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Are Swabians related to Italians?

The Continental Celtic/Germanic borders have always been fuzzy, maybe this helps explain what we see. The y-DNA favors R1b Celtic lines, but the language pulls toward Germanic or even Norse speech. Now we should look to communal autosomal results to see how the entire DNA patterns are structured.
 
Regarding the Nobody and Taranis conversation, here's a novel (and a bit weird) approach.

I think we can agree that David Faux's Cimbri writings are well researched and thorough. His claims that the Northern Cimbri had strongly Celtic genetics does match with what we see in Denmark today and also with the remains that have been found in Jutland. (Please note: the studies going on in Denmark will be key in either cementing the Faux theory or will open up this area to additional I1 Norse influence. The importance of these findings can't be understated in my opinion).

But back to topic-- so what if the Cimbri in Jutland were indeed heavy in Celtic genetics including y-haplogroup, but spoke a Germanic language? To see this scenerio played out in real life, we only have to look at the overwhelming success of modern English (a primarily Germanic language).

Simply put, I think the directness of Germanic speech out-compete the Celtic tongues. Don't get me wrong, the lyrically gifted Irish can surely pack more meaning and subtext in a couple sentences than the standard German can in 15 pages, but when put side by side I think the masses pick the simplier and more direct approach.

Case in point, almost all of England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, and really almost the whole world at this point are speaking English rather than Gaelic variations (and yes I know of the Celtic native language resurgence-- too small yet to make a pronounced splash) even though all of the British Islanders are incredibly R1b dominate.

a general answer (and not too affirmative)
TARANIS: spite your big knowledge about I-e languages, I don't think a -mb- evolution to >> -mm- would be impossible at all - nor the contrary when 'm' is followed by a "liquid" consonnant -m+r >> -mb+r (we have more than an example)- but I agree with you that Cymru<<Combrog has nothing in common with Cimmerian -
ZANIPOLO: what defines ethny if languages is discarded??? (even if I agree language is not the unique criteria) could you think that collective language changes could have occurred so easily at ancient times in populations that did not know writing? have you some historic background to support this believing? our present days look smash crush the chronologic deepth of ancient times putting to believe a language change is a child play -
concerning Cimbri and Teutons I think they was rather on the celtic side (D; Faux put some good arguments and some Y-R1b SNP in N-Jutland S Norway coulde very well have been carried there by Celts, and in antiquity the mixing between ethnies was not so evident as today: celtic tribes could have penetrated or rather passed trhough proto-germanic tribes without huge crossings between them AT FIRST TIME (today conditions are different) - archeology seems proving in S-Sweden that some propulations progressed through the land without perturb too much ancient populations - old times deportments are NEITHER completely different NOR completely identical to today deportments: quicksands here!
 
Regarding the Nobody and Taranis conversation, here's a novel (and a bit weird) approach.

I think we can agree that David Faux's Cimbri writings are well researched and thorough. His claims that the Northern Cimbri had strongly Celtic genetics does match with what we see in Denmark today and also with the remains that have been found in Jutland. (Please note: the studies going on in Denmark will be key in either cementing the Faux theory or will open up this area to additional I1 Norse influence. The importance of these findings can't be understated in my opinion).

Faux's hypothesis is basically that R1b-U152 arrived in Britain from Jutland via the Cimbri. To be honest, it doesn't make much sense to me: I can agree with Faux - based on the distribution of U152's subclades - that U152 originated north of the Alps (I wouldn't narrow it down any further than that). With regard for Britain I think that U152 can be correlated a lot better with iron age movements from the La-Tène areas towards Britain, as well as (possibly) population movements during the Roman occupation of Britain. Both strike me as more probable than linking it with an ethnic group in Denmark which may or may not have been Celtic.

I do agree though, that I am looking forward to that DNA data from Denmark.

But back to topic-- so what if the Cimbri in Jutland were indeed heavy in Celtic genetics including y-haplogroup, but spoke a Germanic language? To see this scenerio played out in real life, we only have to look at the overwhelming success of modern English (a primarily Germanic language).

Simply put, I think the directness of Germanic speech out-compete the Celtic tongues. Don't get me wrong, the lyrically gifted Irish can surely pack more meaning and subtext in a couple sentences than the standard German can in 15 pages, but when put side by side I think the masses pick the simplier and more direct approach.

Case in point, almost all of England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, and really almost the whole world at this point are speaking English rather than Gaelic variations (and yes I know of the Celtic native language resurgence-- too small yet to make a pronounced splash) even though all of the British Islanders are incredibly R1b dominate.

You're underestimating two things: first off, how much languages change over time. Neither any of the modern Celtic, nor any of the modern Germanic languages (especially not English!) is particularly representative of what Celtic and Germanic languages were like 2000 years ago.

Also, the reason why the Germanic languages 'won out' over the Celtic ones (in terms of distribution and number of speakers) is a simple one: the Roman Empire conquered most Celtic-speaking areas in Europe, the languages of these areas was replaced eventually with Latin. The Germanic speaking peoples were left outside of the Roman Empire. It hadn't anything to do with language competitiveness, but with who was the conqueror and who was the conquered in history.

Also, I wouldn't put too much attention in the "R1b dominance" issue. If it was that black-and-white, Western Europe should be homogenously Basque, Celtic, Germanic or Romance, depending on what paradigm you prefer... :laughing:

a general answer (and not too affirmative)
TARANIS: spite your big knowledge about I-e languages, I don't think a -mb- evolution to >> -mm- would be impossible at all - nor the contrary when 'm' is followed by a "liquid" consonnant -m+r >> -mb+r (we have more than an example)- but I agree with you that Cymru<<Combrog has nothing in common with Cimmerian

Sorry, yes I made a mistake there. You are right that the development *mb > *mm isn't impossible at all(btw, I used the wording 'implausible'), rather it is the more probable evolution. What I actually was going to say is that the reverse development (*mm > *mb, since the Cimmerians are the older ethnic group, ca. 6th century BC) is unlikely.
 
...You're underestimating two things: first off, how much languages change over time. Neither any of the modern Celtic, nor any of the modern Germanic languages (especially not English!) is particularly representative of what Celtic and Germanic languages were like 2000 years ago.

Also, the reason why the Germanic languages 'won out' over the Celtic ones (in terms of distribution and number of speakers) is a simple one: the Roman Empire conquered most Celtic-speaking areas in Europe, the languages of these areas was replaced eventually with Latin. The Germanic speaking peoples were left outside of the Roman Empire. It hadn't anything to do with language competitiveness, but with who was the conqueror and who was the conquered in history...

You're right-- these languages have morphed a bunch in that time period. I was using only using modern English as an example of how a more direct language might win out over a more complex one. I do think ancient Germanic/Norse was more blunt and simple than the Celtic tongues of the same time.

And if the Roman victories apply to language choice, shouldn't we all be speaking Latin? The German princes never formed a great power block and basically ruled via a loose confederation of weak states (until you get to Hapsburgs).

But again I'm no language expert and this certainly isn't my area of expertise. (I did study Beowulf pretty intensely in college because I had a professor who was obsessed with it.)
 
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a general answer (and not too affirmative)

ZANIPOLO: what defines ethny if languages is discarded??? (even if I agree language is not the unique criteria) could you think that collective language changes could have occurred so easily at ancient times in populations that did not know writing?

Language has to be of little relevance, because as an example, we are communicating in English, yet neither of us is ethnically English.
Besides, If the 4500BC old Varna Culture could communicate with all peoples residing on the black sea peoples and also Danubian/balkan peoples and beyond, then it clearly means that in the ancient world the small vocabulary of tribes learned many different languages from different tribes.
 
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