Immigration Ban the burka?

If that is what the woman wants, so be it. Please forward a list of all those women who wish to be slaves. (lol)
Lol, it might seem funny but it is reality in India, in some villages. There is an organization, I forgot the name, buying people off slavery. They claim that on many occasions the freed slaves go back to old owners asking to take them back. Supposedly they are so lost in new and free reality they don't know how to function in it, so they go back to what they know best. It is sad but true.

I found one of the organisations.
https://www.freetheslaves.net/india/
 
There are doubtless some women who have been so indoctrinated and brainwashed that I'm sure they would choose to keep their burkas...others, perhaps older women, might be frightened to remove them, unable to function in what we consider normal ways. But I have faith that younger women, especially those acquainted with other cultures, would be thrilled if it were forbidden and therefore their fathers or brothers could do nothing to them.

Slavery, of course, is an unmitigated evil, in my opinion, and shouldn't be allowed.

However, you might be surprised to hear that I'm not totally against arranged marriages, if they are not totally coercive, i.e. you are not forced to marry some old, fat, otherwise repugnant, or cruel man. As I got older, I realized, like Mark Twain, how much more intelligent my parents were than I ever gave them credit for. I'm willing to concede that they might have known what I needed more clearly than I did myself when I was very young, and therefore could, indeed, have made a better choice, or at least an easier choice for me than I might have made for myself. I work with a number of people of Indian descent whose marriages were arranged, and I have to say, their marriages seem as happy, and actually more stable than a lot of marriages I see around me. Attitude is everything...Or maybe I'm just in a multi-cultural sort of mood today, lol.
 
There's no racism in what I wrote , you're funny guys, taking things so personal. If you come to an environment where immigrants will soon be ousted simply because they are Indian, Arabic or Jewish and want to respect their faith then maybe your opinion on the matter would drastically change, lebrok.
 
Ignorance is what you are all displaying for your close-mindedness, I did not deserve an infraction for trying to protect fundamental rights and liberties of individuals. If you want to wear a kippah, a turban, a hijab; I don't care. I'm smart enough to realize most people do it by choice.
 
Ignorance is what you are all displaying for your close-mindedness, I did not deserve an infraction for trying to protect fundamental rights and liberties of individuals. If you want to wear a kippah, a turban, a hijab; I don't care. I'm smart enough to realize most people do it by choice.

That may not be true. The French authorities stated that their ban on wearing the hijab was done at the request of moderate muslims who felt that young women in muslim neighbourhoods were facing threats of violence when they didn't wear the hijab, and that the only way to prevent such coercion was to outlaw face coverings. And even if people do choose to wear such a thing, there are reasons why most countries in the western world already had laws against going masked by night and so on. It's an issue of public safety and public order.
 
The level of racism and xenophobia in this province, is startling. Don't doubt it Aberdeen please, you should know best. There's no way I'm going to support laws that try to undermine fundamental rights and liberties or that directly attack the English tongue. There is NO way that this province will become independent, not in a million years.
 
The level of racism and xenophobia in this province, is startling. Don't doubt it Aberdeen please, you should know best. There's no way I'm going to support laws that try to undermine fundamental rights and liberties or that directly attack the English tongue. There is NO way that this province will become independent, not in a million years.

You're talking about two different things, Adamo. Before you defend the burka, please go to a large European city, perhaps Paris, and wander around some of the muslim neighbourhoods. On second thought, don't. If you aren't one of them, you might not survive the experience.
 
Because France failed in their attempt to eliminate multiculturalism, to the point that you have divided ghettos in Paris with different ethnicities in them to keep the blacks and Muslims away from whites, subliminally what the French government wanted. Now quebec is trying to be even more xenophobic and racist, don't give me this junk Aberdeen, you know this yourself.
 
Don't put burka and niqab in the same pot with the other headscarves wearing thing. The semnifications of wearing a burqa are far more serious than wearing a headscarf, and therefore it must be banned (in western societies, at least).

Wearing a burqa means that instead of being locked up and buried so that noone can see you, you are allowed to take the prison with you in society and do little things (like shopping) and god forbid if you're talking any other thing than you strictly need to with a stranger. The fact that some women say the chose to wear it doesn't mean they chose it by their own free will, but because they fear rejection or being bad mouthed (or worse) by their family or their community.

On the other hand, wearing a hijab or any other type of headscarf doesn't hide your identity as a woman or a person. One can choose to wear those as a form of proving decency, of not showing off clothes or fancy haircuts. Hell, in my (european) country, not very long ago, if a married woman showed her hair on the street on the countryside, she was promptly categorised as being of loose morals. Muslim societies seem to have been stuck at this level, and this cannot be changed by law but only through education (on the men side too, that should tell them that a woman that is trying to look pretty isn't necessarily asking to be hit on).
 
I agree the Burka should be banned, personally I don't see a problem with the hijab. What is going on here in quebec though is far bigger than that, a sort of attack on English language/culture and on minority groups based on uncalled for and unjustified xenophobia.
 
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I think Aberdeen has articulated the main issue, at least for me. In a democratic society, individual liberties must always be balanced against the interests of the greater society in maintaining public health and order. In addition, the state has an interest in protecting certain segments of the population, such as minors, and guaranteeing the rights of minority groups from unreasonable actions by the majority. In this situation, the state has, in my opinion, to balance religious liberty against not only public safety and public health concerns, but also against concerns for women's rights, and the rights of minors.

In the United States, for example, courts have ruled that religious freedom has its limits. It was ruled that the Amish could not be forced to bear arms, but they were not exempt from laws mandating the education of their children up to a certain legal age.

Likewise, courts can order Christian scientists to permit medical treatment for minor children.

I don't think there can be any question that certain religiously and/or culturally sanctioned practices in some parts of the world should be prosecuted in our societies. After all, would someone really argue that the giving in marriage of thirteen year old girls, or honor killings, or, let's say, what is euphemistically called female circumcision should be permitted? These are all customs in certain countries that are regarded as outside the pale in the western democracies. Would the application of criminal penalties for these acts be a violation of the religious civil rights of the women involved, or more precisely, of their families? Or would doing so actually be protecting the civil rights of women who are the victims of these acts.

Granted, burkas don't rise to this level, but I believe a convincing legal argument can be made that wearing a burka is not conducive to the health and safety of the wearer or to the safety of the people in the vicinity. These women can't even see properly, for goodness sakes. There are also public safety concerns...we can't allow virtually masked people to roam the streets. Nor should they get driver's licenses without a photo ID where the face is visible.

I also have yet to see any proof for the proposition that " most women that wear the hijab do so by choice and love of their culture"[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] Is there some representative survey of women all over the world who wear it that someone would care to share with us? And what was the methodology? Were their menfolk standing in the same room when the questions were asked? Or perhaps large numbers of Muslim women have shared with men not of their own ethnicity or religion their innermost feelings about these matters?

What I have seen is very different...young women brutalized by these customs, who protest against them at great risk to their own lives.

Even should some wish to keep the burka or submit to these kinds of practices, it says nothing about the worth of them in an abstract way. People can become acculturated to almost anything if subjected to enough societal pressures. I'm sure we all know from history how some Chinese mothers of the years before the 20th century would hold their daughters down while their feet were bound so tightly that the toes gangrened and fell off, not to mention that the poor women were virtually crippled. And in that situation, no religious imprimatur was at play.[/FONT]

As to the wearing of head scarves, if people wish to do so on their own time, that's fine with me, but trailing scarves have no place in factories or restaurants or even hospitals in my opinion. Wear a hair net.
 
The constitution of the United States states that we must never infringe on personal rights and liberties. Let's take quebec for example, were kippahs, turbans, hijab's will soon no longer be permitted (against the will of many.) these Jews and Indians will no longer be able to work for the public sector. They will no longer be able to put food on their family's table. Not out of laziness, out of government imposed hitlerian xenophobia. To have a "religiousless" state, (which I don't see how wearing a head scarf bothers anyone in any way or imposes any religious propaganda on anyone.) One of the biggest problems here in quebec is islamophobia, a fear of the 1-2% in this province that are Muslim and/or of Arabic descent. The xenophobia lingers like a stench in the air and can be felt on a personal level from the French majority group. These "defavored" of their society will have to choose between their faith or their jobs, thus effectively creating an exodus; they are being purposefully ousted. Quebec (the only French "nation" in north-America, never gonna happen) is trying to copy the French government. What they don't care about though, is how much of an abominable failure "integration" has been in France, were fundamental rights and liberties are NOT respected. Also, they incessantly attack English-speakers and the English language with bill 14 (do some research on that, basically says you can't speak English in quebec and anyone speaking French somehow has more authority than you) and their are signs everywhere here with "we commerce in French here" written on them, due to the current racist/xenophobic government that is in power, soon this place will be ghettoized. It's much worse than what you've read so far but I don't exactly feel like explaining the entire situation right now, it would take me days.
 
I don't believe a burka should outright banned from public. I don't believe they should be allowed to wear them in driver's license photos or other forms of id. Places like public transportation may want to prohibit them. Private businesses should be allowed to prohibit them too.

Not all women are forced to wear them. To some, it is an expression of their religious thoughts / feelings. We should not allow them to infringe upon our rights, but we should not not infringe upon theirs either.

If the law is about safety or about prohibition of disguise, then what about banning plastic surgery, sunglasses, makeup, etc.

If they are brave enough to wear a burka in public, more power to them. There are a lot more disguises a terrorist or bank robber could use to hide behind than a burka. If a locale suffers a crime from someone wearing a burka, then all those wearing a burka in that locale, watch out-- search and seizure time.
 
Surely you understand that the constitution of the United States has no application here in Canada, adamo. And whether or not the Quebec legislation violates the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms or goes beyond what is reasonable, the topic here is whether the burka should be banned. IMO, that's a very different question than whether a provincial government employee should be able to wear a crucifix or Star of David to work. In some parts of Europe, muslim men are forcing their women to wear burkas or similar body gear that prevents them from functioning in a normal manner, and some people think the only way to prevent such oppression is to ban the burka. And I certainly wouldn't want to see such behaviour become common here, but I have seen a few women in burkas here in Ontario, and I think that should be outlawed.
 
Only trying to show what happens in a society when silent/calm (without violence) xenophobia gets pushed to the extreme; it actually ends up making for a very negative environment, instead of unifying us under so-called "common values", it divides us more than anything else, and division isn't good for any society, but I respect your point of view : ).
 
The answer is that if you migrate to a country , you accept their laws, their culture, their way of life and not try to bring your old system form your old country into this this country that you want to live in. If this does not suit you, then leave.

In Australia, when you arrive at the airport you show you full face ( including head) , you are then informed, that you cannot enter any public building with a covered face, you cannot attend school either, etc etc. I have a friend who works in customs who, directs people back on a plane for not wanting to sign these papers.
 
If I already doors sunglasses, I removed before to speak to the person I do not know, it's just a matter of respect, so I would like the woman wearing a ridicule or nihab do the same; unless they are ugly.
 
I do not understand the hypocrisy of the religious people who believe blindly in the God and then go and deny the the Gods work. If God wanted to hide someones face he would not have created it in the way he/she/it did. Definitely would have created faceless people/women. Why not cover cows face? It makes no sense to me... Or why not cover husbands face?
 

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