Are Central Greeks and Peloponnese Greeks clustered with Cretans/Greek Islanders?

Pax Augusta · May 24, 2017

New Englander said:
But I would expect the less Slavic, the more West Asian.

Why? I don't get the problem.

New Englander · May 24, 2017

The range for Slavic is 1-14% correct? Well, I would assume its regional. SO what is the mode? Now, if it is not regional, would we suspect to find individuals with 14% Slavic, and an elevated West Asian level? I would assume those with elevated Slavic ancestry, to have lesser amounts of West Asian, while the more Sicilian like individuals to have less Slavic, hence why they cluster with Sicilians....

LATGAL · May 24, 2017

New Englander said:
So than its:

Spain
Portugal
Northern Italy
Sardinia

Bulgaria
Tuscany
Central Italy
Thessalians
Albania

Central greece
Ashkenazi
South Italians/West Sicily
Crete / Sparta
East Sicily/Sephardi Jews

Cyprus/Anatolian Greeks

I'm not sure what this is supposed to be about, exactly. Sardinians in particular are a highly drifted and genetically 'special' population.

Angela · May 24, 2017

LATGAL said:
I'm not sure what this is supposed to be about, exactly. Sardinians in particular are a highly drifted and genetically 'special' population.

You beat me to it. The Sardinians don't really cluster with anyone.

Yetos · May 24, 2017

Angela said:
You beat me to it. The Sardinians don't really cluster with anyone.

don't be so sure,

I am expecting a group from Greece to be next to them,

Angela · May 24, 2017

Yetos said:
don't be so sure,

I am expecting a group from Greece to be next to them,

Now, don't be coy. Which group and why?

New Englander · May 25, 2017

Well Sardinia can be in a cluster separate from the top one. All I was showing were micro clusters within Mediterranean Europe, With the South West, and East Med divide, with a intermediate group having either Atlantic/Slavic and West Asian....Based on about every GEDmatch oracle I have ever seen, not sure why this is such a radical idea.

Hauteville · May 25, 2017

New Englander said:
So than its:

Spain
Portugal
Northern Italy
Sardinia

Bulgaria
Tuscany
Central Italy
Thessalians
Albania

Central greece
Ashkenazi
South Italians/West Sicily
Crete / Sparta
East Sicily/Sephardi Jews

Cyprus/Anatolian Greeks

Actually the right cataloging of the samples judging by the spreadsheet is the following:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1414535&t=5673629

Basque
Spain
Bergamo
Portugal
Tuscany/Bulgaria
Albania
Thessaly
Abruzzo/West Sicily
Central Greece/East Sicily
South Italy (actually only Calabria)
Ashkenazi
Sephardi
Cyprus

Angela · May 25, 2017

I will give everyone an hour to copy their off-topic material to the Balkanian disagreements thread. After that it's all deleted.

LATGAL · May 25, 2017

LABERIA said:
The influence of Tosk Albanians in South Balcan during the history, i mean at least in the last millenium, is enormus. From Shkumbin river to the greek islands was Toskëri.

DuPidh said:
we are not disagreeing for anything. We are contributing in clarifying the topic of Greek autosomal large discrepancies among regions of Greece, and suggesting that the reason behind this is because if Greek genetics is taken into account, Greece is not a country. Greece is actually a collection of Balkan populations, an accidental creation of Big Powers of 19 century. So there is no point of talking about Greek genetics. And there is not room for subjectivity for what I am saying. Everything is documented from Greeks themselves.

Not sure what Albanian national mythology has to do with this thread.

Angela said:
I will give everyone an hour to copy their off-topic material to the Balkanian disagreements thread. After that it's all deleted.

There are two Albanian users who do this to every Balkan-related thread. It will just keep happening, you know.

Yetos · May 25, 2017

Pax Augusta said:
Greek Thessalians are somewhat closer to Tuscans (the Tuscan dot is based on southern Tuscans though), but not the rest of Greek mainlanders.

@Pax

if what you said before is certain,

start thinking about what I say long time ago

Thessaly is also known as Pelasgian Argos

and many ancient writers connect Lemnos and other Pelasgian areas with Thyrrenians,

is that possible (not certain, but possible) by the genetics you post?

Angela · May 26, 2017

After this point, each and every post which is off topic will result in an infraction. If you see such a post, DO NOT RESPOND. Contact me and I will issue the infraction.

LATGAL · May 26, 2017

My bad, was typing.

Angela · May 26, 2017

I'm assuming we cross posted, so I 'm giving you a pass, but it's the last one on this thread.

People, do not respond to off topic posts. CONTACT ME!

I guess LeBrok has been right all along. Some people only understand the hammer.

LABERIA · May 26, 2017

LATGAL said:
My bad, was typing.

Don't worry, something was saved :

LATGAL said:
Not sure what Albanian national mythology has to do with this thread.

There are two Albanian users who do this to every Balkan-related thread. It will just keep happening, you know.

spartan owl · May 27, 2017

I belive even the question of the thread is stupid. Ofcourse central greece and peloponnese would clouster better with the aegean islands and north greece than anyone else.They belong to the same nation.
(Do you new englander have dna results from sparta that you use on your classification or you just meant laconia?If you do as a spartan i whould be really intersted in them.But if you meant laconia why should be as a whole different than the rest of peloponnese?Arcadia and argolis seems to share even less ancestry with france for example, even if laconia have within her a population (mani)that do not clust with no one like sardinia.)
If this is an excuse to make an north to south clasification then just say it clear.But even in that case why do you compare states with regions?

New Englander · May 27, 2017

I just meant Sparta as in Southern mainland Greece, or Laconia. I pretty much base what I know on GEDmatch results, and it seems that as someone who charts as 75% Ashkenazim, and 25% Swedish most of the time, I consistently cluster in Southern mainland Greece and Abruzzo, Italy. I than get Sicilian, Jewish, Turkish, and than Northern Italy and Spain. Sometimes I end with Cyprus. My point is, that its not hard to see what groups go with what if we are only concerned with similarities in admixture.

As far as Sardinia, I'm not sure what you mean, but they might group with Baskids somehow, I'm not sure.

Now, Im sure most Greeks have direct ancestry in common, but of course there will be regional variations. Some Greeks with have much more in common with Bulgarians, while others will have more in common with Cyprus and whatever groups are close to them.

spartan owl · May 28, 2017

New Englander said:
I just meant Sparta as in Southern mainland Greece, or Laconia. I pretty much base what I know on GEDmatch results, and it seems that as someone who charts as 75% Ashkenazim, and 25% Swedish most of the time, I consistently cluster in Southern mainland Greece and Abruzzo, Italy. I than get Sicilian, Jewish, Turkish, and than Northern Italy and Spain. Sometimes I end with Cyprus. My point is, that its not hard to see what groups go with what if we are only concerned with similarities in admixture.

As far as Sardinia, I'm not sure what you mean, but they might group with Baskids somehow, I'm not sure.

Now, Im sure most Greeks have direct ancestry in common, but of course there will be regional variations. Some Greeks with have much more in common with Bulgarians, while others will have more in common with Cyprus and whatever groups are close to them.

yes there will be regional variations but they will cluster amongst them anyhow.So the question of the thread are central and peloponnesean greeks clustered with cretan and aegean greeks? is a pointless question ofcourse they do! As for the sardinian part what i meant is that mani is like the sardinians in the sense that they are a case of isolated population like the reggio calabria greeks of bova that differs from their neighbours because of the isolation.In fact if you see the paper on peloponnese you will see in the suplementary information that they share the lowest percentage of dna with the italians amongst all peloponnesean populations and not the highest like the rest of the laconians.
But i did not uderstand you have a series of resuls in gedmatch specific for laconias?If you have i would like to see them.

New Englander · May 28, 2017

Project		Calculator	Population
MDLP Project	MDLP K11 Modern	Greek_Neolithic
MDLP Project	MDLP K16 Modern	Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K16 Modern	Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K16 Modern	Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K16 Modern	Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K16 Modern	Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K16 Modern	Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K16 Modern	Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Azov_Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Central_Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek_Athens
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek_Islands
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek_Macedonia
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek_Northwest
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek_Peloponnesos
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek_Phokaia
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek_Smyrna
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek_Thessaloniki
MDLP Project	MDLP K23b	Greek_Thessaly
MDLP Project	MDLP World	Greek_Azov
MDLP Project	MDLP World	Greek_Center
MDLP Project	MDLP World	Greek_North
MDLP Project	MDLP World	Greek_East
MDLP Project	MDLP World	Greek_Cretan
MDLP Project	MDLP World	Greek_South
MDLP Project	MDLP World-22	Greek_Azov
MDLP Project	MDLP World-22	Greek_Center
MDLP Project	MDLP World-22	Greek_Cretan
MDLP Project	MDLP World-22	Greek_East
MDLP Project	MDLP World-22	Greek_North
MDLP Project	MDLP World-22	Greek_South
Eurogenes	Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15	Central_Greek
Eurogenes	Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15	Greek
Eurogenes	Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15	Greek_Thessaly
Eurogenes	Eurogenes K13	Central_Greek
Eurogenes	Eurogenes K13	Greek_Thessaly
Dodecad	Dodecad K12b	Greek
Dodecad	Dodecad K7b	Greek
Dodecad	Dodecad V3	Greek
Dodecad	World9	Greek
puntDNAL	puntDNAL K10 Ancient	Greek
puntDNAL	puntDNAL K12 Modern	Greek
puntDNAL	puntDNAL K13 Global	Greek_Central
puntDNAL	puntDNAL K13 Global	Greek_Thessaly
puntDNAL	puntDNAL K15	Greek_Thessaly
puntDNAL	puntDNAL K15	Greek_Central
GedrosiaDNA	Ancient Eurasia K6	Greek
GedrosiaDNA	Eurasia K9 ASI	Greek
GedrosiaDNA	Gedrosia K12	Greek
GedrosiaDNA	Gedrosia K3	Greek
GedrosiaDNA	Near East Neolithic K13	Greek

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matadworf · Aug 14, 2017

Messinian

Here's mine (SW Pelop)
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.31
2 North_Atlantic 22.16
3 West_Med 20.22
4 Baltic 14.81
5 West_Asian 11.9
6 Red_Sea 3
7 Amerindian 0.61

Are Central Greeks and Peloponnese Greeks clustered with Cretans/Greek Islanders?

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