"Call Me Ismael"

[Angela]

The story of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar illustrates an apparently well known practice of surrogacy in the ancient Near East.

See: Cuniform Tablet from Anatolia reveals infertility plan
https://www.archaeology.org/news/6084-171109-turkey-surrogate-plan

"KAYSERI PROVINCE, TURKEY—Daily Sabah reports that a 4,000-year-old Assyrian clay tablet found in Anatolia records a marriage agreement that includes a plan for how to proceed in case of infertility. Researchers led by Ahmet Berkiz Turp of Harran University said the agreement provided for a hierodule, or a female slave, who would serve as a surrogate if the couple were not able to produce a child within the first two years of marriage. “The female slave would be freed after giving birth to the first male baby and ensuring that the family is not left without a child,” "
[FONT=&quot]
Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian slave named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, “The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress.5 Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my slave in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the Lord judge between you and me.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 “Your slave is in your hands,” Abram said. “Do with her whatever you think best.” Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 The angel of the Lord found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”

Her son was called Ismael.[/FONT]

 

[LeBrok]

Sounds like a biblical story of old testament.

 

[Angela]

Sounds like a biblical story of old testament.

I always suspected that the practice described in the Abraham-Sara-Hagar story must have been a relatively common practice, but I didn't realize it was practiced throughout the Near East.

The consequences, given human nature, were to be expected. Apparently, as far back as Assyria in 2000 BC there were problems with polygamous type relationships. Our technology changes, but not our natures.

 

[LeBrok]

What's also interesting is that the writing style was the same in 2k BC Assyria and 1.5 thousand years later when Bible was written down, possibly in Israel or Babylon. Though one was done in BA, the other in IA. One thing was very helpful for assimilation of all the stories into one religious book, all region was speaking very similar languages, had similar beliefs and alike cultures.

 

[noman]

I once read a report published by some church on the distribution of Y DNA haplogroups wrt to religion, where it stated that: Ham's Y DNA haplogroup was E, Shem's was J, and R of Japheth. It would be interesting, if we could connect the dots by the help of recent genetics study.

 

[LeBrok]

I once read a report published by some church on the distribution of Y DNA haplogroups wrt to religion, where it stated that: Ham's Y DNA haplogroup was E, Shem's was J, and R of Japheth. It would be interesting, if we could connect the dots by the help of recent genetics study.

Do yourself a favour and forget about this.

 

[Angela]

What's also interesting is that the writing style was the same in 2k BC Assyria and 1.5 thousand years later when Bible was written down, possibly in Israel or Babylon. Though one was done in BA, the other in IA. One thing was very helpful for assimilation of all the stories into one religious book, all region was speaking very similar languages, had similar beliefs and alike cultures.

The Old Testament is, in one sense, I think, a compendium of the mythology, folklore, laws, and perhaps imperfectly, the history of the Greater Near East.

The big difference, however, is the Jewish insistence on monotheism, an insistence that would cost them dearly under not only the oligarchies of the East, but the Hellenistic rulers and Rome itself. That, and their cohesiveness. A "stiff necked" people, as I believe Yahweh himself proclaimed.

 

[noman]

Do yourself a favour and forget about this.

Lol!
Chill dude. I am not interested either.

 

[LeBrok]

The Old Testament is, in one sense, I think, a compendium of the mythology, folklore, laws, and perhaps imperfectly, the history of the Greater Near East.

The big difference, however, is the Jewish insistence on monotheism, an insistence that would cost them dearly under not only the oligarchies of the East, but the Hellenistic rulers and Rome itself. That, and their cohesiveness. A "stiff necked" people, as I believe Yahweh himself proclaimed.

Of course, this is what made them unique in otherwise fairly uniform cultural background of BA and IA Levant.

 

[Margaret]

Reading the Bible, I was shocked by the details of this book. Especially the story of the descendants of Abraham.