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Immigration Ban the burka?

This is somewhat paranoid… something that people on both sides of the fence want to perpetuate.

What has happened lately is that fare right wing attitude are becoming more main stream. Among Muslims and non Muslims alike.

The fact of the matter the vast majority of Muslims integrate.

This is just the good old story. Here in Denmark we had the same thing about Polish workers 100 years ago… Also when people moved to the city from the rural areas the people saw them as a threat to their way of life.

All this anti veil, hijab and burka talk and banning it, is doing is that’s it shifting its meaning.

You are actually making it a symbol of self determination. Here in Denmark even non Muslim women were wearing it as a sign of protest against oppressive laws.

The vial and other covers would disappear eventually even today many don’t wear it.

Before this talk of liberating Muslim women started there were actually far fewer young women wearing it.

It so incredible sad… that the extreme elements on both sides are succeeding in causing a rift.

Before the free the Muslims minds movement. The main concern for Muslim parents was that their children lost their identities… now their biggest fear is that they get pushed in the clutches of extremists.

As I see it the world is loosing its head… every day the extremists (on both sides) get stronger.

Also someone mentioned circumcision… That won’t happen as it also hits the Jewish community, who know maybe in 50 years after the Muslims are “liberated” we can start “liberating” them again. THINK we are all getting played and manipulated.
 
I vote yes just for 2 reasons,

1 is the same that a mask is baned in public areas, what difference haw Burka with a mask, both can hide someone,
so if a mask, a hood that opens only eyes is baned, then burca should be baned

2 is work or public issue, an army that wear all the same have marks with name above,
so a public worker or assistant with burka should also have a BIG mark with ID name, and a seal from police or a supervisor that has been checked, every day, else it is like an anonymous and that is how should be treated,
a face and a name, that is ID card, so if someone has hidden face is like having no ID,

the only think i can accept is scarf ( a mandilla, a tsatila, a fakioli) that hides the top and the back of the head, and neck.
I mean respect can be proved by covering hair and earsand neck, not face
people without face = noname people = no exist = slaves

if you talk to woman wearing burka is like talking to box with voice,
if they want burka, let them wear it in their house.

Gods or god or allah create woman with long healthy hair, to cover her sidew and back,
if Gods or God or Allah wanted woman with hidden face, then women will have hair in their faces, not in their top of head, but woman have less hair in face than man, so probably man should wear burka, that suits to natural and divine beard that was given,
ty
 
I never put the burka. Not without my daughter.
 
Aconform said:
This is somewhat paranoid… something that people on both sides of the fence want to perpetuate.
The fact of the matter the vast majority of Muslims integrate.
All this anti veil, hijab and burka talk and banning it, is doing is that’s it shifting its meaning.
You are actually making it a symbol of self determination. Here in Denmark even non Muslim women were wearing it as a sign of protest against oppressive laws.
The vial and other covers would disappear eventually even today many don’t wear it.
Before this talk of liberating Muslim women started there were actually far fewer young women wearing it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct Aconform. Despite what the media would have us believe many Muslim women are not forced to wear the burka nor cover their hair, many do actually wear veils because they choose to but it seems that freedom of expression doesn't apply to everyone.

I can't help but think of the Catholic convent school I went to as a child and the nuns covered in black from head to foot, of women not being permitted to enter a church without some form of hair covering or of the Orthodox nuns, again covered in black, here in Greece. I don't remember anyone ever objecting to hair covering but then, this was/is a Christian practice and not a Muslim one.
 
Muslims expect our women, and men to cover up when we go to their countries, which is totally fair. So I don't think it's too much to ask for the same treatment. We should all respect each others cultures and adhere to what is expected of us in each different nation.
 
I read a very funny thing last week:
98% of the muslims living in France don't wear "full-face veils", and 100% of them don't consider it like a "religion sign"...
We should all respect each others cultures and adhere to what is expected of us in each different nation
Click to expand...
Oh please, this is an immoral practice, an ancestral custom...Why don't muslim men wear burkas or Hijabs?
 
It is a woman's right to choose what she wears and what customs she practices, it is not for me or anyone else to force their opinions or customs on to her. It is what living in a supposed democracy is about.
 
It is a woman's right to choose what she wears and what customs she practices, it is not for me or anyone else to force their opinions or customs on to her. It is what living in a supposed democracy is about
Click to expand...
So you accept "Stoning to death" or "Corrida"??? There are customs...

And the most funny is the origin of this custom...
Why do some muslim women wear burkas?
Because their husbands want it, and why?
Because they don't want their women seduce the man next door...ilt's ridiculous...
They want to avoid adultery, so they cover the faces of their wifes!!!
 
VonRoust said:
Why don't muslim men wear burkas or Hijabs?
Click to expand...

Exactly VonRoust. This is an ancient custom based on patriarchal character of society. Women belonged to men. Men had rights to cover and protect their property.
It is so obvious and transparent that I'm surprised that any westerners, specially women, defend this tradition. I can understand muslim women, raised and brainwashed for their whole life, believing that this is their choice to wear it. I'm yet to see a western nonmuslim women chosing to wear burka.
 
Mmm, both of you should read properly first. I haven't defended any custom, what I HAVE done is defended the RIGHT of a person to CHOOSE. Enforcing a law that says something shouldn't be worn is no different than enforcing a law that says something should. Merely opposite sides of the same coin, both are restricting the right of free choice.
 
There is just a little problem. They cannot choose right now because they don't have a choice. Help them first be free of old patriarchal customs, after that they are free to choose.
 
Wow, that's one massive generalisation you have going there Lebrok. Personally, I wouldn't presume to know what goes on in the one billion or so Muslim households across the world. Nor presume to dictate what they should or shouldn't be wearing, it is for Muslims to work out amongst themselves and not for the west to decide for them. Unless help has been asked for, which it hasn't.

But as the topic is only about a law in Europe, people (supposedly) do have the right of free choice. But only if you are Christian, it seems.
 
Perhaps women feel safer when wearing full cover. I heard such argument and I fully understand it - sometimes I also just don't want anyone looking at me :) I wish I could wear a burka, too :) (but only when i wanted it)
 
The bad think about burkas is that it must be very very hot under then. And if this outfits comes in black and one lives in a hot country... Then it must be simply hellishly hot under them.
 
Antigone said:
But as the topic is only about a law in Europe, people (supposedly) do have the right of free choice. But only if you are Christian, it seems.
Click to expand...

We are talking about Muslim women wearing burka, right? What choice do they have?
I choose to wear burka, because my husband can kill me to protect honor of the family, or maybe just beat up.
I choose to wear burka, because all females in my family wear them and I will be isolated if I don't.
I choose to wear burka, because mullah was teaching me all these years that's the right thing to do, and I want to be a good Muslim woman, not a sinner.

Say again, what free choice of these women are you talking about? Show me the one, western, nonmuslim woman, that wears burka of her own choice. I see, you can't. So, on what grounds you based your opinion that Muslim women, choose on their own, unforced will, to wear burka???
How do we limit their choices if we ban burka??? There are no choices to limit if you don't have any. The only choice that we limit is of Muslim men, for god sake, who force old patriarchal traditions on their women.


Actually christianity has nothing to do with western freedoms. It just happened that it was a dominant religion in Europe. Religions are always socially conservative forces, strongly against any changes.
 
Dagne said:
Perhaps women feel safer when wearing full cover. I heard such argument and I fully understand it - sometimes I also just don't want anyone looking at me :) I wish I could wear a burka, too :) (but only when i wanted it)
Click to expand...

I could understand that this is actually a choice, depending on a mood of person.

If it comes to burka, once the "choice" is made you wear it all the time in public. You don't really see these women alone in a street. Always in companion with someone. It is not proper for muslim women to be in public alone. They also "choose" to go out always with companion.

It's actually a good point, Dagne.
Muslim women choose to were burka all the time, disregarding mood, weather, fashion. They also are free to choose any color as long as it's black or gray.

Let's not limit their choices banning burka.
 
b01.jpg
This is a traditional Lithuanian dress of a married woman in the XIX century. Of course women did not have to cover their faces, but the hair was always covered, and the skirts were long... So perhaps the Muslims customs are just a bit dated compared to European, (-100 years), but not that much different.
 
0949_1001.jpg
And this is an archeological reconstruction of clothes that were worn in by Baltic tribes in I-IV AD. Again the hair is covered ... and this is not the influence of Christianity which will come to these part of the world after another 1000 years.
 
Regarding the choice of colour - if it must come only in Black, yes, I agree, it is not much of a choice.
Even in Eastern parts of Morocco, the burkas are only black, and the only way to decorate yourself is to choose some decorated line at the edges of the outfit...
 
This is a really good demonstration of the evolution of the women's emancipation! The clothes are the best exemples...

@LeBrok:
You didn't answer my comments...
And the most funny is the origin of this custom...
Why do some muslim women wear burkas?
Because their husbands want it, and why?
Because they don't want their women seduce the man next door...ilt's ridiculous...
They want to avoid adultery, so they cover the faces of their wifes!!!
Click to expand...
This is freedom???
This is descrimination!!!
And the full-face veil is the "public" symbol of the muslims extremists inequalities...

Try to watch "Persepolis"...
 
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