Bronze Age Vucedol Culture R1b Z2103 / L23

[markod]

What makes you think samples from Albania proper within the same timeframe wouldnt plot more similarily to modern Albanians?
Seems like proto-Albanians were more north-western shifted and gradually mixed with Greek women more or less. It's no surprise here, we border the Greeks for several millenias now. Illyrians had contact with Greeks, and also the Dorics were said to be related to the Illyrians.
Plenty of modern Scando, Slav, French, German samples, and so on, are more Near-Eastern shifted than their Bronze Age IE counterparts.

The difference between Iberians and Albanians/Tuscans is actually not trivial. It would require like 50% replacement with Greeks as source of admixture. I find this very unlikely.

 

[Fatherland]

The difference between Iberians and Albanians/Tuscans is actually not trivial. It would require like 50% replacement with Greeks as source of admixture. I find this very unlikely.

No, it is likely, doesn't have to be Greeks, but a EEF source.

The same way it happened to Iberia, almost completely replaced by Yamnaya R1b, yet largely EEF in admixture.

North Albanians have less Near Eastern admixture than South Albanians. It goes like a gradual line, increasing the more south.

 

[Angela]

A lot of my gedmatch results for two population mixes show approximately 50% Iberian/50% Greek.

It's not at all unusual for central/Northern Italians.

Just take a look at the map. It makes perfect sense.

 

[MOESAN]

^^
To Ygorcs

"Some time" because this is a non-stop and we are already already faced with another change. The movement is that it produces the changes in a gear that never stops. It may be the time when the European knows more about himself and has longed for or longs for a fixed identity card but seeing what has been seen on the identity card of Europe is that non-stop.

I agree for a part, but this process is not level and history knew periods of relative stability compared to other periods and by example between plain Middle Ages and 1900's it seems to me that a lot of regions stayed relatively stable, with a rather sedented basic population (agrculture); otherwise we could not see the current differences between European populations, even if these differences are not huge ones. AS says Ygorcs, we may try to find out these periods of stability and changes and try to link them to political/economical/ethnical/linguistic facts so history.

 

[Sile]

Sorry for my ignorance.
My question lies is in this fact: Why the Puntdnal K13 calculator was chosen for the study of that specific case.
According It's creator: "The impetus in creating this calculator was the release of the Southeast Asian study, which inspired me to create a calculator that included a Southeast Asian component and give my Southeast and Northeast asian people a more accurate calculator for their ancestry."
In my specific case, that am mainly an Iberian, the distances in the "1 population approximation" are very large, and only become smaller in the case of 4 populations approximation:
[FONT="]Using 1 population approximation:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]1 Spaniard @ 9.395582[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Italian_Bergamo @ 10.434740[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]3 Italian_Tuscan @ 13.895406[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 Macedonian @ 15.314872[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]5 French @ 15.747106[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 French_Basque @ 16.059492[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]7 Albanian @ 16.189871[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 Puerto_Rican @ 16.203737[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]9 Bulgarian @ 16.428440[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 Kosovar @ 16.615946[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]11 Greek_Thessaly @ 17.111013[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 Serbian @ 17.448019[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]13 Montenegrin @ 17.732849[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 Romanian @ 18.374989[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]15 Belgian @ 19.437056[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 German_South @ 19.748306[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]17 Croatian @ 19.880758[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 Italian_Abruzzo @ 19.989098[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]19 Bosnian @ 20.218548[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 Greek_Central @ 22.063169
[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]Using 3 populations approximation:[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 50% French_Basque +25% German_South +25% Moroccan @ 4.618662[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Using 4 populations approximation:
[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]1 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Serbian @ 4.517266[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + German_South @ 4.555442[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]3 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Moldavian @ 4.568152[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 Algerian + Croatian + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.597589[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]5 French_Basque + French_Basque + German_South + Moroccan @ 4.618662[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 Algerian + Bosnian + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.622537[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]7 Puerto_Rican + Spaniard + Spaniard + Spaniard @ 4.655657[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Hungarian @ 4.683390[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]9 French_Basque + French_Basque + Moroccan + Scottish @ 4.708595[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 French_Basque + French_Basque + German_South + Tunisian @ 4.725478[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]11 English + French_Basque + French_Basque + Moroccan @ 4.731346[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Mozabite + Scottish @ 4.742117[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]13 Algerian + English + French_Basque + French_Basque @ 4.764601[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 French_Basque + Italian_Tuscan + Puerto_Rican + Spaniard @ 4.771196[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]15 Albanian + French_Basque + Puerto_Rican + Spaniard @ 4.773725[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Slovene @ 4.776832[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]17 Algerian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Scottish @ 4.789011[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Mozabite + Orcadian @ 4.796102[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]19 Algerian + French_Basque + German_South + Spaniard @ 4.796734[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 French_Basque + French_Basque + Moldavian + Mozabite @ 4.799528
Hugs to all
[/FONT]

is this admixture correct as it states SW ( south West ) or do they mean SE
.
mine below
puntDNAL K13 Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 40.21
2 NE_Europe 31.47
3 West_Asia 15.60
4 SW_Asia 8.21
5 NE_Asia 1.68
6 South_Asia 1.20
7 West_Africa 1.10
Finished reading population data. 191 populations found.
13 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Italian_Bergamo @ 5.380587
2 Macedonian @ 5.615315
3 Italian_Tuscan @ 6.227891
4 Bulgarian @ 6.515718
5 Kosovar @ 7.404111
6 Albanian @ 7.734768
7 Montenegrin @ 8.686404
8 Greek_Thessaly @ 8.695016
9 Romanian @ 9.424124
10 Serbian @ 9.521023
11 Spaniard @ 10.405109
12 French @ 13.239509
13 Bosnian @ 13.569337
14 Italian_Abruzzo @ 14.127935
15 Croatian @ 14.418421
16 Greek_Central @ 14.897999
17 German_South @ 16.106207
18 Moldavian @ 16.144953
19 Belgian @ 16.758413
20 Hungarian @ 17.273235
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian +50% Italian_Bergamo @ 2.879009
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Bergamo +25% French_Basque +25% Romanian @ 2.411094
Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri + Utahn_European @ 1.902782
2 French_Basque + Hungarian + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.002598
3 French_Basque + Italian_Tuscan + Turkish + Utahn_European @ 2.003595
4 French_Basque + Moldavian + Spaniard + Turkish @ 2.010896
5 English + French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.016394
6 French_Basque + Moldavian + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.043981
7 Croatian + French_Basque + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.045027
8 Bosnian + French_Basque + Spaniard + Turkish @ 2.058331
9 Azerbaijan_Azeri + Belgian + French_Basque + Spaniard @ 2.067628
10 French_Basque + Slovene + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.069413
11 French_Basque + Hungarian + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish @ 2.078355
12 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Slovene + Turkish @ 2.124298
13 French + French_Basque + Macedonian + Turkish @ 2.145992
14 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Orcadian + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.150871
15 Bosnian + French_Basque + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.156808
16 French_Basque + Irish + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.157369
17 English + French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish @ 2.162531
18 Belgian + French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.173811
19 English + French_Basque + Italian_Tuscan + Turkish @ 2.182699
20 German_South + Spaniard + Spaniard + Turkish @ 2.183275

 

[Sile]

I also get Bergamo but not as much as you.
I look Eastwards to find the Puglia-Illyria connection in my results.
Besides North-East Italy, are you saying that Bergamo has a connection with the Illyrians too?

Well, bergamo was under the Rhaetic people, neighbours of venetic and illyrians
oderzo and trieste are known illyrian cities before becoming venetic
illyrians and celts created halstatt culture
so, there could be some neighborly union

 

[Duarte]

is this admixture correct as it states SW ( south West ) or do they mean SE
.
mine below
puntDNAL K13 Oracle
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 40.21
2 NE_Europe 31.47
3 West_Asia 15.60
4 SW_Asia 8.21
5 NE_Asia 1.68
6 South_Asia 1.20
7 West_Africa 1.10
Finished reading population data. 191 populations found.
13 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Italian_Bergamo @ 5.380587
2 Macedonian @ 5.615315
3 Italian_Tuscan @ 6.227891
4 Bulgarian @ 6.515718
5 Kosovar @ 7.404111
6 Albanian @ 7.734768
7 Montenegrin @ 8.686404
8 Greek_Thessaly @ 8.695016
9 Romanian @ 9.424124
10 Serbian @ 9.521023
11 Spaniard @ 10.405109
12 French @ 13.239509
13 Bosnian @ 13.569337
14 Italian_Abruzzo @ 14.127935
15 Croatian @ 14.418421
16 Greek_Central @ 14.897999
17 German_South @ 16.106207
18 Moldavian @ 16.144953
19 Belgian @ 16.758413
20 Hungarian @ 17.273235
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian +50% Italian_Bergamo @ 2.879009
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Bergamo +25% French_Basque +25% Romanian @ 2.411094
Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri + Utahn_European @ 1.902782
2 French_Basque + Hungarian + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.002598
3 French_Basque + Italian_Tuscan + Turkish + Utahn_European @ 2.003595
4 French_Basque + Moldavian + Spaniard + Turkish @ 2.010896
5 English + French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.016394
6 French_Basque + Moldavian + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.043981
7 Croatian + French_Basque + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.045027
8 Bosnian + French_Basque + Spaniard + Turkish @ 2.058331
9 Azerbaijan_Azeri + Belgian + French_Basque + Spaniard @ 2.067628
10 French_Basque + Slovene + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.069413
11 French_Basque + Hungarian + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish @ 2.078355
12 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Slovene + Turkish @ 2.124298
13 French + French_Basque + Macedonian + Turkish @ 2.145992
14 French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Orcadian + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.150871
15 Bosnian + French_Basque + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.156808
16 French_Basque + Irish + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.157369
17 English + French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish @ 2.162531
18 Belgian + French_Basque + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.173811
19 English + French_Basque + Italian_Tuscan + Turkish @ 2.182699
20 German_South + Spaniard + Spaniard + Turkish @ 2.183275

Thank you by the reply Sile

 

[Pip]

I'm not sure we can be too specific about Vucedol, as its DNA seems recently-mixed and diverse, both autosomally and in terms of its yDNA lineages. When it is so mixed, it is difficult to track where the bulk of its descendants might have ended up.

Its Z2103 sample I3499 looks atypical of Z2103, and more like a cross between Central European Bell Beaker and North Iberian; but I see no signs in it of Yamnayan descent, nor of it being ancestral to Bell Beaker. However, samples around it do look either Yamnayan or undiluted EEF.

 

[Carlos]

[h=2]This one is mine. I have much less W- Asia than the others. Does it mean that I am more Neolithic and I have very little or nothing of Yanamama? I am always 4, 5 or more away and my parents are from the same town.

puntDNAL K13 Global Oracle results:[/h][FONT=&quot]puntDNAL K13 Oracle[/FONT]

Admix Results (sorted):

Population

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]SW_Europe[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]46.76[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]NE_Europe[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]32.8[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_Asia[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.54[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]SW_Asia[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]6.1[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]South_Asia[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]1.27[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]NE_Asia[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]1.24[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]East_Africa[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]1.09[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Siberia[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.99[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_Africa[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.9[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]South_Africa[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.77[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Oceania[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.29[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]SE_Asia[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]0.27[/TD]

Single Population Sharing:

Population (source)

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Distance [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Spaniard[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]4.46[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Bergamo[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.89[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]French_Basque[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.73[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]French[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]11.28[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_Tuscan[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]13.41[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Macedonian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]14.12[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Belgian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.02[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bulgarian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.28[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Serbian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.29[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]German_South[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.4[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Kosovar[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.02[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Montenegrin[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.07[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Albanian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.08[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Croatian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.61[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek_Thessaly[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.94[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Romanian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.27[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bosnian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.54[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]English[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.72[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungarian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.45[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Scottish[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.84[/TD]

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

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[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 3"] Primary Population (source) [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 3"] Secondary Population (source) [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] Distance [/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]83.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]French_Basque[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]16.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Afghan_Uzbeki[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.27[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]81.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]French_Basque[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]18.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Nogay[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.39[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]80.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]French_Basque[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]19.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Turkish_Aydin[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.41[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]83.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]French_Basque[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]16.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Tadjik[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.68[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]3%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Oroqen[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.74[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Daur[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.77[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]96.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]3.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Burmese[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.77[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.2%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.8%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Xibo[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.77[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.3%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.7%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Bulala[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.78[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Hadza[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.79[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.3%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.7%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Naxi[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.8[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]96.8%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]3.2%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Mongolian[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.83[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Anuak[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.83[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Sudanese_South[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.84[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]96.9%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]3.1%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Thai[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.84[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Dinka[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.84[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Korean[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.85[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.5%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Han_North_China[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.85[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Japanese[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.85[/TD]

[TD="width: 20, align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="width: 15"] [/TD]
[TD="width: 30, align: right"]97.6%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Spaniard[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: right"]2.4%[/TD]
[TD="width: 200"]Biaka_Pygmy[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]3.85

[/TD]

 

[markod]

No, it is likely, doesn't have to be Greeks, but a EEF source.

The same way it happened to Iberia, almost completely replaced by Yamnaya R1b, yet largely EEF in admixture.

North Albanians have less Near Eastern admixture than South Albanians. It goes like a gradual line, increasing the more south.

I thought this would be common knowledge by now, but the 'Balkanic' populations are defined by their divergence towards the Caucasus/Iran. EEF admixture doesn't suffice - the LBA/IA samples look Iberian because they don't have extra CHG.

 

[Salento]

Well, bergamo was under the Rhaetic people, neighbours of venetic and illyrians
oderzo and trieste are known illyrian cities before becoming venetic
illyrians and celts created halstatt culture
so, there could be some neighborly union

puntDNAL K12 Ancient:

puntDNAL K10 Ancient:

I'm not that mixed, on k13 p-dnal I get 5 Anc., you get 7, Carlos get 12.

 

[Carlos]

^^
I thought my parents were more sedentary. You and the rest get higher in W-Asia, me lower. What town or ethnic group does W-Asia represent?
puntDNAL K12 Ancient Oracle

Alberstedt_LN_I0118

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]15.95[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.39[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Vatya_SG_RISE479[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.92[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Halberstadt_LBA_I0099[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.2[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungary_BA_I1502[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.22[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Unetice_EBA_I0117[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.49[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungary_CA_I1497[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]19.15[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Iceman_MN_SG[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]20.02[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]20.73[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]21.16[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]21.42[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Epserstedt_MN_I0172[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]21.43[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Baalberge_MN_I0560[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]21.49[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungary_EN_I0495[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]21.69[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Iberia_M_ I0406[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]21.91[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]22.99[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Iberia_EN_I0412[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]23.64[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Iberia_Chalcolithic_I0300[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]24.44[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Potapovka_I0419[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]24.84[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]LBK_EN_I0054[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]25.14[/TD]

puntDNAL K10 Ancient

Italian_North

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]

[TD="width: 50, align: right"]4.32[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Spanish_Southwest[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.03[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Tuscan[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.72[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Italian_South[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]7.91[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Spanish_Northeast[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]8.59[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Albanian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]9.2[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]French[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]10.05[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Bulgarian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]10.08[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]10.33[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]German_South[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]14.27[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Sicilian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]14.31[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Croatian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.05[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Ashkenazi_Jew[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.43[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Utahn_white[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]16.91[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Hungarian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]17.21[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Irish[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.22[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]English_South[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.82[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Basque_Spanish[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]19.53[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]Czech[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]20.47[/TD]

[TD="width: 40, align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="width: 220"]German_North[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]20.72[/TD]

[TD="align: right"][/TD]

 

[Salento]

Generally:
West Asia = Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iran, Iraq, and the Caucasus.
Caucasus = Located between the Black and Caspian Seas. Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia.

 

[Carlos]

Since the Gedmatch was on I took advantage of it and I made a total Gedrosia for the same price and it is very decorative.[FONT=&quot]

gedrosia K6 Oracle[/FONT]

Admix Results (sorted):

Population

[TD="align: center"] # [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Percent [/TD]

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_European_Hunter_Gartherer[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]42.16[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Natufian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]39.25[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Ancestral_North_Eurasian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]15.23[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Sub_Saharan[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"] 2.57

[/TD]

[FONT=&quot]Using 1 population approximation:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Spanish @ 3.253918[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 French @ 3.536413[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Croatian @ 4.155406[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Hungarian @ 4.755836[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 English @ 6.161438[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Romanian @ 6.428096[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Czech @ 6.509709[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 Scottish @ 7.430361[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Ukrainian @ 8.017553[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Bulgarian @ 8.058025[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 Basque @ 8.199252[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 Norwegian @ 8.529338[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 Icelandic @ 9.744299[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 Europe_LNBA @ 10.917182[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 Albanian @ 11.921358[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Estonian @ 13.026413[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 Lithuanian @ 13.567991[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 Greek @ 13.771868[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 Sardinian @ 14.285989[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Russian @ 14.887043[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Using 2 populations approximation:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 50% Hungarian +50% Spanish @ 1.903018[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Using 3 populations approximation:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 50% Italian_South +25% Palestinian +25% WHG @ 1.049433[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Using 4 populations approximation:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Albanian + Cypriot + Hungarian_KO1 + Palestinian @ 0.825008[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Albanian + Cypriot + Palestinian + WHG @ 0.825008


[/FONT]

 

[Salento]

@Carlos
Gedrosia 6 4 pop. (don’t laugh, LOL)

 

[halfalp]

I heard somewhere that it doesn't make sense to use a Gedrosia calculator as an European because they are meant to be used by people from Greater Iran or India. Obviously the calculator gonna take the closest population between modern Gedrosia component and your Europeans component. I tried once, i had mostly Armenian and Caucasus ancestry. It skewed the results no?

 

[halfalp]

The J2b2 sample of Croatia_EMBA is a Coastal sample, wich somehow makes sense with the Maritime CHG introgression in BA Mediterranean Sea that start to showing up in recent papers. While the Vucedol Z2103 sample is far inland in the Pannonian Plain, wich matches a Steppe or beyond-Tisza origin. Why modern Albanians have so much J2b ( 20%? ) and where is it found in Albania? Coast, Mountains or everywhere? As why the J2b2 Croatia_EMBA have a lot of Steppe ancestry, is the biggest mistery.

 

[Pip]

I ran some autosomal optimal fit calculations over modern Albanians.

As you would expect, this yields a mix of many ancient populations - but with the major 'contributors' estimated as Vucedol and El Portalon.

Vucedol and El Portalon are also good fits for each other, both seem to have early Steppe influences, and both have R1b-M269.

I would hypothesise that Vucedol represents either a retreat point for some of the earliest (4th millennium BC) steppic migrators into Western Europe or an early staging point from which the earliest steppic migrators moved into Western Europe in the 4th millennium BC. It also looks like these people admixed there with Yamnayan-like invaders from the Southern Steppe/Western Caucasus, and later spread southwards.

The other significant (although less significant) contributor to modern Albanians (and other Adriatic populations) looks to be Levantine DNA. I'm not sure what this represents or how it got there, but the bulk of it doesn't appear to be from Vucedol.

 

[halfalp]

I heard somewhere that it doesn't make sense to use a Gedrosia calculator as an European because they are meant to be used by people from Greater Iran or India. Obviously the calculator gonna take the closest population between modern Gedrosia component and your Europeans component. I tried once, i had mostly Armenian and Caucasus ancestry. It skewed the results no?

Edit: Wait i redo it. And it gived me this:

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Natufian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]41.35[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_European_Hunter_Gartherer[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]40.25[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Ancestral_North_Eurasian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.40[/TD]

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Albanian +50% English @ 1.189248


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Basque +25% Georgian +25% Icelandic @ 1.066368


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Croatian + English + French + Italian_South @ 1.059244

 

[Duarte]

Edit: Wait i redo it. And it gived me this:

[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Natufian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]41.35[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]West_European_Hunter_Gartherer[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]40.25[/TD]

[TD="width: 30, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="width: 120"]Ancestral_North_Eurasian[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: right"]18.40[/TD]

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Albanian +50% English @ 1.189248


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Basque +25% Georgian +25% Icelandic @ 1.066368


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Croatian + English + French + Italian_South @ 1.059244

Ancient Eurasia K6 4-Ancestors Oracle - gedrosia K6 Oracle transforms me in a Sephardic Jew.
Not bad

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Jew_Moroccan +25% Motala12 +25% Saharawi @ 0.815850


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Jew_Libyan + Jew_Moroccan + Motala12 + Saharawi @ 0.459937
2 Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Tunisian + Motala12 + Saharawi @ 0.527387
3 Jew_Libyan + Jew_Moroccan + Saharawi + SHG @ 0.629628
4 Hungarian_KO1 + Jew_Iranian + Jew_Libyan + Moroccan @ 0.753386
5 Jew_Iranian + Jew_Libyan + Moroccan + WHG @ 0.753386
6 Hungarian_KO1 + Jew_iraqi + Jew_Libyan + Moroccan @ 0.753880
7 Jew_iraqi + Jew_Libyan + Moroccan + WHG @ 0.753880
8 Armenia_ChL + Hungarian_KO1 + Jew_Yemenite + Saharawi @ 0.771465
9 Armenia_ChL + Jew_Yemenite + Saharawi + WHG @ 0.771465
10 Algerian + Jew_Libyan + Jew_Libyan + SHG @ 0.773988
11 Jew_Libyan + Jew_Tunisian + Motala12 + Saharawi @ 0.779528
12 Albanian + Motala12 + Saharawi + Saudi @ 0.782932
13 Armenia_ChL + Hungarian_KO1 + Saharawi + Saudi @ 0.790886
14 Armenia_ChL + Saharawi + Saudi + WHG @ 0.790886
15 Jew_Moroccan + Jew_Moroccan + Motala12 + Saharawi @ 0.815850
16 Cypriot + Hungarian_KO1 + Jordanian + Moroccan @ 0.816294
17 Cypriot + Jordanian + Moroccan + WHG @ 0.816294
18 Cypriot + Hungarian_KO1 + Moroccan + Palestinian @ 0.831467
19 Cypriot + Moroccan + Palestinian + WHG @ 0.831467
20 Algerian + Jew_Libyan + Jew_Tunisian + Motala12 @ 0.842786