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K12 Autosomal map : Mediterranean admixture (from Dodecad)

Those GED math results are just approximations. They do not mean your Jewish. They mean that you are Italian, with a DNA profile resembling that of a Jew. Could mean that one of your grandparents is part Calabrian, or Cypriot. Maybe they were Syrian christian migrants. Could have nothing to do with Jews. Maybe the test is bias to show South Italians as "less European", who knows.
 
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Italkim aren't Sephardic. They follow what is called the "Italian rite", not the Sephardic rite, and in rituals they speak a Judeo-Italian language, not the Ladino of the Sephardi. There's even a division between northern Italian Italkim and the Roman Italkim. The legend is that the Italkim have been in Italy since the time of the Romans, perhaps even from the time of the Maccabees.

Italian Jews are made up of the Italkim plus Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews who moved to Italy later, some as early as the 1300s however. (IBD sharing is extremely high between all the Jewish groups.)

The Italkim plot closer to Middle Eastern Jews than do the Ashkenazim or even the Sephardim. Perhaps they are slightly less "mixed" than the Jews who went into Spain and Central Europe?

Take a look at this admixture plot:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TAirf0c_k3I/AAAAAAAACaw/M8qf6gJN4GM/s1600/structure-jews.jpg

structure-jews.jpg


This PCA shows it too:
pc-jews.jpg
 
Ashkenazim are genetically a mixed population of Levant/Anatolian originated genetic profile later mixed with Greco-Romance which shows them plotting with South-Eastern European groups (Greeks, Sicilians, etc.)

Ashkenazim are also highly inbreed due to lack of recent gene flow from other groups so their genetic is drifted from both Europeans and Middle Easterners.

price2008_fig3b.png
 
The real question is how much has the genetic drift effected the plotting position, and overall Genetic results. I think that the Levantine Greek hybrid population moved into Central and Northern Europe, and interbred with BOTH Slavic/Germanic as well as Middle Eastern immigrants. Than they ended up isolating themselves after the population was somewhat diverse.
 
Where do you people get this stuff? More importantly, how can you so arrogantly proclaim as a certainty things for which there is as yet no proof?

NO ONE KNOWS PRECISELY HOW THE ASHKENAZIM FORMED, and until we get ancient genomes from the Near East during the first millennium BC and the Roman era, and the early post Roman era in Europe as well it's all just speculation.

The only thing which is certain is that Elhaik's ideas are nonsense.

Take advantage of the excellent search engine here and read the numerous threads that have been posted on the subject. That might cure some of this misplaced, arrogant, certainty.
 
Seanp said:
Ashkenazim are genetically a mixed population of Levant/Anatolian originated genetic profile later mixed with Greco-Romance which shows them plotting with South-Eastern European groups (Greeks, Sicilians, etc.)

Ashkenazim are also highly inbreed due to lack of recent gene flow from other groups so their genetic is drifted from both Europeans and Middle Easterners.

price2008_fig3b.png
Click to expand...
Yeah, in this map above their plot is a bit more isolated than Greeks, Italians (afaik in that study they are from the Southern mainland and from Sicily).
 
New Englander said:
The real question is how much has the genetic drift effected the plotting position, and overall Genetic results. I think that the Levantine Greek hybrid population moved into Central and Northern Europe, and interbred with BOTH Slavic/Germanic as well as Middle Eastern immigrants. Than they ended up isolating themselves after the population was somewhat diverse.
Click to expand...

The North European ancestry in Ashkenazi Jews are quite low, Ashkenazim are basically the same as Sephardi Jews with 10-15% more extra European. As far as i know they didn't mix with any recent ME populations except some Ashkenazi who mixed with Bukharian/Caucasian Jews in Russia.
 
^ Thanks for the link.

Interesting post from oreo cookie:

This right here is why people assume that Ashkenazim have Italian DNA. Because Sicilians and Ashkenazim on PCA plots, are both roughly halfway between North Italians and modern day Levantines, people say "well, Ashkenazim are Levantine on the male side, North Italian on the female side, and thus plot like Sicilians when you mix it all up." But Sicilians have very low IBD sharing with the Levant, which implies that West Asian input into Sicily occurred in the Bronze Age rather than from Phoenicians or anything more recent, and that the Sikels, Sicanians, and Elymians at the time of contact with Phoenicians had already been genetically shifted toward West Asia.

At this point, Ashkenazim would not have existed... they'd still be Israelites. My guess is that ancient Israelites were probably closer to Druze than to Lebanese Arabs or Palestinians, and thus we should look at Druze or Cypriots as a good proxy, which means that you'd need closer to 1/3 South European admixture, not 1/2, to explain European Jews' plotting today. They only land in Sicily because Sicilians have enough West Asian affinity that they drift away from the core European cluster, it's not due to any directly shared ancestry. The same would be true of Cretans, who also are very close to Ashkenazim autosomally.

IBD sharing, above all, reflects how recent the exchange took place. Sicilians DO have high IBD sharing with Maghrebi people, implying that the North African input into the population is more recent. I am unclear if Ashkenazim have the same.

Not that this is scientific, but I have seen a few Druze results on GEDmatch and compared to Lebanese Arabs, they shift toward Iberia, Sardinia, etc. and their overall closest population is Cyprus.
 
Sicilians DO have high IBD sharing with Maghrebi people, implying that the North African input into the population is more recent.
Click to expand...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...PIjqfzdN-zH9R-9C_vwcbciCw/edit#gid=1260717827

"HIgh IBD between NW Africa and Italy
South Italy(inclu. Sardinia) gets extremly high IBD with NW Africa, suggesting NW African ancestry.
Although other Italians also get much higher IBD with NW Africa than with West Asia, much of it is .25+
If anything this points towards European ancestry in NW Africa."

Calabrians, Lucanians and Sardinians get also similar amount of IBD share with NW Africans and those lands were not under muslim invasion. It's more logic to think that most of the IBD sharing has to do with the Roman colonization to NW Africa and many Sicilian muslims expelled to modern Tunisia rather than the opposite. Otherwise the sharing must be limitated only for Sicily.

But Sicilians have very low IBD sharing with the Levant, which implies that West Asian input into Sicily occurred in the Bronze Age rather than from Phoenicians or anything more recent, and that the Sikels, Sicanians, and Elymians at the time of contact with Phoenicians had already been genetically shifted toward West Asia
Click to expand...
The West Asian shift is not again only exclusivity of Sicily but also for the rest of South Italy, impossible to calculate an important Phoenician contribution in our gene-pool since they came here only for commercial purposes and only in two isolated and coastal emporiums in an ocean of Siculi, Sicani, Elimi, Morgeti and Greek and later Roman colonizers. And these last made an ethnic cleansing of Punic ethnicity from all over the Western Mediterranean after the three Punic wars.

Bronze age introgression waves seems to be confermated by the last genetic studies by the way as well as older times (neolithic):

However, the estimated age for Sicilian and Southern-Italian J1 haplotypes refers to the end of the Bronze Age (3261?1345 YBP), thus suggesting more ancient contributions from the East.
Click to expand...
However, sub-lineages of haplogroup J2 have been also associated with the Neolithic colonization of mainland Greece, Crete and Southern Italy [52], and our TMRCA estimates for J2-subhaplogroups (ranging from 3271?1157 YBP to 3767?1332 YBP) cannot exclude an earlier arrival of at least some of the J2 chromosomes in Sicily and Southern-Italy during Neolithic times.
Click to expand...

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0096074
 
Mine Dodecad V3:
# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 31.55
2 West_European 27.34
3 West_Asian 18
4 East_European 13.56
5 Southwest_Asian 8.48
6 Northwest_African 0.52
7 Southeast_Asian 0.42
8 Northeast_Asian 0.12
I think that the Mediterranean admixture is a little bit exaggerated in Macedonia.
Hardly any ethnic Macedonian have over 40 percent Mediterranean admixture.
As you can see, mine is 31.55!
 
Decode v3
East euro 12.49
West euro 35.94
Mediterranean 28.76
West asian 14.68
South asian. 90
Northeast asian 0.30
Southwest Asian 4.79
Northwest african 2.13
Sicilian Croatian Slovenian german/french, british/irish

I guess they are representative?
 

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Dodecad V3:

Population[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"] [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_European[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]15.42[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_European[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]23.31[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]33.03[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Neo_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]21.00[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.85[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Northeast_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.52[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Southeast_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"]- [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.84[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Southwest_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]4.73[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Northwest_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.20[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Palaeo_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.11[/TD]

My folks migrated to the Western Thrace region from the Eastern Thrace region of Turkey during the Great Population Exchange of 1922. They only moved about 15 km to the other side of the Evros/Maritsa River.
 
Eurogenes K13:


[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Population[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff, align: right"] [/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]North_Atlantic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]19.45[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Baltic[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]19.80[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]19.27[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]15.01[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Med[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]22.41[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Red_Sea[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.88[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.67[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]East_Asian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.51[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Siberian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.33[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Amerindian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.28[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Oceanian[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.28[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Northeast_African[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.54[/TD]

[TD="bgcolor: #ffffff"]Sub-Saharan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: right"]0.57[/TD]
 
Wouldn't Med just represent Early Neolithic movement into Europe, while the Caucasian/West Asian represent a later migration of similar peoples? And the South Western Asian could be in the last 3,000 years?

Western European could be a mix old Europe (HG) and Indo European, with HG component being larger, while Eastern Europe having a larger Indo European percentage.

Population

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Mediterranean[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]31.37[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_European[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]24.81[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]22.11[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Southwest_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]10.52[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]East_European[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]8.11[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Northwest_African[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]1.54[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]South_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]1.15[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Neo_African[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.25[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Southeast_Asian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.14[/TD]
 
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