China, China, China!

[Angela]

Every time I turn around I see more and more disturbing news from China.

I started this thread a while ago.
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/36945-1984-Chinese-style?highlight=1984


Now there's this:
China’s brightest children are being recruited to develop AI ‘killer bots’

• Beijing Institute of Technology recruits 31 ‘patriotic’ youngsters for new AI weapons development programme
• Expert in international science policy describes course as ‘extremely powerful and troubling’

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...hildren-are-being-recruited-develop-ai-killer

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

The Chinese don't innovate, and this isn't anything racialist as Japan does. Even today, they mostly copy US and Japanese tech - I can't think of any industry-leading Chinese companies, for example.

 

[Groninger]

I don't know why everybody is obsessed with Putin and Russia; China is way more dangerous!

And the Chinese will dominate various branches of technology and industry soon enough; they educate incredible numbers of engineers; they send their kids to the best schools in the West; and in the meantime, westerners are wasting their time on nonsense like genderstudies...

 

[bicicleur 2]

The Chinese don't innovate, and this isn't anything racialist as Japan does. Even today, they mostly copy US and Japanese tech - I can't think of any industry-leading Chinese companies, for example.

they don't have the cheapest labour any more
and - unlike the Japanese - they will innovate

 

[bicicleur 2]

the Big Brother in China is worriesome indeed
but as long as they don't try to export this concept, I don't feel threatened

some try to abuse the fear for China
Belgian politicians did so when China tried to invest in the Belgian electrity grid
they said China would spy and get to much know-how from the Belgian electrity grid management
and the press didn't have any critics on that, they played along with the politicians
I can't imagine what special know-how Belgium has in electricity distribution that the Chinese can't figure out for themselves
the real reason is, the Belgian electrity grid has a monopoly, protected by Belgian law
and the management is full of political mandates who get very well paid for their zero expertise

 

[Jovialis]

I bet in the future, when they look back on this time period, they will consider it to be similar to another Cold War. China is indeed the USA's greatest rival, that is creating another bi-polar world. The more and more, we relinquish our uni-polarity as the most powerful state; the sooner we will create a bi-polar/multi-polar world, that ultimately results in world war. The "American Century" of the 1900s has facilitated relatively more peace than previous times. That era is coming to an end.

 

[Salento]

I bet in the future, when they look back on this time period, they will consider it to be similar to another Cold War. China is indeed the USA's greatest rival, that is creating another bi-polar world. The more and more, we relinquish our uni-polarity as the most powerful state; the sooner we will create a bi-polar/multi-polar world, that ultimately results in world war. The "American Century" of the 1900s has facilitated relatively more peace than previous times. That era is coming to an end.

I’m still processing the statement of President Macron of France listing the “Enemies”, and calling for the creation of a European Army to defend against China, Russia, and the USA.
The EU Army concept is not new, but the new “enemy” is.
It seems You could be right, That era is coming to an end.

Macron:
... “We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,”
Mr Macron told France’s Europe 1 radio in an interview ....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...e-russia-us-military-defence-eu-a8619721.html

 

[bicicleur 2]

I’m still processing the statement of President Macron of France listing the “Enemies”, and calling for the creation of a European Army to defend against China, Russia, and the USA.
The EU Army concept is not new, but the new “enemy” is.
It seems You could be right, That era is coming to an end.
Macron:
... “We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,”
Mr Macron told France’s Europe 1 radio in an interview ....
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...e-russia-us-military-defence-eu-a8619721.html

Macron doesn't see the US as a threat to Europe
he sees Trump as a threat to the political caste to which he belongs

he's also not happy with the very recent Belgian decission to buy American F-35 fighterplanes instead of the French Dassault Raphale
he feels France is losing controll over its own weaponry

 

[Groninger]

The West has itself to blame for the Chinese threat, as China's rise has been immensely stimulated by our stupid policy of exporting our industry to that country (politicians call this "free trade").

 

[Angela]

Some very good insights here. I'd only add that China is indeed becoming a threat to its neighbors, and if its industrial might grows, the threat will widen.

The situation reminds me of that of Japan in the first decades of the 20th century.

 

[hrvclv]

The Chinese are now buying farmland in France. Why shouldn't they, if we are stupid enough to let them do it?

One glimmer of hope, though : for the first time in years, Chinese growth has dropped below its traditional two-figure levels. Last I heard for 2018 was 6.5%. Far better than any country in the EU, for sure, but still, things may be changing there too.

I don't think Macron fears any US "invasion" of France. He is worried US military strength might serve as leverage for economic blackmail (something like what is currently going on with the Iranian sanctions, and French firms being deterred from trading there). He is also concerned the EU might some day be abruptly left to fend for itself, with the US withdrawing from the NATO burden. Well, if it happens, the Europeans will have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[Groninger]

It is laudable and courageous that Trump is implementing these tariffs to put an end to the decades-long policy of economic capitulation toward China; but it is too late to make the Chinese threat go away; - the sleeping giant has woken up!

 

[Groninger]

I also think it is time to seriously consider what to do with NATO - the way things are going now, we are pushing the Russians right into the arms of the Chinese! In the long term, the Russians have a lot to fear from China, especially in Siberia; we have a lot more to fear from the Chinese than from the Russians; so I think it is time we try to become friends again.

 

[hrvclv]

I also think it is time to seriously consider what to do with NATO - the way things are going now, we are pushing the Russians right into the arms of the Chinese! In the long term, the Russians have a lot to fear from China, especially in Siberia; we have a lot more to fear from the Chinese than from the Russians; so I think it is time we try to become friends again.

I don't think western Europeans have a priori antagonistic feelings towards (post-soviet) Russia. It may be a different story in the East European countries that were under soviet rule - understandably. Clearly, increased economic cooperation with Russia would serve the interests of both the EU and the Russians themselves (manufactured goods / raw materials). But the idea will be hard to sell to Hungarians or Poles.

Besides, the main obstacle is Putin himself, and the way he uses his people's nationalistic paranoia to serve his very personal political and empirialistic agenda. Episodes like the invasion of Crimea and intervention in Donbass can't contribute much to diplomatic rapprochement.

In the meantime, indeed, both the EU and the US are pushing Russia into China's open arms. The same goes for Iran.

 

[LeBrok]

I’m still processing the statement of President Macron of France listing the “Enemies”, and calling for the creation of a European Army to defend against China, Russia, and the USA.
The EU Army concept is not new, but the new “enemy” is.
It seems You could be right, That era is coming to an end.

Macron:
... “We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,”
Mr Macron told France’s Europe 1 radio in an interview ....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...e-russia-us-military-defence-eu-a8619721.html

Thank your "brilliant" president for alienating all the friends. It is easier for China now to forge aliances and economic connections. America First (Alone)!

 

[LeBrok]

Some very good insights here. I'd only add that China is indeed becoming a threat to its neighbors, and if its industrial might grows, the threat will widen.

The situation reminds me of that of Japan in the first decades of the 20th century.

I'm more positive about China. It had wars with neighbors when it was poor. Now it trades more with everybody and even border skirmishes are unheard of. I believe that with rise of wealth china will relax communist party stronghold eventually and will become democratic. I'm surprised they are still in power there. They were unlucky, more liberal first secretary wasn't elected a leader, Gorbachev like.

 

[LeBrok]

The Chinese are now buying farmland in France. Why shouldn't they, if we are stupid enough to let them do it?

One glimmer of hope, though : for the first time in years, Chinese growth has dropped below its traditional two-figure levels. Last I heard for 2018 was 6.5%. Far better than any country in the EU, for sure, but still, things may be changing there too.

I don't think Macron fears any US "invasion" of France. He is worried US military strength might serve as leverage for economic blackmail (something like what is currently going on with the Iranian sanctions, and French firms being deterred from trading there). He is also concerned the EU might some day be abruptly left to fend for itself, with the US withdrawing from the NATO burden. Well, if it happens, the Europeans will have nobody to blame but themselves.

Remember in 80s and 90s all the world was afraid of Japanese buying everything in the West? What happened since? Wait a moment, French Renault bought Japanese Nisan and Korean Motors. Japanese and Koreans should be afraid of French people!
Now, do you know how much Saudis own in France? No? Do you know how much Germans own in France? No?

And now we are afraid of chinese! Boohoo!

 

[LeBrok]

It is laudable and courageous that Trump is implementing these tariffs to put an end to the decades-long policy of economic capitulation toward China; but it is too late to make the Chinese threat go away; - the sleeping giant has woken up!

What economic capitulation?!!! USA made hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars in China. It wasn't the easiest market to make money in, and still problems persist, but it benefited both sides handsomely. Apple alone just repatriated 250 billion dollars to US, money it made on the whole world, china included. Should we mention how much money car companies made in china, or fast food, wine, beer, electronics, beef, pork etc, etc? Remember, international trade benefits all parties involved.

 

[Salento]

Thank your "brilliant" president for alienating all the friends. It is easier for China now to forge aliances and economic connections. America First (Alone)!

Economic Connections with China always end with Loss of Jobs of the other Countries.
China want to export, but not to import anything that they already produce. They are super protective of their own Market.

“China First” (Supported by Hypocrites)

Worth mentioning are the domestic human rights abuse, the lack of civil liberties, corruption, and the Hypocrisy of the “Civilized Nations” doing business with this confused Communist Regime.

———
imo Macron has Stockholm Syndrome (sexually abused as a minor by a 40 years old Woman and then marr....) he needs a lot of help.

 

[Tutkun Arnaut]

On a positive side about China: They eat fried animal testicles (feed the army to toughen them up) so they could be exported to China instead of thrown away.
As for China's strength in the worlds stage, I don't see them getting in confrontation with America or Europe. If they try America and Europe will stop buying their junk and Chinese go back to the bowl of rice. Also development will be around the world. Technology made it possible so expect China economically as middle income country. China also has a number of sizable neighboring countries that if felt threaten by China could form a Nato style alliance. Vietnam,Malaysia, Philippines, Japan. Together they form another China.
China also militarily has a space weakness. It can protect its satellites only in geostationary position, not in elliptical orbit since Europe and america posses the rest of space above their lands.
China also is dependent in energy sources. Ones oil and gas stops flowing to China they have nothing to cook their food, so they have to start eating raw food. I can count more but I am lazy...