about J1c7a. All these other clades you mention are eons apart. No, J1c7a hasn't been found in the Levant. As I said in the OP, it is likely Germanic in origin. And most of the East European samples in the public databases I've seen are Ashkenazi Jews, followed by ethnic Germans. It is likely Germanic>Western Ashkenazi>Eastern Ashkenazi. Your J1c8 is really far away.

Glaucus I found this:​

The mtDNA haplogroup J1c7a that's found among a small proportion of Ashkenazim is of Balto-Slavic origin. In the data accompanying the article "A mosaic genetic structure of the human population living in the South Baltic region during the Iron Age" by Ireneusz Stolarek, Anna Juras, et al. in Scientific Reports 8 (February 6, 2018): article number 2455, J1c7a was carried by a person buried in the Kowalewko cemetery in Poland during the Iron Age. J1c7a was also present among medieval Hungarians and is found among modern Poles, Swedes, Finns, Germans, and English, among others.
http://khazaria.com/genetics/aj-east...admixture.html


A mosaic genetic structure of the human population living in the South Baltic region during the Iron Age
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-20705-6


Mine is J1c14
My maternal grandmother's mother was an Ashkenazi Jew
most distant ancestor was her maternal grandmother Sarah Hirshberg
She, her husband Herman Hosias, and their daughter/my great grandmother's mother Rachel aka Irene were born in the area in the Russian Empire that became Latvia. Both Herman and Irene were born in Mitau, Courland. I don't know about Sarah.
Before she immigrated to USA in 1911, Irene was living in Riga.


StillWater: According to FTDNA mTDNA Haplotree, J1c14 and J1c7 share J1c-C16261T as parent haplogroup [Quote/]

The culture that J1c7a was found in Iron Age Poland was a Germanic culture and there is a Bronze Age J1c7a from Gotland. Also, J1c7a is one of the largest Ashkenazi MTDNA, which suggests an earlier entry date. This makes a Balto-Slavic origin for it in Jews less likely than a Germanic one.

[Quote/] StillWater: According to FTDNA mTDNA Haplotree, J1c14 and J1c7 share J1c-C16261T as parent haplogroup [Quote/]​

The culture that J1c7a was found in Iron Age Poland was a Germanic culture and there is a Bronze Age J1c7a from Gotland. Also, J1c7a is one of the largest Ashkenazi MTDNA, which suggests an earlier entry date. This makes a Balto-Slavic origin for it in Jews less likely than a Germanic one.

Twilight: Hey J1c7a cousin, my Mtdna paper trail takes me to 18th century Sevenoaks; 7 hour hike Southeast from London, England. Martha Dunks (1797-1870) came from a long line of Bricklayers.​

It’s interesting that Bronze Age Gotland contained J1c7a as well.

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Glaucus: ​

J1c14

I did full Mitochondrial testing at FamilyTreeDNA, I was revealed to have J1c14.
I have 9 extra mutations which are G185A, G228A, 315.1C, 522.1A, 522.2C, 522.3A, 522.4C, T16093C, C16519T.


My DNA matches seem to be mainly Ashkenazi Jews
One in particular is Joshua Robbin Marks who wrote the small book, Seed of Israel. He's full Ashkenazi.
He has a channel on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/c/SeedOfIsrael/featured

My maternal grandmother's mother Ruth Rosenthal was a first generation Ashkenazi Jewish American. Her father and his parents immigrated from Romania. Her mother and her parents immigrated from Latvia.

The earliest matrilineal ancestor that I know is my 3rd Great Grandmother Sarah Hershberg who was married to my 3rd Great Grandfather Herman Hosias. Their daughter, Irene was Ruth's mother and married to Ruth's father Max Rosenthal who was son of Samuel Rosenthal and Mary Josephs.


according to eupedia

J1c14 is found in Central and Eastern Europe



Does anybody else have J1c14?

any additional info about it?​

Leorcooper: To date, and to my knowledge, J1c14 is exclusively Ashkenazi. Wim Penninx estimated it to make up approximately 1.4% of Ashkenazi Jewish maternal lines. Its parent, J1c-a (AKA J1c-C16261T) is likely from Neolithic Anatolia and J1c14 has at least 6 SNPs at its level, indicating a significant bottleneck. For now, we can't say much more, including whether or not it's European vs Middle Eastern.​

See this chart I made using data from FTDNA (n=60). It shows the countries of origin for J1c14 carriers. All of the country rates are actually close to their respective averages, so they're no particularly strong pattern that distinguishes J1c14 from other Ashkenazi lineages except for its WAJ (Western Ashkenazi Jews) rate, which is below average. However, it's not as low as lineages like HV1b2/M33c/N9a3 so I doubt it "skipped" Germany in the medieval period. That said, if this rate is legit, then it probably isn't from the Rhenish Jewish community, although a larger sample size may change that.

[Quote/]​

Leorcooper: To date, and to my knowledge, J1c14 is exclusively Ashkenazi. Wim Penninx estimated it to make up approximately 1.4% of Ashkenazi Jewish maternal lines. Its parent, J1c-a (AKA J1c-C16261T) is likely from Neolithic Anatolia and J1c14 has at least 6 SNPs at its level, indicating a significant bottleneck. For now, we can't say much more, including whether or not it's European vs Middle Eastern.​

See this chart I made using data from FTDNA (n=60). It shows the countries of origin for J1c14 carriers. All of the country rates are actually close to their respective averages, so they're no particularly strong pattern that distinguishes J1c14 from other Ashkenazi lineages except for its WAJ (Western Ashkenazi Jews) rate, which is below average. However, it's not as low as lineages like HV1b2/M33c/N9a3 so I doubt it "skipped" Germany in the medieval period. That said, if this rate is legit, then it probably isn't from the Rhenish Jewish community, although a larger sample size may change that.

Glaucus: Thank you for your response. I didn't think it was from the Rhineland Jewish community. After reading that it was found in Central and Eastern Europe, I was wondering if maybe it came from a female in Central or Eastern Europe like a Polish or Lithuanian female. My 2nd Great Grandmother Irene Hosias and her parents came from Latvia which borders Lithuania and has a history of being under Polish-Lithuanian rule.

Leorcooper: This is sadly a major problem in the field; there are so many websites that come up whenever one searches something like "J1c14" that are extremely outdated, incorrect, and misleading. The "Central and Eastern European" countries in question are actually just the countries where the Ashkenazim in the lineage trace to, not actual ethnic Germans/Czechs/Poles/Ukrainians/Lithuanians/etc.​

As I said in my previous response, to date, there are no other known carriers of J1c14 other than Ashkenazim and their descendants. There is actually a pretty good chance (maybe even >50%, considering the sizable bottleneck) that J1c14 is proximately West Asian in ultimate origin, as opposed to European.


I am not seeing the chart that you mentioned.


Here's the link again: https://imgbb.com/G9sRSgy

I've tried to link attachments using the "Insert Image" function, but I've never been able to make it work.

Glaucus: I was checking out my Mitochondrial DNA Haplogroup J1c14 at FamilyTreeDNA.​

My maternal grandmother's mother was a first generation Ashkenazi Jewish American with a father who immigrated from Romania and a mother that immigrated from Latvia.
My maternal origins are in Latvia.
I thought J1c14's parent haplogroup was J1c.
It turns out J1c14 shares a parent haplogroup with J1c7 and J1c-C16261T-A189G.
Their parent haplogroup is J1c-C16261T.
My mitochondrial DNA J1c14 matches are people with maternal origins in
Ukraine (18), Poland (12), Russian Federation (10), Lithuania (9), Germany (6), Hungary (5), Romania (5), United States (2), Palestinian Territory (1), Canada (1), United Kingdom (1).

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