Are they more Western or Southern European looking?

[curiouscat]

Spanish students from Andalusia

 

[Angela]

Just so we get the full picture:

Colegio Santa Teresa-Huelva

Have I made myself clear? This isn't theapricity. There will be no phenotype wars or cherry picking. Do you understand?

Find yourself a substantive topic.

Honestly, some banned members just can't help themselves. They just come back over and over again, doing the same things over and over again, no matter how often they're banned, until it's permanent. Then some of them go to the trouble of getting a new IP address so they can come back under a new name. Are neo-Nazi types masochists? Especially when the punishment comes from a woman?

 

[ihype02]

Have I made myself clear? This isn't theapricity. There will be no phenotype wars or cherry picking. Do you understand?

While the observations made with "classification" may be true to a certain degree, it is pseudoscience.

What we know from science is craniofacial and body/limb proportions and body breadth can change very quickly. What you see as a "certain" type might actually be a very recent phenomenon. Just like brachycephally in Europeans is rapidly disappearing (because of better nutrition) or with Dutch people being now among the tallest in Europe while they were one of the shortest a couple of centuries ago.

 

[MOESAN]

While the observations made with "classification" may be true to a certain degree, it is pseudoscience.

What we know from science is craniofacial and body/limb proportions and body breadth can change very quickly. What you see as a "certain" type might actually be a very recent phenomenon. Just like brachycephally in Europeans is rapidly disappearing (because of better nutrition) or with Dutch people being now among the tallest in Europe while they were one of the shortest a couple of centuries ago.

Always the same generalisation. To contradict some people other people simplify things and go to far on the opposite direction. 1- Dutch people were not among the shortest people of Europe. Very often I saw affirmations based on limited states (geographically and in time). 2 - The increase or decrease in stature slightly modifies some features (so not only the absolute sizes) but a short legged pops would not begin a long legged one some generations and the same for the contrary. Brachycephaly is decreasing today, but differences in CI remain between pops as a whole, only already close pops (close by their features) can fall together. Czech people of today remain more brachycephalic than Portugueses and they are not so bad fed. "Science says" what readers interpret!
Body proportions change but even these changes obey to some laws and not to total hazard.

 

[davef]

Spanish students from Andalusia

German, and would blend in at any Oktoberfest, happy now?

Sheesh...

 

[davef]

Downvote me again bro! Come on, Nordicist! You love it!! If you downvote enough of those who don't subscribe to your neo Nazi agenda, you may make it to Grand Wizard some day.

And curiouscat, I hope your mom doesn't catch you posting your garbage here lol. You're 45 and living in her basement, time to make a few changes.

 

[Northener]

Always the same generalisation. To contradict some people other people simplify things and go to far on the opposite direction. 1- Dutch people were not among the shortest people of Europe. Very often I saw affirmations based on limited states (geographically and in time). 2 - The increase or decrease in stature slightly modifies some features (so not only the absolute sizes) but a short legged pops would not begin a long legged one some generations and the same for the contrary. Brachycephaly is decreasing today, but differences in CI remain between pops as a whole, only already close pops (close by their features) can fall together. Czech people of today remain more brachycephalic than Portugueses and they are not so bad fed. "Science says" what readers interpret!
Body proportions change but even these changes obey to some laws and not to total hazard.

The strange thing is that about 1850 the Dutch were 1.64 (smallest after the French) and in 2015 184! So a combination of indeed genes (north Dutch are still taller than south Dutch) but also a lot of welfare, may be also due to heavy milk consume, and even some natural selection.....

See this picture from a regional paper:
http://www.dvhn.nl/archief/Hoe-zijn-wij-de-langste-mensen-geworden-20863608.html

 

[matadworf]

I'm confused. Southern or Western. How about both?

 

[Bergin]

This is just my opinion and taste, and also it is not that matters much but:

At a young age (till 30) i think all europeans are the same. After some age (above 35 -40 years) you might start notice differences. Northern skin is more fragile southern one, imo.

I always had a crush for blondies, but damn if they age badly.



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[Bergin]

To be back on topic: the pictures of the teachers would tell more if they are more southern or more western

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[Northener]

I'm confused. Southern or Western. How about both?

Of course both! And we are all mixes.

Yes, in Northern Europe on the average taller, more blue eyed and blond.....But that's never the whole story. It are averages. Said the brown eyed North Dutch

It are these kind of Nordicist obsessions (that don't exist solo in Northern Europe but also in Southern Europe) that keeps on troubling sincere curiosity for genetics....

May be time to confront the Nordicst with their Aryan obsession that the real Aryans (the Steppe) weren't the nazi propaganda poster people.

One of the most weirdest aspect of the nazi propaganda is this picture of Werner a "stereotype" Aryan in the eyes of the nazis:

This was Werner Goldberg, read his story:
http://www.tarses.com/blog/werner-goldberg-the-ideal-german-soldier/
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Goldberg

 

[MOESAN]

This is just my opinion and taste, and also it is not that matters much but:

At a young age (till 30) i think all europeans are the same. After some age (above 35 -40 years) you might start notice differences. Northern skin is more fragile southern one, imo.
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Not complete opposition to your thoughts but for me:
passed 10/11 years types or say 'differences' begin to affirm themselves more and more - they have their maximum between adolescence end and say 40/45 years age - they begin to loose strength after that.
they seem more marked among males than among females for the most. Females can change very much their look too (hair form, brow hair, epilation, lipstick design...)
some way of life (food and others) can skew the picture, as well as look (hair length, baird and so on) for supercial observation.
Just a thought based on my observations.

I always had a crush for blondies, but damn if they age badly.

 

[MOESAN]

The strange thing is that about 1850 the Dutch were 1.64 (smallest after the French) and in 2015 184! So a combination of indeed genes (north Dutch are still taller than south Dutch) but also a lot of welfare, may be also due to heavy milk consume, and even some natural selection.....

See this picture from a regional paper:
http://www.dvhn.nl/archief/Hoe-zijn-wij-de-langste-mensen-geworden-20863608.html

Helas, the link is no more valid, I regret it.
1m64 as a national mean?: I have some doubts. But around the 1850/1880 I red Swedish recrues were only 1m68 and Frenchies recrues rather around 1m65. I agree the Netherlands was (and is) not completely level for statures and that North (the tallest the Frisian I suppose) was taller than South. Flemings are shorter too as a mean, between Dutches and French people. But statures is a controversal question: states are not comparable: the recruted soldiers are as a mean the younger ones, and sometimes selected for their stature (see the 1m78 Galloway Scots showed as a "mean" the last century by some "scientists" when in fact the Scottish people were around 1m705 in the 50's!). I often red mean statures given by country from period to period, and saw results in complete contradiction with my personal feeling when I was travelling in Western Europe; I think a mean calculated over an half century is more sensible than a (partial) mean calculated on a small period. by instance on Wiki I red Frenchies was taller than Swedes, and Americans smaller than both: very funny indeed!!! What Americans? Which generation.
That said way of life, nutrition, (no) sport, drugs (linked to social classes too), all have an influence upon stature; the problem is that increase of stature can be the signal of better or worst health!
Geen probleem beste vriend. Mijn idee is dat Fransmen hebben altijd kleiner dan Nederlanders gewest (don't laugh of me, it was a try without handbook!). Nos vad deoc'h.

 

[Angela]

I don't think that skin type or fragility is necessarily related to hair color. I know a lot of dark haired Irish women who are wrinkled badly by the time they're in their thirties. It's not necessarily related to pigmentation either. I'm just as fair as they are, but I barely have any wrinkles at all, and the tone and elasticity of my skin are still basically what they always were. There are a lot of genes affecting these things of which we're not aware. I think skin "thickness" is one of them. That explains, for example, the fact that the East Asians don't seem to age as quickly as most Europeans, even when they are pretty fair skinned. My skin, likewise, is pretty thick, as health professionals who have given me injections tell me.

@Moesan,
I agree with your post number 12. Past 45-50 it's increasingly difficult to "guess" ethnicity, as it is with very young children.

 

[Bergin]

Yes, maybe connecting skin fragility with hair color was a long step.

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[Angela]

Of course both! And we are all mixes.

Yes, in Northern Europe on the average taller, more blue eyed and blond.....But that's never the whole story. It are averages. Said the brown eyed North Dutch

It are these kind of Nordicist obsessions (that don't exist solo in Northern Europe but also in Southern Europe) that keeps on troubling sincere curiosity for genetics....

May be time to confront the Nordicst with their Aryan obsession that the real Aryans (the Steppe) weren't the nazi propaganda poster people.

One of the most weirdest aspect of the nazi propaganda is this picture of Werner a "stereotype" Aryan in the eyes of the nazis:

This was Werner Goldberg, read his story:
http://www.tarses.com/blog/werner-goldberg-the-ideal-german-soldier/
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Goldberg

There's also a film called "Europa Europa" (based on a true story) in which a Jewish boy makes it into the SS. These people were clueless. They got out all their calipers and measured every part of his face and cranium, and concluded he had a bit of "Baltic" if I remember correctly, but accepted him.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099776/

I never understood the reasoning behind kidnapping "Aryan looking" children for adoption by German families either. Where was the guarantee that their children would also look Aryan even if they grew up to marry Germans? Not all Germans are blonde and blue-eyed either. The child could turn out to look more like the average of the ancestors of the adopted child. Plus, wasn't "Nordic" supposed to encompass personality traits too? What, did they think those traits "traveled" with the few snps for depigmentation?

Nonsense, all of it.

 

[Angela]

Yes, maybe connecting skin fragility with hair color was a long step.

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I did get your point, however. Perhaps it has to do with ethnicity more broadly.

I've always thought Charlize Theron is incredibly beautiful, but she really isn't aging well.

This is her at only 40:

She's lost muscle tone even in her arms and legs.

This is Salma Hayek at 50. In close-ups she has a few wrinkles at the sides of her mouth and eyes, but she's fifty, after all. I know women in their thirties who have older looking skin.

 

[davef]

Belief is always stronger than facts, yes?

I've been studying the second world war for years and what I always and still find amusing is how so many of these men obsessed with "fairness" of pigmentation and touting the physical superiority of the Aryans were short, rather dark, bespectacled, men, or grossly, obscenely fat, or otherwise ugly men who looked like accountants or clerks, the sort who as boys were probably bullied. Human psychology is infinitely fascinating.

I mean, by their own definitions of the term, do these look like fair ubermensch to anybody?

Goebels had a rather southern European if not Jewish look to him.

The same for Eichmann:

Streicher, that pig, looks Italian to me, unfortunately.

Hitler himself hardly looked the part.

Taken from another thread.

I was dying of laughter after seeing this post. Angela really brought to light how fraudulent and phony these top Nazi generals really were. Eichmann has a very Ashkenazim look in spite of his deranged wishes to exterminate all Jewry and ze früherer Hitler is a pencil neck with poor posture and tiny shoulders. As an advocate of tall, strong Germans with broad athletic shoulders, fast dash times and enough pectoral musculature to bench press 500 lbs, he doesn't quite fit his model...lol

 

[davef]

And Angela, is your look a common Tuscan "look"? I apologize in advance if I come off as perverse, but I find it rather attractive and I'd like to visit a Tuscan center (if there is such a thing) to find a girl with this features....as well as a quality personality on top!

 

[Northener]

There's also a film called "Europa Europa" (based on a true story) in which a Jewish boy makes it into the SS. These people were clueless. They got out all their calipers and measured every part of his face and cranium, and concluded he had a bit of "Baltic" if I remember correctly, but accepted him.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099776/

I never understood the reasoning behind kidnapping "Aryan looking" children for adoption by German families either. Where was the guarantee that their children would also look Aryan even if they grew up to marry Germans? Not all Germans are blonde and blue-eyed either. The child could turn out to look more like the average of the ancestors of the adopted child. Plus, wasn't "Nordic" supposed to encompass personality traits too? What, did they think those traits "traveled" with the few snps for depigmentation?

Nonsense, all of it.

In this respect there are more remarkable persons in Germany. Let's take the old Bundeskanzler Helmut Schmidt, see:
https://www.thejc.com/news/world/he...-who-had-jewish-ancestry-dies-aged-96-1.62172

Maybe some SNP that have affect on behavior are more represented in some populations. Like the "hunter" gene:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_vs._farmer_hypothesis

But the old physical anthropologist connected a whole range of behavioral things with phenotypes.....nonsens. Behavior and looks are differentiated, different SNP locations besides different environmental effects.