Could Haplogroup Q in Europe be actually of Indo-European origin?

I am not "hijacking" anything, you were the one who brought up this haplogroup and Iberia again. And the source for the fact that Q1b is also found in Central Europe is your very same source for it being found in southern Iberia, namely Eupedia:

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_Q_Y-DNA.shtml

There were no Phoenicians in Central Europe, so obviously someone else brought it there, so there is nothing impossible in someone else also bringing it to southern Iberia either.
I apologize for the rude counter-argument. I am often very blunt and wary when I debate with certain people; and can often make people upset out of sarcasm and skepticism. I am not trying to be mean. I will allow you to make your own perspectives and analysis of this subject.
 
I didn't watch this yet, but
maybe it will be interesting...

 
No offense, but once again; you are totally ignorant on the matter. The haplogroup Q seen in Sicily and Southern Portugal/Spain is most likely of Phoenician, Jewish or Afro-Asiatic origin. It is the subclade of Haplogroup Q1b; not Q1a. Phoenicians and Jews are Afro-Asiatic speaking Caucasoids/Levant people.

The subclade of Q found in Sicily and South Portugal / South Spain is of Phoenician colonist or Sephardic Jewish origin; entering from North Africa.

Q1b is Iranic, Q1b in Jews (Mostly Ashkenazi), Phoenicians and Sicilians (was one one of the visit points of Alans) probably got it through contact with Iranic tribes. Q1b is not "Afro Asiatic".

Q1b which is found in Iberia is either of Alanic or Phoenician descend.
 
Q1b is Iranic, Q1b in Jews (Mostly Ashkenazi), Phoenicians and Sicilians (was one one of the visit points of Alans). Probably got it through contact with Iranic tribes. Q1b is not "Afro Asiatic.

Q1b is found in Iberia is either of Alanic of Phoenician descend.
I see what you're saying now.
 
I've heard that Q1b among Ashkenazi Jews may in fact come from Khazars, however, if it's true that Sephardics and modern Lebanese posses it as well, then I can only assume that it wasn't the Khazars.



With the words of Maciamo, unlikely because it is Q1b. Q among Turkic speakers should be Q1a.

However what I found the more likely scenario is a West (Mesopotamian) Parthian origin of the Jewish Q1b. The Parthians called themselves Ashkanians. There was not too far ago also a study on the R1a found in the Ashkenazi Jews and the conclusion was it probably came from a region between the Zagros and Mesopotamia.
 
And Sardinia also.
 
Now I see. Yes, I would agree that an Alanian contribution of Q1b might be the source. Not Phoenician as Maciamo may have suggested...Maybe the Spanish and Italians do not have much Levantine admixture after all.

This is the one thing that I seemed to have overlooked; was that I knew that the Alans had conquered Iberian peninsula but did not know if they could have had many descendants.


I noticed Caucasians have a high abundance of black hair (also Southern Spain) and even Y-DNA G2a. (also seen at high frequencies in Italy) which is probably where the dark straight hair genetically originates from, in high frequency.
 
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I often wonder if the Q1a in Europe might be of a Scythian origin.
 
If Q was entire Punic it should be founded also in North Africa but in the map of Eupedia there isn't Q there. Maybe Vandals and Alans?but some of them settled in North African as well. Here the migration of Alans in the middle ages.

BSArmDO.jpg
 
Now I see. Yes, I would agree that an Alanian contribution of Q1b might be the source. Not Phoenician as Maciamo may have suggested...Maybe the Spanish and Italians do not have much Levantine admixture after all.

This is the one thing that I seemed to have overlooked; was that I knew that the Alans had conquered Iberian peninsula but did not know if they could have had many descendants.


I noticed Caucasians have a high abundance of black hair (also Southern Spain) and even Y-DNA G2a. (also seen at high frequencies in Italy) which is probably where the dark straight hair genetically originates from, in high frequency.

Easy, Alans are described as being pred. light haired/eyed people. It's not like Black hair is an abnormally to Iberia, if theearly H&G were already dark haired.

North Caucasians/Georgians have on average higher frequency of light hair/eyes than South Spain. So your conclusion is kinda misleading.

The possibility of an Alanic origin of Q1b does not exlude the chance of Levantine admixture in Iberia and Italy. I think there is absolutely no doubt that there is Phoenician admixture in those two regions.
 
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North Caucasians/Georgians have on average higher frequency of light hair/eyes than South Spain. So your conclusion is kinda misleading.

That would be the case only when comparing the lightest eyed and haired Caucasians (Ossetes) against the darkest eyed and haired southern Spaniards (Andalusians), and even then it is a very close one:

Ossetes:


Over 50% black or dark brown hair, the rest have brown, light brown or "light" hair, and about 10% are blond


54% have brown eyes, the rest mixed and light.


Andalusians:


60% dark brown hair, 30% black hair, 10% blondish hair


60% brown eyes, 30% mixed-light eyes (predominantly greenish-brown), 10% blue-gray eyes




*Above data gathered by Carleton Coon from several anthropological studies of the mentioned populations.
 
That would be the case only when comparing the lightest eyed and haired Caucasians (Ossetes) against the darkest eyed and haired southern Spaniards (Andalusians), and even then it is a very close one:

Ossetes:


Over 50% black or dark brown hair, the rest have brown, light brown or "light" hair, and about 10% are blond


54% have brown eyes, the rest mixed and light.


Andalusians:


60% dark brown hair, 30% black hair, 10% blondish hair


60% brown eyes, 30% mixed-light eyes (predominantly greenish-brown), 10% blue-gray eyes




*Above data gathered by Carleton Coon from several anthropological studies of the mentioned populations.

And that is why Caucasian admixture wouldn't make South Spaniards black haired, when Alans were described as pred. light haired/eyed.

Take in mind Alans populated a vast bigger territory than Ossetians. Ossetians are the most Southern portion of the ancient Alans. It is not even clear if Ossetians are descend of the Alans or the Siraces, an other Sarmatian tribe.

Interesting data, could I have a link to the actual source would be nice to read more about it. But take in mind Carleton Coon never visited those areas or has seen most of these people.

It's not like the difference between North Spaniards and South Spaniards is so significant either.The least "pigmented" parts of the Northern Caucasus are on similar level with the least pigmented parts of Iberia and Italy.


Whichever source or map I look at, all show North Caucasians/Georgians having more occurance of light hair/eyes and being on level with overall Iberians and Italians.

People who are from Germany and have seen the German team play vs Georgia in the European Cup qualifiers can confirm that. From the 13 players, 4 were in Central-North European/Balkanian standards (they didn't even look East but Central-North and Northwest European), while 6 other typically Balkanian/Greek and 3 more on the Greek/ northern West Asian range.

Most interesting part on the Georgians was that many had high Nose Bridge, typically how you saw it in ancient people, Yamna, Greeks, Macedonians, Anatolians, Thracians, Iranics and some Romans.
http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/1047.jpg?v=1407099768
 
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I dunno brotha, but that team is hardly light. None of them has light eyes to begin with, and there are many who look Turkish or Kurdish.

I could post whole sports teams from Southern Italy and Sicily who look much lighter than them.
 
giuseppe you are Italian so logically you know your people better. I can't verify/disqualify this because I don't know that much about them. My sugestive knowledge is based on my personal experience and what most maps show.


But the whole subject was that "Caucasians" couldn't have brought black hair to Iberia. Nothing more.

to complete the set.
Here is the Spanish squad which played the last qualifier match against Ukraine.

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250013892.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/34694.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/93148.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250002704.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/58031.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250024456.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/1909917.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/93649.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/69172.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250000036.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250024454.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/72644.jpg



Italian squad that played the last qualifier match against Bulgaria.

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/106737.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/59142.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/103275.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250026962.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250020649.jpg

http://www.romaforever.it/squadra/photo/bertolacci-91.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250017925.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/74055.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250006200.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250005254.jpg

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/46...WrXERLyvEwGPiXzz0PLShAFt27AvAiyBHnu5ZFzoqDw==

http://goaldentimes.org/wp-content/...dini+Italy+v+Portugal+Toulon+WoPk9pIsdvnl.jpg

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Luca+Antonelli+Parma+Fc+Official+Headshots+Lc7EwjX9z_Hl.jpg


Portuguese squad that played the last qualifier match against Serbia.

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/70098.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/63706.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/61148.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/70099.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/52694.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/58953.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/101788.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/93443.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/107951.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/31429.jpg


Greek squad that played the qualifier match against Hungary.

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/1907791.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/108848.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/73874.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250017753.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/24/2012/324x324/250013061.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/39217.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/63005.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250013063.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250012954.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/1901610.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/73877.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/97664.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/250014583.jpg

http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/3/2016/324x324/72623.jpg




They appear like how I know them and how South Europeans should look like. Mediterranean people.

My source

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2016/teams/team=66/index.html
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2016/teams/team=122/index.html
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/qualifiers/season=2016/teams/team=110/index.html
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2016/teams/team=57157/index.html
[url]http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2016/teams/team=49/

[/URL]
 
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