Religion Basic Christianity

[No-name]

What other threads have made me realize is that a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings exist about the basic Christian faith. In spite of the huge number of people that claim Christianity as their faith, there seem to be a lot of ideas floating about that need clarification. Hence to escape the utter negativism that exists on other threads (which I am not allowed to post on...) I suggest that we keep this a positive, fact based thread designed to reveal the basics of Christianity, the Bible and Christian belief. Most of which can be found in secular sources such as Wikipedia, or in common Christian sources such as a good concordance.

A good third party source is religioustolerance.org. On it you can find a list of Christian beliefs: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_beli.htm

A fairly clear summary is available at: http://www.basicsofchristianity.com/index.htm

There are several key beliefs, often called doctrines that most Christian sects hold in common. Later when I have a bit of time, I will list these.

 

[No-name]

Most Christian denominations hold these beliefs in common:
(In no particular order.)
Creation
The existence of a personal, omnipotent, omnicient God
The Fall and Sinfulness of Mankind.
Virgin Birth
Deity of Christ (Trinity)
Inerrancy of Scripture
Bodily resurection
Substitutionary Atonement (Salvation, Redemption and forgiveness)
Historicity of Miracles
Second Coming
Afterlife

Most of these were contained in the Nicene Creed which was adopted by the Council of Ephesus in 431 and the Apostle's Creed from the fourth century.

 

[Mars Man]

What other threads have made me realize is that a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings exist about the basic Christian faith.

At first glance, the thought of course raced through my mind that, "hey, shouldn't this be on the 'Christianity: Conceptions and Misconceptions' thread?" But after reading further, realized that the effort was to make even further distinction between a thread that leans more towards 'argument/debate' and one that leans more towards simply 'identifiying/reporting'. If I am wrong, please do correct me.

. . .on other threads (which I am not allowed to post on...)

Is this based on an actual, explicitly expressed imperative? If so, I would be kind of saddened, to an yet unknown degree depending on the circumstances. Wow....

I suggest that we keep this a positive, fact based thread designed to reveal the basics of Christianity, the Bible and Christian belief.

Positive in tenor; yes...absolutely a good thing !! The facts? A very noble thing, and I would make every attempt to be as factual as possible on the things mentioned (just as I am on the 'Biblical Texts' thread. It could be more than you may have wanted to include, though. Is this limited in scope? It may be good to positively define the scope.

There are several key beliefs, often called doctrines that most Christian sects hold in common.

The portion of quote before this above one allows the understanding of presenting basic facts about the Bible, whereas this latter one tends--at least in my mind--to undermine that permission, in some way. Am I mistaken here?

This looks like it could be a very informative thread, the likes of which I had hoped to keep on 'Biblical Texts' until 'Overcomer' came and interrupted, and a few off topics sprouted. (Not to say that I am bittered by such, no, not at all, but simply that they did lead away from my hopes of presenting facts--even in the cases where the fact is that there really are no facts other than the hordes of possibilities.) I'm looking forward to seeing how the thread plays out, and I do hope to join in with my windy, long-worded thoughts. :wave:

 

[No-name]

You are right Mars Man. This is supposed to be an Identifying/reporting and expositional/clarification type thing. As to my explicit directions, they are designed to prevent future conflicts with SVF. This is the sand box where I get to play. You are welcome to join, but please any kitty with desires to bury little turds by my castle will have to leave.

 

[No-name]

Salvation is probably the central most important concept in Christianity. The concept of Salvation can be found in these verses:

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"(Romans 3:23)
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12)
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. " (Romans 5:8)
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)


Apparently everyone is afflicted by original sin and is in need of redemption which occurs when one "accepts" Christ as savior and lord. By acknowledging the sacrifice and agreeing to be subject to Him, one escaped from the state of being lost, and also some type of eternal punishment. This entitles one to an eternity in the presence of God.

 

[Maciamo]

Thanks for the links (I already knew religioustolerance.org). However, I believe that most Western (strong) Atheists know as much about Christianity as the most devout Christians. Usually, strong Atheists have become so in reaction to religion, and have become convinced of that God didn't exist by analysing their religion of upbringing, and often also by comparing it to other religions. I just wouldn't trust someone who say they don't believe in anything without having learned sufficiently about various faiths. Likewise, I find it hard to accept people who deeply in one particular religion and criticise other faiths, without having learned about those faiths.

Personally, the more I learn about religions (either the beliefs themselves, or the history and evolution of these beliefs), the more I am convinced that none is divinely inspired, and all are man-made.

Learning about human (or even animal) psychology is equally important to understand the success of religions through the ages. It is only natural that people prefer to believe in something that make them feel comfortable (such as the idea of salvation or heaven) than not believe in anything. For instance, I noticed that people who believe in the salvation of a few selected people (supposedly more moral than the rest ?) are people disillusioned by mankind, that harbour some grudge or hatred toward society as a whole (except a few people like them), or people that unconsciously resent their too strict moral education by wishing other people (those who do not have the same values or do not follow the same strict morals) to go to hell. This way, they can feel better, as they believe they will be the only ones rewarded, and the "lost souls" (those that do not fit exactly their values and morals) will be punished by eternal damnation.

 

[miu]

I think the problem nowadays is more about not respecting other people's beliefs. This is just a small exmple but I was in India some time ago and in one hindu temple a priest told us it was very bad luck to donate only a little money to the temple. We only had very very small change but it just occurred to me that why should we offer anything at all since we're not even hindu? It's customary to donate money at a Christian service but I doubt that anyone would expect someone with different beliefs to do so. I do realize that it's customary to donate money and they know that 100 rupees isn't a lot for a Westerner, but isn't it still a matter of respecting others' right to refuse because they have different beliefs?

 

[Maciamo]

I think the problem nowadays is more about not respecting other people's beliefs. This is just a small exmple but I was in India some time ago and in one hindu temple a priest told us it was very bad luck to donate only a little money to the temple. We only had very very small change but it just occurred to me that why should we offer anything at all since we're not even hindu? It's customary to donate money at a Christian service but I doubt that anyone would expect someone with different beliefs to do so. I do realize that it's customary to donate money and they know that 100 rupees isn't a lot for a Westerner, but isn't it still a matter of respecting others' right to refuse because they have different beliefs?

I completely agree.

 

[No-name]

A tithe is traditionally 10% of one's income given to the church on a regular basis. It is what most churches depend on to pay rent, lights, sound equipment, insurance, and the pastor's and staff's salary. Gifts and other contributions go beyond that 10%. In most churches, it is not required or expected that guest and visitors give anything.

All of us are subject to our own perceptions and limits. Maciamo, your posts on the other threads have convinced me that you know little about Christianity except what you have filtered through your athiest prejudices and perceptions. Religions, like languages and cultures are difficult to know from the outside. Misinterpretations, misunderstandings, and a kind of cultural-centricity derive from judging a religion or culture from what one automatically considers a superior position. And like you, I find it "hard to accept people who deeply in one particular religion and criticise other faiths, without having learned about those faiths." I would sincerely ask that you avoid criticizing Christianity until you can objectively sort out whatever baggage you have brought from analysing your religion of upbringing. Please allow this exposition to continue unfettered by the judgements of outsiders. There are other threads for that.

 

[PRIZMATIC]

...It is a little not on this directory, but somewhere beside...:blush:
:clueless: :note:
Probably in such theme it - is enough, which is possible to tell, as though all is known... But here reasonings " about rescue not "a little bit" persons " gave a case to a reasoning...
Probably it is not casual in the Bible, it speak about " the Second Coming ", as about arrival "?Romforter" - Spirit of True...
The role of him not in "rescue", and in the information will be ready to people during " the last period "... He is similar to " the litmus document "...
Now, for example, we shall present such situation, it is necessary for "him", it - similar ?M??ses, go uphill,
For example the most known - Fujiyama there to receive from the God of "Command" to " last time ", and "he", for example, has been given birth somewhere in " the third country "... Here again - "He" comes nearer at the Airport and speaks: I - "Comforter" and I, the God have told, it is necessary for you for Japan, that there go uphill "... If in words, that He "is calmed", to him, will not cause the doctor of the psychiatrist, at least, for him will ask the passport and the visa... He will tell, that it is not present at him, as he lives under " the Law of the God " - he belongs one of the countries or the nations... How you think to Him, will give the ticket?... The Answer to us is known - the psychiatrist or police... It is necessary to be terminated examples Further?...
So, whom to rescue?... What basis parameters?...:angel:

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Most Christian denominations hold these beliefs in common:
(In no particular order.)
Creation
The existence of a personal, omnipotent, omnicient God
The Fall and Sinfulness of Mankind.
Virgin Birth
Deity of Christ (Trinity)
Inerrancy of Scripture
Bodily resurection
Substitutionary Atonement (Salvation, Redemption and forgiveness)
Historicity of Miracles
Second Coming
Afterlife
Most of these were contained in the Nicene Creed which was adopted by the Council of Ephesus in 431 and the Apostle's Creed from the fourth century.

I do not belong to any religeons so to speak, instead im more about trying to learn about other religeons, because as far as religeous beliefs and theorys go im very un-decided and i think its worth trying to learn about all religeons if posible, if only to gain knowledge and a better understanding and stuff etc.
One of my understandings so far on the bible, is that as far as things like the bible is concerned, its more like a log of what people veiwed as morally or not morally correct at that certain point of history when the various texts were written.
Given that, from my observations of the many people that call themselves christians, i agree and partly disagree with some of your points.

Yes, many people believe in one god, one higher being, who is master of this world. I'd also like to add though, that many people assume that "god" either a male or both male and female/no gender, but very rarely a female- i guess you could say this is another widely held assumption about christianity.

Many christians i have met though, although acknowledge the virgin birth, do not literally believe in itor have no strong opinions on it either way- its not really a strongly held belief nor seen as a vital part of understanding christianity or being a christian from what i have gathered.

My brain is working a bit slow at the mo as its 6:19am where i live as i type, as i have some(probably) stupid questions- what exactly do you mean by inerrancy of scripture, Bodily resurection, Substitutionary Atonement (Salvation, Redemption and forgiveness)? Its just that these are often open to interperatation as far as im aware...? The same goes with the history of miracles, as i thinks theres a big differance in acknowledging somthing written in the bible and actually literally believing in it or taking it word for word so to speak...

I think the easiest way to list the various factors of christianity, is to start with the most common beliefs, that are actually strong beliefs, and are rarely ever largely open to interperatation in the bible amoungst its followers. For example alot of christians i know acknowledge the miracles Jesus performed in the bible, but also accept that many of them can be passed off as rare natural occurances, and thus not really miracles in the sense of some magical aspect about them being believed.
The points that i can list that i have observed many christians i know in strongly believing, although you could say quite basic, are;

a. The belief in 2 higher beings- one being "god", a higher being of great good and powerful, and "satan" or the "devil", being a powerful being that is evil.
b. The belief that both satan and god can effect the individual lives of human beings.
c. The belief in the concept of an afterlife with 2 alternative forms- heaven and hell.
c2. That people who commit bad sins have a higher chance of going to hell.
d. The belief in an individual called Jesus who was the son of god.


Other common, but less widely spread or strongly held beliefs that i have observed in people that know themselves as followers of the christian faith are;

a. The belief that being gay is a sin.
b. The belief in angels and demons, servants of god and satan and the belief that like god and satan, also have the ability to effect the individual lives of human beings.
c. That jesus will be re-born into this world at some point.

There are loads of other factors i can list, but this will do for now.
Given all this though, from what i have seen so far, christianity as a religeon has the most individual interperations of its meaning amoungst its followers.

 

[No-name]

Thanks Tokis Phoenix for your reply... there is a lot here and you actually seem to have some sort of grasp for whatever. What would you like to cover first?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Thanks Tokis Phoenix for your reply... there is a lot here and you actually seem to have some sort of grasp for whatever. What would you like to cover first?

I guess the easiest way to cover your points listed would be to start with the first that i was unsure of - what exactly do you mean by "inerrancy of scripture"?

 

[No-name]

Literally, inerrancy means that there is no errors in the Bible. The Bible has been taken to be the word of God, inspired by God, infallible and word for word literally correct. That is one extreme.

Most Christians are far less literal. Some denominations believe that inerrancy allows for some types of transcription and translation errors, and others believe that the interpretive intent of the author- influenced by the Holy spirit is the single thing that is infallible. That you must take the intent of the author and the purpose of the communication into account.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Literally, inerrancy means that there is no errors in the Bible. The Bible has been taken to be the word of God, inspired by God, infallible and word for word literally correct. That is one extreme.
Most Christians are far less literal. Some denominations believe that inerrancy allows for some types of transcription and translation errors, and others believe that the interpretive intent of the author- influenced by the Holy spirit is the single thing that is infallible. That you must take the intent of the author and the purpose of the communication into account.

Hmm...Interesting, but, i think that belief that the bible holds no errors in its teachings, is becomming a less commonly held belief as time goes by now days- as you said, even people that believe that the bible's teachings are completely true, accept that there may be room for human error in things like translation.
Almost every christian i have met though over here in England, has their own interperatation of the bibles meaning- many can talk for ages about its teachings, but few can actually tell me and agree what the religeon is about, or its meaning or what makes a good christian, or how christians should live their lives or try to attain and similar stuff etc- i think this is down to the fact that not every christian takes the bible word for word, and that is why it leads to so many personal interperatations.
So you cannot really say that inerrancy in the scriptures is a widely held belief in the majority of christians maybe..?

What exactly do you mean by the "Bodily resurection" and "Substitutionary Atonement (Salvation, Redemption and forgiveness)"?

 

[No-name]

I always took "infallibility" to mean that God didn't make any mistakes, and that if there were any "mistakes" in the Bible- for whatever reason, they were just as God intended them to be. But my view is definitely uniquely my own. Although your English friends seem a bit more sensible then their American counterparts, we here on this side of the pond tend to be very literal in our Bible reading.

Bodily Resurection refers to Jesus returning from death after three days. The reason it is referred to as bodily is that according to the Bible, He returned in material form- where people could touch him and he ate food. The ressurection was the final miracle that secured the salvation of mankind.

Substitutionary Atonement refers to the fact that Jesus died as a substitute for our sins and his death meets the requirements of justice. Accepting this sacrifice results in redemption and salvation and the forgiveness of our sins.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I always took "infallibility" to mean that God didn't make any mistakes, and that if there were any "mistakes" in the Bible- for whatever reason, they were just as God intended them to be. But my view is definitely uniquely my own. Although your English friends seem a bit more sensible then their American counterparts, we here on this side of the pond tend to be very literal in our Bible reading.
Bodily Resurection refers to Jesus returning from death after three days. The reason it is referred to as bodily is that according to the Bible, He returned in material form- where people could touch him and he ate food. The ressurection was the final miracle that secured the salvation of mankind.
Substitutionary Atonement refers to the fact that Jesus died as a substitute for our sins and his death meets the requirements of justice. Accepting this sacrifice results in redemption and salvation and the forgiveness of our sins.

If its true that most christian americans take the bible more literally, its really interesting, as from what i gathered about christians i know in england and seen from english christians as a whole, the majority i know over here hardly take the bible's word literally. Its a trend thats been quickly becomming more widespread even over just the last decade over here- i think its partly due to the fact that there is a great emphasis on schools to teach their students about other religeons now days, and the increasing interest wide spread belief on the importance of science and the belief that its an incredibly important part of life and our understanding of the world around us. For example, teaching of religeon in schools over here is often called "religeous studys" or "personal studys" and generally includes the teacher talking about wide spread/well known religeons across the world(including christianity)- the teacher is also often expected to incourage his/her students to talk about current hot topics/debates and expressing theorys/opinions on things like morality and animal and human rights etc...At least that was how it was for me went i went to school, i dont know if america takes a different approach/emphasis on religeous studys in schools..?

Alot of christians i know believe that Jesus died for our sins(although alot question things like why he did, or how that saved us, or what the point of doing it was when it came down to it etc), although most christians i know around my age group either try to put some sort of scientific explanation for his bodily resurection, or simply accept it as just another one of the things that happened to jesus.
The more i look at christianity over here in england, the more i wonder wether christianity is becomming more a way of philosophical thinking, like buddhism, rather than a religeon? Its very hard to define what exactly it is over here for the majority of people.
It would be interesting to do this exact thread, but one for american people to join in on, and one for english people to join in on, and see wether or how much of a difference there is in the american and english interperatation of the most widely held beliefs or aspects of christianity are etc? There seems to be a different perspective of the religeon at least where you and i live in particular.

I take it that you meant by saying the "history of miracles" as in the belief that jesus did do all the miracles he did in the bible and that they really were miracles?

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Wow, it looks like you guys have a good dialogue going there! I like the way your questions are clear, open-minded and respectful Tokis!

The more i look at christianity over here in england, the more i wonder wether christianity is becomming more a way of philosophical thinking, like buddhism, rather than a religeon?

That seems like a very astute observation to me. Most British Christians seem at first glance to fall into three camps - those who go to church out of habit, those who go for the community aspects, and born-again Christians, most of whom seem to be more drawn by, as you say, the philosophy of Christ, rather than any actual belief in the miracles attributed to Christ. They may do just as well with the Jefferson Bible.

I wonder why American Christians are more religious?

As to the question of what Christians believe, it in some ways comes back to how we define a Christian. There is one thing that is undeniably held in common by anyone who refers to himself as a Christian - that there is something special about Jesus Christ. But then, that belief is also held by many non-Christians (myself included).

 

[No-name]

We don't cover other religions much in school, and American evangelical Christianity is very influenced by fundamentalist literal interpretation. I don't see a problem with this except when there are obvious interpretations that are missed due to the literalness of the examination. (The old forrest and trees problem.)

I could probably go into some better details about salvation and the atonement issue, but the historicity of miracles you seem to have nailed.