Cloning

[Areku]

Most of you out there don't really get cloning and its not like the stuff in the movies. Genetic issues come up, or the cells are aged, or organs that are cloned are oversized, or the fetus is still born, and the list if compications goes on.

I think most of us here do, but at the moment we're just speculating. Things advance all the time.

 

[howabe]

It'll be decades before scientists can actually properly and safely clone a human being

We're on the way though. Scientists in South Korea have successfully created cloned blastocysts, which are proven to have a decent chance of developing into a full human embryo. Due to the obvious ethical issues, they haven't actually tried to implant any in someone's womb yet though, so it's hard to ascertain exactly what stage in development we're at...

 

[bossel]

It'll be decades before scientists can actually properly and safely clone a human being, if the U.S. doesn't ban cloning and force other nations to do so too once the conservatives completly take over...

Decades? Maybe, although I would set my bet on one decade at the most. But, be it one or more, there will be people who will try it before it is 100% safe.

It may be even harder to develop a way to clone single organs than a complete human being, since you have to find a way to switch on & off the right genes responsible in the DNA for development of these organs (I'm not sure, though, for I'm not too deep in this issue). But once developed it should be easier, safer & possible on a greater scale (& without the ethical issues of a full clone).

 

[Buddha Smoker]

I think most of us here do, but at the moment we're just speculating. Things advance all the time.

I think everybody is speculating and I think that everybody is just putting out comments about what they would like to see or hope and hope not to see. Good comment.

 

[King of Tokyo]

[Pardon me if this has already been said, I haven't read all previous posts] I Don't really like the idea.. it could get out of control.. maybe I'm just paranoid.. but.. they could start being able to implant personality traits into these clones.. and then clone the president.. and have an evil president.. and then some crazy thing that only happens in the movies could happen for real .. or they might make a crazy clone army lol.. Sorry.. just doesn't sound great to me.. what's next, robots ? What happens if they rebel like in "I, Robot" Ahh.. just doesn't sound like a good idea to me lol.. then again.. maybe I'm just paranoid.... lol

 

[Mayura]

I dunno... I don't so like the idea of cloning... it's like if humans were trying to play God... >.<; nah... I don't like it...

And yeah... the over-population thing...
And anyway... isn't it like... mean? Even though it's just a clone, to just take its organs and stuff? I mean... well... >.<; urm... it's nearly like taking organs from any other human being? though I don't think clones ARE like humans, but they kinda look like... and all... ~.~!

 

[Foxtrot Uniform]

I'm definitly for cloning!! We could somehow get the DNA of all the dictators and tyrants and military leaders that ever lived and clone them again. We would put them (Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Napolean, Atila the Hun, Willaim the Conquerer, Ghengis Khan, etc) in a gigantic arena and watch them fight each other till the death, and see who is the greatest.

As for playing God, its too late! We already control the animals, create land, move mountains, control the destiny of other humans, and have the ability to destroy the Earth many times!!!

 

[Mayura]

Well... I dunno, but there are limits, aren't there? -.-

 

[Wang]

I don't think cloning humans is a good idea.
Because if men start massively cloning humans then people won't be as unique anymore as before. Also humans would then become more like objects that can easily be replaced by just creating more clones of anyone.

Companies could then perhaps buy clones to do jobs. Which would make the original natural humans obsolete in the labour force, because a almost endless amount of new cloned humans can be produced who look the same as you and can attain similar skills as you or anybody else that they clone.
And/or companies would then perhaps deny jobs to people with bad DNA, because why would they hire natural humans with bad DNA if they can get plenty of clones who are more prefect and more flawless then natural humans.

Some more negative implications would then also become possible like for example making a clone of a president and swap the real president with the clone president or anybody else powerful and important. Or maybe secretly produce clone armies. LOL
If the technology of massively cloning humans becomes possible and permitted then perhaps some of this stuff could happen.

 

[Arch]

I don't think cloning humans is a good idea.
Because if men start massively cloning humans then people won't be as unique anymore as before. Also humans would then become more like objects that can easily be replaced by just creating more clones of anyone.

Companies could then perhaps buy clones to do jobs. Which would make the original natural humans obsolete in the labour force, because a almost endless amount of new cloned humans can be produced who look the same as you and can attain similar skills as you or anybody else that they clone.
And/or companies would then perhaps deny jobs to people with bad DNA, because why would they hire natural humans with bad DNA if they can get plenty of clones who are more prefect and more flawless then natural humans.

Some more negative implications would then also become possible like for example making a clone of a president and swap the real president with the clone president or anybody else powerful and important. Or maybe secretly produce clone armies. LOL
If the technology of massively cloning humans becomes possible and permitted then perhaps some of this stuff could happen.

Exactly agree !!!, yes it will help in the advancement of medicine but the negatives seem to way out the postives.
No matter how people say it will be only for medical purposes, it WILL end up in military. What happens if it ends up in a nation who wants to create its army further ???
As wang said if mass cloning happened, human's would be just products now, humans would be pretty much worthless.
This also brings up a few more questions, some-one said "we are humans, we are the same as animals" well maybe so, however do you think many relgions would agree ??? It would have alot of pressure from religious groups if this came through.
So human cloning, well i think it would be a bad idea, sorely because some one will always abuse it.

 

[PaulTB]

Well it's been a good long time since the human cloning claim but to the best of my knowledge it has not been confirmed.
Personally I think it is very, very likely that these claims are fraudulous, fake, fix-ups and other things begining with 'F'.

There's a whole lot of speculation on this thread, but not much (current) science. Right now the generally perceived state of the art is such that human clone embryos can be made and can be attempted to be brought to term. It is very likely that they will not reach full term if it is so tried. It is also still the case that if a cloned baby is born it will very likely suffer unpredictible and potentially fatal medical problems throughout its (quite likely short) life.

 

[60Yen]

Hmmm, It could be a good thing. I'm not into cloning but if can be used for the benefits of the people....

 

[Japanimaniac]

This is the one issue where I seem to contradict my views. Cloning stuff in order to heal or better a person (like the ear on the mouse's back) is fine, but I can't seem to make myself agree with cloning a person. I also dont believe in these new experiments where parents could pick what the appearence of their child would be. It just seems...wrong. And I'm not even sure why, because I have no factual evidence to prove that it is. Each person has a set time and presence on this planet, and I don't think it's right to mess with that.

 

[Kinsao]

I am against cloning.

There have been great advances in treatment with the use of a person's own stem cells, which is really good because from themself it has no possibility of rejection. Stem cells could be taken from umbilical cord routinely at everyone's birth and used to help them in the case of they need treatments during their life.

Cloning 'complete' humans to full term is still in the realm of science fiction. There are many, many obstacles still to come. Some anti-cloning-ers do have a mental picture of armies of clones. I can't see that happening (at least, not for an extreeeemely long time).

However, the 'farming' of complete organs is also science fiction at the moment. It can't yet be done. The ear on the mouse's back was a different kind of case. An ear isn't an organ with all the complexities, it is cartilage/flesh that grows to a certain shape.

It does happen (I posted story on another thread ages ago) that brainstem death is induced in comatose patients so that their organs can be quickly removed while their body is still... fresh... :buuh: This happens in the UK at the moment - but beneath the rug of course. kashii:

People have too good a view of humanity. If we get the ability to successfully clone to full-term, people (including those in positions of power and responsibility) will misuse that ability. :angryfire:

We may think at the moment that people will only use cloning for good purposes and for medical advances and healing and helping people. But that's not true. I can easily envision organ-harvesting from 'real-people' clones. You're not going to convince me all scientists are too moral and ethical not to do it.

 

[Morfos]

I'm all for it. The potential for the advancement of medicine is huge. Sure, it could also be misused, but I don't think it would be more dangerous to humanity than, say, nuclear weapons.

Agree completely. Americans who oppose cloning are utter morons who take fanatical church leaders and poorly written sci-fi too seriously.

kashii:

 

[??????]

Scientists in South Korea have successfully created cloned blastocysts, which are proven to have a decent chance of developing into a full human embryo.

Hwang Cloning Scandal Invokes Nationalism

Perhaps this goes some way to explain the extraordinary reaction of the Korean people to this news. Since the infamous press conference, there have been on and offline demonstrations, candle-lit vigils, boycotting of the media outlet involved in reporting Hwang's lies to the world and even comment on the reaction from the President.

Conclusion: truth does not matter to them. What they care is, if it is stuff they want to hear or something they do not want to face.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I don't have a problem with it at all. I don't think we should view it any differently from any other medical treatment. All treatments are open to abuse anyway, and we just have to do what we can to ensure that they will be used ethically. Should we stop doing blood transfusions because we can't trust the doctors to screen for HIV? I think fear of possibly negative consequences is an unnecessary obstacle to progress.

An interesting application of cloning that I hadn't heard about until recently is as a treatment for male infertility. Instead of using anonymous sperm, it might be possible in the future to clone the mother. I know there are objections, but I think I would be happier to have no biological father than have to live with the knowledge that I can never know who my father was. Since kids look like their parents anyway, it probably wouldn't be obvious that the child is a clone. Of course, that's a personal view and many people will feel the opposite.

An argument against human clones that half swayed me for a while was that they wouldn't have a random shuffling of genes like a 'natural' person. But then how many of us do really? Twins certainly don't, and most of us 'choose' who to have children with, so it's not entirely random anyway.

 

[??????]

Followup

We're on the way though. Scientists in South Korea have successfully created cloned blastocysts, which are proven to have a decent chance of developing into a full human embryo.

Indeed on the way.

Korean Stem Cell Data Faked, Paper's co-Author Says (AP)

"Hwang Fabricated Stem Cell Research" (KBS)

Stem Cells Don't Exist: Hwang Associate (Chosun Ilbo)

More
Chronology
Excuse


Let's see what this veterinarian had said in the past:

Korea's Embryonic Stem Cell Research Surpasses That of Other Countries (Jun. 13 2005)

In an interview with Korean reporters in the U.S., Hwang remarked, "seeing nuclear transportation work designed to extract embryonic stem cells in the laboratory of Seoul National University, a prominent foreign research team yielded to a Korean team," and compared the gap in research achievements between Korea and foreign countries to the difference between Pele's soccer and village soccer.

U.K. Journal Profiles Korea's "Cloning King" (May 16, 2005)

Hwang's secret weapons was "a mastery of wielding steel chopsticks," quoting the scientist as saying, "This work can be done much better in Oriental hands... We can pick up very slippery corn or rice with the steel chopsticks."

It seems that steel chopsticks helped someone to become Pel? of lying.

 

[??????]

Follow-up

Since the infamous press conference, there have been on and offline demonstrations, candle-lit vigils, boycotting of the media outlet involved in reporting Hwang's lies to the world and even comment on the reaction from the President.

Man Drinks Poison after Demanding Respect for Disgraced Scientist

The 30-year-old jobless man made the suicide attempt while talking with employees of the Daegu MBC TV network, police said.

Still accusing MBC for whatever reasons, nice traditional public performing art "attempt" indeed.

 

[??????]

Hwang Supporter Burns Himself to Death

A South Korean man committed suicide on Saturday by setting himself on fire in downtown Seoul in an apparent protest against a prosecution investigation into disgraced cloning researcher Hwang Woo-suk, police said.

Things are on the right track.