Bosnians/ ethnic groups there

It doesn't matter if the y was found in Europe in the Paleolithic. The amount of "Paleolithic" autosomal dna in any modern Europeans is tiny.

We have I1 and I2 ancient samples which are EEF farmer autosomally.
 
doku said:
Benedict Kuripesic in his travel very well illustrates the Turkish conquest of Bosnia 1531 years, also describes the deserted parts of going through, Herzegovina can't be considered separately truth has parts that are very inaccessible but there are also parts with the best climate in Europe. Many other sources to confirm, so that on a "standing people" in Bosnia in one place 1,400 years can't be spoken. Whatever the IMO that the major haplogroups of indigenous peoples in the Balkans I2a and E-V13, we call them Southern Slavs or Vlachs (Illyrians were missing in the 1st century AD)
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Many/most of the Bosnian stecci,stecak,belonged to the Vlach people,they have scenes with funerary dances,surely connected to the Roman,Samnite and Etruscan traditions from Campagna and S Italy,for example,the Albanella dance or The Tomb of the Dancers from Ruvo.
The dance survived in Western Wallachia,where it's called Hora de Pomana,speaking of stecci,beyond the fancy anthropological links,one thing is clear,they surely knew how to live their lives,because this was oftenly written on the stones.
A good example of living a life comes from the same region,where we can see a detached ,springhtly(desinvolte),direct ,but not a linear ,attitude.
 
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Litovoi said:
Many/most of the Bosnian stecci,stecak,belonged to the Vlach people,they have scenes with funerary dances,surely connected to the Roman,Samnite and Etruscan traditions from Campagna and S Italy,for example,the Albanella dance or The Tomb of the Dancers from Ruvo. The dance survived in Western Wallachia,where it's called Hora de Pomana,speaking of stecci,beyond the fancy anthropological links,one thing is clear,they surely knew how to live their lives,because this was oftenly written on the stones.
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The inscriptions are Slavic:

A fraction of stećci (384[36]) bear inscriptions, mostly in extinct Bosnian Cyrillic, some in Glagolitic and Latin script. The language has some archaic phrases, characterized by Ikavian while toward the end by Ijekavian yat reflex.[37]
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Ikavian is still spoken by the Croats in Dalmatia, Bosnia, Istria, Slavonia and Vojvodina and partly by the Bosnian muslims in Central and western Bosnia.
 
Wonomyro said:
The inscriptions are Slavic:
Ikavian is still spoken by the Croats in Dalmatia, Bosnia, Istria, Slavonia and Vojvodina and partly by the Bosnian muslims in Central and western Bosnia.
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The stecci confirm what we all already knew about the strategic role of the Vlachs within the Slavic states ,they had complete military and commercial responsabilities.At that time,they spoke both Slavic and Romanian,with the traditional form of organization ,katun,preserved,while many toponims and even original names have also survived until the modern period.
These Slavic states have offered lots of opportunities for them,so that's why they choose Slavic,because they were some of the representatives of the Serbian,Croatian,Bosnian kings and nobles ,it legitimized them.
Many stecci have bows and swords carved,while the right hand raised means vassality.Lots of Vlachs were very wealthy,they traded with Venice,that's why the most important site seems to be Radimlja.The Venetians didn't liked them that much ,because they oftenly caused unrest in their cities,some laws chased them away after trading.
Things were different in the Bulgarian Empire,this was a very large state,conquered by the Greeks,we definitely had an extended autonomy.
Not to mention that I have personally met them,very nice people,by the way.
Still,they have that strong Byzantine-Orthodox manners,which made me think that Ochrid was quite far from us,because our elders had clearly seen Orthodoxy differently,a matter of pride,status,more individualistic,probably that's why the Patriarch from Constantinople used to call the Early Wallachian Orthodoxy heretic.
Gentlemen,there is a Romanian Orthodoxy,in Curtea de Arges ,you could still hear' Domne miserere' in the 16th,17th c.
 
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Litovoi said:
The stecci confirm what we all already knew about the strategic role of the Vlachs within the Slavic states ,they had complete military and commercial responsibilities.At that time,they spoke both Slavic and Romanian,with the traditional form of organization ,katun,preserved,while many toponims and even original names have survived also until the modern period. These Slavic states have offered lots of opportunities for them,so that's why they choose Slavic,because they were some of the representatives of Serbian,Croatian,Bosnian kings and nobles ,it legitimize them. Many stecci have bows and swords carved,while the right hand raised means vassality.Many were very wealthy,they trade with Venice,that's why the most important site seems to be Radimlja.The Venetians didn't liked them that much ,because they oftenly caused unrest in their cities,some laws chased them away after trading. Things were different in the Bulgarian Empire,this was a very large state,conquered by the Greeks,we definitely had an extended autonomy. Not to mention that I have personally met them,very nice people,by the way.
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The name "Vlach" was initialy used by the Slavs to name speakers of the Latin language. However, when the Vlachs were first mentioned in Croatia and Bosnia they were speaking Slavic language and had Slavic names. It is obvious that the term Vlach got more meanings over time. The funny fact is that mostly Latin speaking citizen of Dubrovnik called the Slavic speaking people in the hinterland - Vlachs, and at the same time they hated when someone called THEM "Vlach"!

The way of life is not a proof of ethnicity, rather a result of adaptation to a different environment. The "Vlachs" who switched to agriculture quickly lost their "Vlach" label, and started to call other shepherds by that name. The word "Vlach" had different meanings in different times. Present day Croatian genetics does not "see" Vlachs.
 
Can you guys help me in my GED match results thread?
 
i2a2.jpg
 
Lenab said:
i2a2.jpg
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It doesn't matter. Y dna doesn't tell you over all autosomal or "ethnic" similarity. Ydna is less than 2% of a man's make up. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't have R1b West Africans.

R1b-Hausa-1.jpg


Bosniaks, Serbian Bosnians, and Croatian Bosnians are virtually indistinguishable from each other in terms of overall genetic similarity. Everything people in the Balkans were told about their "ethnicity" seems to be way off base.
 
Angela said:
The Bosniacs, Bosnian Croats, and Bosnian Serbs are virtually identical to one another in terms of overall genetics.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105090

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In the Figure 2 one can see that the Hungarian sample shows almost identical proportions but for some reasons it is moved away from "Western Balkan" and paired with French in a group called "West Europe" (!?)

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105090

:useless:
 
Angela said:
It doesn't matter. Y dna doesn't tell you over all autosomal or "ethnic" similarity. Ydna is less than 2% of a man's make up. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't have R1b West Africans.

R1b-Hausa-1.jpg


Bosniaks, Serbian Bosnians, and Croatian Bosnians are virtually indistinguishable from each other in terms of overall genetic similarity. Everything people in the Balkans were told about their "ethnicity" seems to be way off base.
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Silly comment isn't it? Saying haplogroups don't matter, haplogroups are your genetic common ancestor, even different Africans don't have common ancestors which makes them different kind of Africans. If haplogroups don't matter and don't reflect a persons race and ethnic groups why has every race got their own haplogroups?
 
It does matter, however it's just a average idea everyone in the world depends actually.
 
^^How many times do I have to agree that Croatians are a lot like Hungarians?

If you had ever read the paper, or if you read it, understood it, you'd know Kovacevic says the same thing, so the snide emoji is uncalled for...

Do you want a tee shirt that says Croatians=Hungarians, or Croatians are not Balkan for Christmas? Would that make you happy?
 
Lenab said:
Silly comment isn't it? Saying haplogroups don't matter, haplogroups are your genetic common ancestor, even different Africans don't have common ancestors which makes them different kind of Africans. If haplogroups don't matter and don't reflect a persons race and ethnic groups why has every race got their own haplogroups?
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One French sibling inherits autosomes from a great great great granddad, his brother inherits nothing from him. Can we say they are different kinds of French?
 
Lenab said:
Silly comment isn't it? Saying haplogroups don't matter, haplogroups are your genetic common ancestor, even different Africans don't have common ancestors which makes them different kind of Africans. If haplogroups don't matter and don't reflect a persons race and ethnic groups why has every race got their own haplogroups?
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Please do some reading on population genetics. Uniparental markers like the y can be helpful for migration movements, but they can be very unhelpful for an individual's ancestry.

A group of Y chromsome R1b herders goes to Africa, ultimately deriving from EUROPE. They bring very few women with them. By 5-10 generations in of mixing with African women, they are no longer EUROPEAN in any meaningful sense. They are African, they speak African languages, and they look African.

You have very outmoded ideas. See, if you're rude, people will be rude back.
 
Angela said:
The Bosniacs, Bosnian Croats, and Bosnian Serbs are virtually identical to one another in terms of overall genetics.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105090

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View attachment 9553
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Ive seen a lot of former Yugoslavian kits on gedmatch and there are some differences. Croats are more slavic genetically and more nothern shifted while serbs are more bulgarian and med shifted. Hungarians and croats cluster closer on a pca plot than croats and serbs for the most part. Bosnians are everything in between.
 
Angela said:
^^How many times do I have to agree that Croatians are a lot like Hungarians?

If you had ever read the paper, or if you read it, understood it, you'd know Kovacevic says the same thing, so the snide emoji is uncalled for...

Do you want a tee shirt that says Croatians=Hungarians, or Croatians are not Balkan for Christmas? Would that make you happy?
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Not necessarily. I am just curious about the criteria the authors used to group countries in the graph. Genetic clustering? Geography? Language? Shoe sizes?
 
davef said:
One French sibling inherits autosomes from a great great great granddad, his brother inherits nothing from him. Can we say they are different kinds of French?
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People have more than one haplogroup usually their main haplogroup links up to their main ancestry like ultimately that's what they are every country has a list of haplogroups
 
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