Politics Balkanian disagreements.

[Angela]

I've never said that we had Western freedoms. We've had different and sometimes even bigger freedoms. The problem is that you have your realm of what you think is important, and you measure my freedom according to your gauge. Likewise a man could come from Sharia country into US, and say that there are no freedoms there because he can't marry 5 females.


Yugoslavia is currently an occupied country. Who on Earth would come here in 1942? People escaped the war you organized. Croatia and Serbia don't even exist by the book - they have no sovereignty.

In fact it is totally opposite in theory. Western societies function on strong gap between upper and lower classes, while communism is promoting what is called uravnilovka. You know that very well, you ranted against it in previous post. Anyhow, you're making this like people here don't want to work. They want to work, but not for you and your wealth.


Serbia requires nothing of me. I'm not even Serbian. I'm here just because this is one of the strong anti-nazi posts in Europe.


I've never in my life read a single Russian textbook. I don't even speak Russian.


I would be glad if you and your NATO countryman were really out of here. Just simply out with their ideology, advises, weapons, laws, partitions, warmongering, crazy political ideas, embassies...

I know I said I wouldn't do this, but...

Angela:I have the freedom to express any political opinion, racial opinion, or religious opinion I choose, even the most controversial, and the government can't interfere, so long as I don't advocate any one's injury or death. I have the freedom to read anything, published anywhere, advocating any point of view whatsoever. I have the freedom to vote for anyone I choose, and I also have the freedom to become involved in the political process and advocate for my political beliefs, even if that takes the form of advocating for extreme socialism/communism or promoting extreme right wing political beliefs. I have the freedom to believe in God or not believe in God, and to worship in any way I see fit, so long as I don't hurt other people. I have the freedom to marry anyone I choose. I have the freedom to have children or not have them, as I like, because I have access to birth control. I also have the freedom to have as many children as I choose. I have the freedom, subject to checks to insure my sanity and that I don't have a criminal record, to have a hunting gun, or, if I work in a dangerous profession, to carry a gun for my protection.

Ike:Here? Every single one of them

It helps if people remember what they've said...Now you're saying Yugoslavia DIDN'T have all these freedoms. OK, glad we've got that straight.

Now, what DIFFERENT freedoms did they have in Yugoslavia? The freedom to oppress anyone who didn't speak their language or follow their religion or accept second class citizenship doesn't count.

You can't distort the common meaning of words in order to change black into white. So, the definition of freedom which everyone understands can't suddenly become the freedom to oppress other people. By the same reasoning, dirty old men in some break away sect of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints doesn't have the freedom, in a civilized society, to marry a succession of fourteen year old girls and hound their own underage young sons out of the group so they'll have less competition.

FREEDOM can't be defined as the LICENSE to ABUSE other human beings.)

Anyone who says that there wasn't a class system in Communist countries is prevaricating. There was a huge difference between the way that the upper level Party members lived and the way that the rest of the population lived, from different housing, to different cars (and many people didn't have cars), to different stores for food, clothing, you name it, to different health care. Not only do we have documents; we have the testimony of people who saw it, including me. You get to have your own opinions, but you don't get to make up your own facts.

Which leads me to that whopper about the west starting the war in Yugoslavia. War breaks out periodically in the Balkans because its inhabitants cling to their tribal animosities and grievances and can't refrain from turning to rape and murder to redress those grievances. It's been going on for a thousand years, long before the U.S. even existed. Anyone who has ever picked up a history book knows that.

Besides, what strategic interest do you think the US had in destabilizing Yugoslavia at that time, of all places? T

Also, to be perfectly honest, I'm beyond tired of all this internet dishonesty. I can understand not giving out personal IDs given the nutjobs with some computer skills who frequent the Web, but why do some people not even have the courage to admit their real nationality? We've got Stormfront Spaniards all over the internet pretending to be every nationality under the sun, even maybe people from the Caucasus, and now we've supposedly got a non-Russian, non-Serbian, carrying the banner for Yugoslavian Communism and Serbian ethnic purity.

(By the way, you don't have to read the Russian books themselves, you just have to be indoctrinated into their world view.)

This one is a winner too...Serbia is one of the last bastions of anti-Nazism?

Do you even know the definition of Nazism, economically and politically? Of Fascism? Where are the Fascist countries of Europe? Precisely detail how Britain is like Nazi Germany. This smacks to me of the garbage coming out of the Soviet controlled Ukraine. Everybody who is against Communism is a Nazi. The only European countries in the last twenty five years who have behaved like Nazis are the countries in the Balkans.

You know what, forget it. I'm not learning anything here, you certainly have no interest in any different point of view, and most importantly, I'm getting really depressed that people still actually think like this in this day and age. This time, I really am out.

 

[LeBrok]

FREEDOM can't be defined as the LICENSE to ABUSE other human beings.)

Amen, that's we have charter of human rights in the West.

Anyone who says that there wasn't a class system in Communist countries is prevaricating. There was a huge difference between the way that the upper level Party members lived and the way that the rest of the population lived, from different housing, to different cars (and many people didn't have cars), to different stores for food, clothing, you name it, to different health care. Not only do we have documents; we have the testimony of people who saw it, including me. You get to have your own opinions, but you don't get to make up your own facts.

90% of people didn't have cars, and access to stores only for privileged class.

Which leads me to that whopper about the west starting the war in Yugoslavia. War breaks out periodically in the Balkans because its inhabitants cling to their tribal animosities and grievances and can't refrain from turning to rape and murder to redress those grievances. It's been going on for a thousand years, long before the U.S. even existed. Anyone who has ever picked up a history book knows that.

Surprisingly, this "good" socialist system didn't cured these tribal animosities!

Besides, what strategic interest do you think the US had in destabilizing Yugoslavia at that time, of all places? T

Good point. World didn't care for Yugoslavia till they started their own privet domestic massacre in Europe.

Also, to be perfectly honest, I'm beyond tired of all this internet dishonesty. I can understand not giving out personal IDs given the nutjobs with some computer skills who frequent the Web, but why do some people not even have the courage to admit their real nationality? We've got Stormfront Spaniards all over the internet pretending to be every nationality under the sun, even maybe people from the Caucasus, and now we've supposedly got a non-Russian, non-Serbian, carrying the banner for Yugoslavian Communism and Serbian ethnic purity.

True. Ike, the soldier of the truth, is afraid to mention his ethnicity. All we know he is not Serbian.

(By the way, you don't have to read the Russian books themselves, you just have to be indoctrinated into their world view.)

Soviet books were translated into Serbian.

This one is a winner too...Serbia is one of the last bastions of anti-Nazism?

The way they behaved points to otherwise.

Do you even know the definition of Nazism, economically and politically? Of Fascism? Where are the Fascist countries of Europe? Precisely detail how Britain is like Nazi Germany. This smacks to me of the garbage coming out of the Soviet controlled Ukraine. Everybody who is against Communism is a Nazi.

Exactly the Soviet definition of Fascism.

You know what, forget it. I'm not learning anything here, you certainly have no interest in any different point of view, and most importantly, I'm getting really depressed that people still actually think like this in this day and age. This time, I really am out.

I feel the same.

 

[Ike]

I know I said I wouldn't do this, but...

It helps if people remember what they've said...Now you're saying Yugoslavia DIDN'T have all these freedoms. OK, glad we've got that straight.

No, I didn't say that, sorry. We had all of those. There are some others we didn't have, like transgender parades, etc.. Though, I could only agree about gun carrying, it was turned down at some point, so that people here don't carry weapons on the streets. Not much of a freedom from my point of view, I personally feel safer that way.

Now, what DIFFERENT freedoms did they have in Yugoslavia? The freedom to oppress anyone who didn't speak their language or follow their religion or accept second class citizenship doesn't count.

No, not that. Never have I heard of that one here. There was no Yugoslav religion or Yugoslav language. No one was opressed in that way. In fact it was the opposite.

You can't distort the common meaning of words in order to change black into white. So, the definition of freedom which everyone understands can't suddenly become the freedom to oppress other people. By the same reasoning, dirty old men in some break away sect of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints doesn't have the freedom, in a civilized society, to marry a succession of fourteen year old girls and hound their own underage young sons out of the group so they'll have less competition.

FREEDOM can't be defined as the LICENSE to ABUSE other human beings.)

Why are you putting words in my mouth? No need for that, we're not in high school, and I won't fall in trap and start acting defensive. I've never said anything like that, so I don't feel the need to answer any of those.

Anyone who says that there wasn't a class system in Communist countries is prevaricating. There was a huge difference between the way that the upper level Party members lived and the way that the rest of the population lived, from different housing, to different cars (and many people didn't have cars), to different stores for food, clothing, you name it, to different health care. Not only do we have documents; we have the testimony of people who saw it, including me. You get to have your own opinions, but you don't get to make up your own facts.

I'm not evading anything. We all here know what the system was. It was not quite like you describe it, but that's not the point. The point is, it was somewhat bad, but yours is much worse.

Which leads me to that whopper about the west starting the war in Yugoslavia. War breaks out periodically in the Balkans because its inhabitants cling to their tribal animosities and grievances and can't refrain from turning to rape and murder to redress those grievances. It's been going on for a thousand years, long before the U.S. even existed. Anyone who has ever picked up a history book knows that.

Ok, I expected that you won't admit that you're supporting your nazi and murderous government. I am just not sure whether you really don't know they are, or you're just making fun of me.

Besides, what strategic interest do you think the US had in destabilizing Yugoslavia at that time, of all places?

I don't know You live in America? Then explain me, why did you US do it? Was this to support peace and democracy?


1. "On 18 March 1992, all three sides signed the agreement; Alija Izetbegović for the Bosniaks, Radovan Karadžić for the Serbs and Mate Boban for the Croats.
On 28 March 1992, after a meeting with US ambassador to Yugoslavia Warren Zimmermann in Sarajevo, Izetbegović withdrew his signature and declared his opposition to any division of Bosnia."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_...Cutileiro_plan


2. Second time in 1995, when Owen-Stoltenberg plan was in question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUuh...youtu.be&t=25m

Also, to be perfectly honest, I'm beyond tired of all this internet dishonesty. I can understand not giving out personal IDs given the nutjobs with some computer skills who frequent the Web, but why do some people not even have the courage to admit their real nationality? We've got Stormfront Spaniards all over the internet pretending to be every nationality under the sun, even maybe people from the Caucasus, and now we've supposedly got a non-Russian, non-Serbian, carrying the banner for Yugoslavian Communism and Serbian ethnic purity.

Not more tired than me, what you can probably conclude from my answers.
Ok, let me get defensive a little, since you insist on it so much If I say that Serbia is definitely not ethnically pure, will it make you stop making up things about me and what I say? Ok, I said it. Do I have to say that I'm not a Serbian and that Serbia is a sh**hole? That I hate Serbians as much as you? Though, that can be argued with, but let's say yes?

(By the way, you don't have to read the Russian books themselves, you just have to be indoctrinated into their world view.)

Sorry, but I don't read book, watch TV or read newspaper. Never have spoken to Russians, and don't have any close family members that I spoke seriously with, that is a member of a Communist party. I also don't advocate Communism, but you simply refuse to understand that, because you like it better when you can attack me on false premises.

This one is a winner too...Serbia is one of the last bastions of anti-Nazism?

Well, since you're seeing your NATO pact a democratic organization, I guess we won't agree on this one. We are in war with each other on that subject.

Do you even know the definition of Nazism, economically and politically? Of Fascism?

Yes, just write down how US behave, and you'll see nazism 2.0. It's evolved and improved.

Where are the Fascist countries of Europe? Precisely detail how Britain is like Nazi Germany. This smacks to me of the garbage coming out of the Soviet controlled Ukraine. Everybody who is against Communism is a Nazi. The only European countries in the last twenty five years who have behaved like Nazis are the countries in the Balkans.

Exactly that way. Hiding behind the pretense of spreading democracy while in fact spreading death and destruction. That's how Hitler behaved.

You know what, forget it. I'm not learning anything here, you certainly have no interest in any different point of view, and most importantly, I'm getting really depressed that people still actually think like this in this day and age. This time, I really am out.

Good. We got a deal. I really have no more strength to talk same things over and over again with you. You've seen something on TV, and now you think you know it better than people who have actually been here. Come here and be a witness yourself, if you're not afraid of your imaginary world falling into pieces. That's the best thing you could do.

 

[Ike]

Good point. World didn't care for Yugoslavia till they started their own privet domestic massacre in Europe.

Oh, LeBrok. Enough with your demagogy. You've sold your soul for a small amount of silver

 

[LeBrok]

Oh, LeBrok. Enough with your demagogy. You've sold your soul for a small amount of silver

What Baer?

 

[Piro Ilir]

I've never said that we had Western freedoms. We've had different and sometimes even bigger freedoms. The problem is that you have your realm of what you think is important, and you measure my freedom according to your gauge. Likewise a man could come from Sharia country into US, and say that there are no freedoms there because he can't marry 5 females.


Yugoslavia is currently an occupied country. Who on Earth would come here in 1942? People escaped the war you organized. Croatia and Serbia don't even exist by the book - they have no sovereignty.

In fact it is totally opposite in theory. Western societies function on strong gap between upper and lower classes, while communism is promoting what is called uravnilovka. You know that very well, you ranted against it in previous post. Anyhow, you're making this like people here don't want to work. They want to work, but not for you and your wealth.


Serbia requires nothing of me. I'm not even Serbian. I'm here just because this is one of the strong anti-nazi posts in Europe.


I've never in my life read a single Russian textbook. I don't even speak Russian.


I would be glad if you and your NATO countryman were really out of here. Just simply out with their ideology, advises, weapons, laws, partitions, warmongering, crazy political ideas, embassies...

In your first paragraph, are you talking about sheikhs? Ask the women of sheikhs if they feel free in Saudi Arabia. [emoji57] Your example fails . The Saudi Arabia is dictatorial state. The people there don't feels free. The majority at least.

 

[Piro Ilir]

I want. A wall towards you. I don't like you, and I don't want you anywhere near.
And I know why you don't want. So that you could infiltrate more Muslim terrorists here.


If the right reason is to think exactly like them, and do exactly what USians tell them to do, than I agree with you. Poor American workers had to produce so much napalm and Agent Orange just to convince people they would be better if they do what is told.

You mean I am a terrorist? Where exactly you think should be built the wall? Can you draw it. What do you think about Vucic? What is your ethnicity? Are you a Serb, or you are Serb of Bosnia?
Whether with you or without you, we will build a democratic Balkan without walls.
USA is the new Roman empire.

[emoji562]

 

[Piro Ilir]

I am not wait something correct from b....la,
Greece belongs to the winners countries of WW2 which army and King did not surrender but travel to Egypt EL Alamein,
Greece and France are considered same level winners that lost the land but did not surrender
Greece is the only country fought against 4 countries of Axis Italy Germany Bulgaria Albania, and also at Egypt Italy and Deutshland
the first victory of Allies was not done British, neither France neither Russia Neither USA,
it was done by Greeks.

and big powers USSR and USA rewards us with civil war and dictatorship

1- British fleet saved the Greece from the communist army. Be thankful to them. 2- Albania was never part of the Nazis alliance. King Zog never abdicated.
About the Nazis collaboration if the moderators allow me I am bringing some photos from the WWII in Greece. The brotherhood between Greek orthodox priests and Nazis officers.

28000 Albanian partisans were killed by the fascists during the WWII. The population of Albania was 700000 inhabitants. These statistics are known officially by the world.

From your posts you looks an anti German. Please, stop taking their money to pay the Greeks large pensions.

 

[Ike]

What Baer?

Stop watching TV and read a book on this subject once in a while.

In your first paragraph, are you talking about sheikhs? Ask the women of sheikhs if they feel free in Saudi Arabia. [emoji57] Your example fails . The Saudi Arabia is dictatorial state. The people there don't feels free. The majority at least.

Nope, my example stands firmly. The problem is you just don't want to understand it.

You mean I am a terrorist? Where exactly you think should be built the wall? Can you draw it. What do you think about Vucic? What is your ethnicity? Are you a Serb, or you are Serb of Bosnia?
Whether with you or without you, we will build a democratic Balkan without walls.
USA is the new Roman empire.

[emoji562]

Yes, we know that. It behaves very similar.

1- British fleet saved the Greece from the communist army. Be thankful to them. 2- Albania was never part of the Nazis alliance. King Zog never abdicated.
About the Nazis collaboration if the moderators allow me I am bringing some photos from the WWII in Greece. The brotherhood between Greek orthodox priests and Nazis officers.

.....

28000 Albanian partisans were killed by the fascists during the WWII. The population of Albania was 700000 inhabitants. These statistics are known officially by the world.
From your posts you looks an anti German. Please, stop taking their money to pay the Greeks large pensions.

What's this got to do with current US invasion and destruction of Balkans?

 

[Piro Ilir]

I know I said I wouldn't do this, but...



It helps if people remember what they've said...Now you're saying Yugoslavia DIDN'T have all these freedoms. OK, glad we've got that straight.

Now, what DIFFERENT freedoms did they have in Yugoslavia? The freedom to oppress anyone who didn't speak their language or follow their religion or accept second class citizenship doesn't count.

You can't distort the common meaning of words in order to change black into white. So, the definition of freedom which everyone understands can't suddenly become the freedom to oppress other people. By the same reasoning, dirty old men in some break away sect of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints doesn't have the freedom, in a civilized society, to marry a succession of fourteen year old girls and hound their own underage young sons out of the group so they'll have less competition.

FREEDOM can't be defined as the LICENSE to ABUSE other human beings.)

Anyone who says that there wasn't a class system in Communist countries is prevaricating. There was a huge difference between the way that the upper level Party members lived and the way that the rest of the population lived, from different housing, to different cars (and many people didn't have cars), to different stores for food, clothing, you name it, to different health care. Not only do we have documents; we have the testimony of people who saw it, including me. You get to have your own opinions, but you don't get to make up your own facts.

Which leads me to that whopper about the west starting the war in Yugoslavia. War breaks out periodically in the Balkans because its inhabitants cling to their tribal animosities and grievances and can't refrain from turning to rape and murder to redress those grievances. It's been going on for a thousand years, long before the U.S. even existed. Anyone who has ever picked up a history book knows that.

Besides, what strategic interest do you think the US had in destabilizing Yugoslavia at that time, of all places? T

Also, to be perfectly honest, I'm beyond tired of all this internet dishonesty. I can understand not giving out personal IDs given the nutjobs with some computer skills who frequent the Web, but why do some people not even have the courage to admit their real nationality? We've got Stormfront Spaniards all over the internet pretending to be every nationality under the sun, even maybe people from the Caucasus, and now we've supposedly got a non-Russian, non-Serbian, carrying the banner for Yugoslavian Communism and Serbian ethnic purity.

(By the way, you don't have to read the Russian books themselves, you just have to be indoctrinated into their world view.)

This one is a winner too...Serbia is one of the last bastions of anti-Nazism?

Do you even know the definition of Nazism, economically and politically? Of Fascism? Where are the Fascist countries of Europe? Precisely detail how Britain is like Nazi Germany. This smacks to me of the garbage coming out of the Soviet controlled Ukraine. Everybody who is against Communism is a Nazi. The only European countries in the last twenty five years who have behaved like Nazis are the countries in the Balkans.

You know what, forget it. I'm not learning anything here, you certainly have no interest in any different point of view, and most importantly, I'm getting really depressed that people still actually think like this in this day and age. This time, I really am out.

Agree. You said that you visited Romania during communism. Romania was a joke, confronting to Albania.
Possessing private cars in Albania was forbidden. Only bicycles. The farmers can't had more than one cow. Only chickens. No lands for them. Only a small territory in backyard home. Everything was possessed by the regime. If you say there are no foods on the markets, serious troubles for you and for your family. A man can't keep his hairs long more than 2 centimeters. No one can keep beard, only mustache like Stalin. The girls should not wear short dress. Your can't kiss a girl in public. If the secretary of the party is against your marriage, you should not be married with the girl you loves . If you disobey him, serious troubles. The religion was forbidden. You can't pray to God. If the regime see you praying God, you have serious problems, your families either. Many imams and priests were imprisoned or killed by the regime. Albania was the only one atheist state throughout the world. You should obey about everything what the dictator said. He was like Zeus. It was too dangerous saying anything against the regime even when you talk with your husband, because he might be a spy. If you realise escaping out from there, your family will have heavy consequences. Imprisoned or exiled in camps
If you read about the communism in Albania, you will be shocked.

 

[Piro Ilir]

What Baer?

Guys, sorry saying this. But it's too clear. He is saying that is not a Serbian. Serbian is not an ethnicity, Serb is an ethnicity. Probably he is a Serb kosovar or a Serb Croatian, or a Serb Bosnian, or a Serb montenegrin. [emoji6] . He is anti NATO and anti western civilization because he wants the Serb supremacy throughout the south east Europe. He is a Serb extremist nationalist. It's so difficult to build a democratic Balkan with those people. But in the end we will.
Le brok, are you aware about the polls, which showing the most anti American people in Balkans?
[emoji562]

 

[Piro Ilir]

Oh, LeBrok. Enough with your demagogy. You've sold your soul for a small amount of silver

What about Vucic. [emoji1] .He is trying for good relations whether with USA and Germany.

 

[LeBrok]

Le brok, are you aware about the polls, which showing the most anti American people in Balkans?
[emoji562]

They are also anti everything, even anti-themselves, anti-other-Balkanians.

 

[Ike]

Le brok, are you aware about the polls, which showing the most anti American people in Balkans? [emoji562]

Wow, didn't know that. Nice:

"The negative attitude opinion of the U.S. increased by 18 percent in Serbia, and 13 percent in Pakistan."
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2009&mm=07&dd=07&nav_id=60329

What about Vucic. [emoji1] .He is trying for good relations whether with USA and Germany.

Well, since that CIA agent is a Prime minister here, he probably added some 5-10 % more to the previous chart

 

[Piro Ilir]

Stop watching TV and read a book on this subject once in a while.







Nope, my example stands firmly. The problem is you just don't want to understand it.


Yes, we know that. It behaves very similar.



What's this got to do with current US invasion and destruction of Balkans?

USA destruction of Balkans? When ever happened that?
Where do you see that I'm talking like a terrorist here [emoji45]?
The only one who is sending troops in Syria and Ukraine is Putin. He is helping Assad. Which means they are both terrorists.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Wow, didn't know that. Nice:

"The negative attitude opinion of the U.S. increased by 18 percent in Serbia, and 13 percent in Pakistan."
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2009&mm=07&dd=07&nav_id=60329




Well, since that CIA agent is a Prime minister here, he probably added some 5-10 % more to the previous chart

You think that Vucic is a via agent? [emoji23] . If we should believe you, everyone is a CIA agent. [emoji23] .
As far as I know Turks and Greeks are the most anti American people in Balkans, followed by the Serbs. But I'm not sure. It's just a poll

 

[Ike]

USA destruction of Balkans? When ever happened that?

At the end of the 20th century.

 

[Piro Ilir]

At the end of the 20th century.

I'm asking again. Do you think that Vucic is a CIA agent?

The only destruction was the airplanes of Milosevic which were bombing villages of civilians in kosova, and making an ethnic cleansing.

 

[Ike]

I'm asking again. Do you think that Vucic is a CIA agent?

Well, I'm not familiar with their rankings. They pay him to do some jobs, you can call it what you like.

The only destruction was the airplanes of Milosevic which were bombing villages of civilians in kosova, and making an ethnic cleansing.

Yes, I remember those civilians, armed by CIA and infiltrated over border to kidnap, slash, rape, destroy property, murder, pillage, etc... His biggest mistake was he didn't make a stronger stand against USA.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Well, I'm not familiar with their rankings. They pay him to do some jobs, you can call it what you like.


Yes, I remember those civilians, armed by CIA and infiltrated over border to kidnap, slash, rape, destroy property, murder, pillage, etc... His biggest mistake was he didn't make a stronger stand against USA.

What kind of jobs?

If Milosevic would stand more than what he did, Serbia was going to lose parts of the today's territory. As sandsak, certain parts of south serbia and parts of vojvodina. Serbia didn't paid the right bill for her massacres. USA was merciful .