Aryan theory is a lie or not?

[Ygorcs]

XipeTotek, who is more semetic, an I1 male with three indo European grandparents and one semetic paternal grandfather, or a K male with three semetic grandparents and one indo European paternal grandfather?

Nice example, davef. Many people still rely too much on Y-DNA haplogroups. I can easily demonstrate that in less than 5 generations (~ 120 years) some 100% Asian man's descendants may become 97% European and yet still carry a typical Asian Y-DNA haplogroup. It's useless to base entire propositions just on Y-DNA, especially if you're talking about a generic haplogroup marker that dates from dozens of thousands of years ago, instead of a much more recent and precise clade.

 

[XipeTotek]

Not totally right. There are specific subclades of I2, G2 and J2 (mostly J2b) that also look connected with the Indo-European speakers and their expansion. Also, India is definitely not "totally R1a". You're again simplifying and generalizing too much. There is a whole lot of probably non-IE H, L, O and other haplogroups in India, as well as some relevant percentages of R2, J and G. Also, again, let me say that you're making anachronistic comparisons. You're trying to establish a lingusitic label related to a Bronze Age language (Proto-Indo-European) and put it into all descendants of the men who first had the R haplogroup, a process that happened some 25,000-30,000 years ago. There is a whole gap of 20,000-25,000 of unexplained genetic and linguistic evolution and differentiation in your hypothesis, that is not just a "small" drawback.Well, you can say that IJ spoke a Semitic language as much as you like, but don't be surprised that people won't take you seriously on that and probably on any other issue, because that statement demonstrates a fundamental lack of knowledge about either haplogroups, chronology of genetic evolution of populations and linguistics.

i still believe, Proto IJ hablogroup speakers speaking like a semitic language. and aryan invaders of R hablogroups, assimilate and change they are language. its sense to me.so why i cant see in indo european countries and india cant see IJ hablogroup.I hablogroups have yes because vikings doing relationship with indo european areas like a persia, rome, anatolia and middle easterns. if you know history.

 

[XipeTotek]

XipeTotek, who is more semetic, an I1 male with three indo European grandparents and one semetic paternal grandfather, or a K male with three semetic grandparents and one indo European paternal grandfather?

i cant see any different with arabian males and nordic males same hairy body, physical property. only hair colour is different.

because they all come from middle east IJ

but real europeans different from them. they are come from central asia. and close to native americans

i still believe european first peoples are nordics and speaking semitic language to come aryan invaders.

 

[Ygorcs]

i cant see any different with arabian males and nordic males same hairy body, physical property. only hair colour is different.

because they all come from middle east IJ

but real europeans different from they are come from central asia. and close to native americans

Dude, the "real Europeans", the reeeeally indigenous peoples of Europe, are exactly those IJ folks. Why do you think the overwehlming majority of the ancient DNA from Europe before the Neolithic belongs to haplogroup I and even some to J (as one Karelian J Mesolithic man)? Also, the "Nordic males" are in general, among all European peoples, those that carry a highest percentage of autosomal admixture that looks similar to that of the earliest steppe IE (Yamna). Haplogroups do not determine anyone's overall ancestry. You're deeply misinformed, sorry to say that.

 

[XipeTotek]

Dude, the "real Europeans", the reeeeally indigenous peoples of Europe, are exactly those IJ folks. Why do you think the overwehlming majority of the ancient DNA from Europe before the Neolithic belongs to haplogroup I and even some to J (as one Karelian J Mesolithic man)? Also, the "Nordic males" are in general, among all European peoples, those that carry a highest percentage of autosomal admixture that looks similar to that of the earliest steppe IE (Yamna). Haplogroups do not determine anyone's overall ancestry. You're deeply misinformed, sorry to say that.

europeans cant be connected with IJ semitic hablogroup this is so absurd.

europeans and their languages only connected with be r hablogroups.

explain me why in india dont have IJ hablogroup what are you talking about.

nordics are first european peoples in the europe, indo-european speakers go to europe so many many years later.

and i still think nordic real language is not indo european.

if you know oden and their tribes they are come from scythia(tyrkland) or central asia, and teach to vikings runic alphabet and change the language

and i think nordic males very very different from other european males. they look like a arabs and masculine like a half semitic italian and spanish.

other real europeans not like them because they come from central asia/siberia

so this is show for me why IJ hablogroup peoples different than R hablogroups people.

i know in the soon i can see proto-vikings languages are close to semitic language in the science news

 

[Ygorcs]

europeans cant be connected with IJ semitic hablogroup this is so absurd.

europeans and their languages only connected with be r hablogroups.

explain me why in india dont have IJ hablogroup what are you talking about.

nordics are first european peoples in the europe, indo-european speakers go to europe so many many years later.

and i still think nordic real language is not indo european.

if you know oden and their tribes they are come from scythia(tyrkland) or central asia, and teach to vikings runic alphabet and change the language

You're confusing Indo-Europeans with Europeans. You're confusing genetics with languages. You're confusing overall ancestry with Y-DNA haplogroups alone. You're confusing extremely distinct historic periods, talking about old Paleolithic haplogroups like K and IJ while you're discussing Bronze Age expansions of language families. You're confusing a lot of things, honestly.

 

[Ygorcs]

europeans cant be connected with IJ semitic hablogroup this is so absurd.

explain me why in india dont have IJ hablogroup what are you talking about.

nordics are first european peoples in the europe, indo-european speakers go to europe so many many years later.

and i still think nordic real language is not indo european.

if you know oden and their tribes they are come from scythia(tyrkland) or central asia, and teach to vikings runic alphabet and change the language

and i think nordic males very very different from other european males. they look like a arabs and masculine like a half semitic italian and spanish

Y-DNA haplogroups don't speak languages. Peoples speak different languages.

As for India not having any IJ, what are you talking about? IJ is I+J, and if you take that into account several regions of India have more than 20% or even more than 30% of IJ due to high prevalence of J subclades.

 

[XipeTotek]

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i cant see any different with arabian males and nordic males same hairy body, physical property. only hair colour is different.

because they all come from middle east IJ


but real europeans different from them. they are come from central asia. and close to native americans

i still believe european first peoples are nordics and speaking semitic language to come aryan invaders.

IJ and P Q R so different you dont know anything. if IJ real indo-europeans whats PQR hablogroups?

i think now real aryans are IJ and later r hablogroup assimiliated by IJ aryans, because they must be connected with K,O,P hablogroups language(chinese,turkish,uralic,native american) they are come from same ancestors of K hablogroups.

this is explain everything now.

europeans proto languages are asiatic and later IJ change the R hablogroups language.

its explain to me, i think about K hablogroup create Q P R and O (all asians and europeans.) and all hablogroup of peoples K languages are similar with asiatic language, O japanese, O korean, Q turkic, Q native american, N uralic. only one hablogroup speaking like a older IJ language. but R born in central asia with native americans? why they use older language from IJ? IJ more older than R1 and R2(WHY THEY USED OLDER IJ LANGUAGE?) okey i understand now. real aryans are IJ and r hablo groups europeans assimiliated by them.

may be vikings(I) and rome empire(J) change the language of R1 europeans or india invaded by IJ aryans

 

[Sile]

K2 is also the old name for T.
Now I’m confuse.

K1 is now the branch of TL from end of 2014
K2b goes to the P branch, then M, S, R etc
and
K2a goes into the N and O group

 

[Sile]

yes but firstly created in the iran and they are ancestors of all euroasian peoples. (only not vikings) K < L M N O P P< R Q < R1a(east europe) R1b(west europ) R2(indians) and Q (native americans)
Only mongoloid C(mongols) and D(tibet)not connected with iran and aryans.
also vikings come from IJ hablogroup
J = semitics, anatolians, mediterrenaid
I = nordics, vikings, balkans
IJ cant be connected with aryans or indo europeans. because they are early group than PQR and indo europeans.
who can explain to me I J hablogrop is aryan or not? if they are/ they must be real aryans and semitic peoples too. because they are earlier than indo europeans. but you can say aryans only r1a and r1b and r2 i can say anatolians, greeks hitites, rome empire and persians are not aryan because they come from J hablogroups

you forget that K1 produced the haplogroup LT which has more than 30 SNPs..........how long was haplogroup LT together before splitting into L and T haplogroups

the K2 has only 1 SNP before forming the P haplogroup

 

[Sile]

yes but firstly created in the iran and they are ancestors of all euroasian peoples. (only not vikings) K < L M N O P P< R Q < R1a(east europe) R1b(west europ) R2(indians) and Q (native americans)
Only mongoloid C(mongols) and D(tibet)not connected with iran and aryans.
also vikings come from IJ hablogroup
J = semitics, anatolians, mediterrenaid
I = nordics, vikings, balkans
IJ cant be connected with aryans or indo europeans. because they are early group than PQR and indo europeans.
who can explain to me I J hablogrop is aryan or not? if they are/ they must be real aryans and semitic peoples too. because they are earlier than indo europeans. but you can say aryans only r1a and r1b and r2 i can say anatolians, greeks hitites, rome empire and persians are not aryan because they come from J hablogroups

J cannot be Semitic as it was "born" north of the Zargos mountains and semitic was never north of the Zargos mountains at that time.......

IMO IJ split from each other in the south caucasus
and
TL on the border of Iran and Turkmenistan

 

[Ygorcs]

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IJ and P Q R so different you dont know anything. if IJ real indo-europeans whats PQR hablogroups?

I didn't say IJ are the real Indo-Europeans. You probably understood nothing that I said. I said that it is totally fruitless to try to assign a Bronze Age language family to Palaeolithic haplogroups that appeared dozens of thousands of years before that and which were associated with totally different cultures that we don't even know if they left an unbroken chain of linguistic and cultural descendants. That's so obvious that I'll leave the rest of the conclusion for yourself. Sorry to be killjoy, but the truth is that you will never know what language was spoken by the first people with a IJ or a R mutation marker 20,000 or 30,000 years ago. And everyone who knows a modicum of genetics AND linguistics knows why.

 

[XipeTotek]

J cannot be Semitic as it was "born" north of the Zargos mountains and semitic was never north of the Zargos mountains at that time.......

IMO IJ split from each other in the south caucasus
and
TL on the border of Iran and Turkmenistan

ok now F G (Georgian) H I (nordics) J(anatolians) K P Q(native americans,turks) R(europeans) L M N(ural) O(japanese all speaking common proto indo european languages on the ANCESTOR OF F

all that people in the ancestors on F speaking common proto indo european language. after when Q N O go to asia they are assimilated by from mongols c and dibets d.

but europeans R dont assimiliated from mongols and tibets because they dont so many relationship with tibets and mongols.

real aryans come from ancestors of F and G H I J more close them.

K L M N O(Chinese,Japan,Korean P Q(Native Americans,Turk R(West European,East European, indians) all assimiliated by earlier asians mongol C and tibets D but except for R

i explain this hablogroups with language because languages come from 50.000 years ago from africa like hablogroups and peoples okey?

 

[Jovialis]

This thread is closed, but judgment is pending.