Creationism - the anti-science.

[LeBrok]

Im a theist and so are many modern scientists today (around 40%) because we dont have the same understanding of God and religion as many Atheists do. I dont view God as an old man sitting somewhere on a cloud with a beard, ready to throw lightning bolts at people. I just find it hard to believe that matter somehow became a tiny living cell, then evolved into a complex creature like humans, and that now this matter(dirt and rocks) can contemplate its own existence, and that this is all an accident. As John lennox has said many times in his debates with atheists, you cant take mechanisms like evolution or gravity, which describe a certain process in the universe and then use this mechanism as an explanation as to why God doesnt exist.

I don't think atheists have to prove god(s) existence. The proof of god(s) lies on believers. They claim that there is someone out there, but nobody seen it or measured it, though so many can feel its existence.

Describing how laws work doesnt change the fact that we dont know why they exist in the first place or what is the purpose of their existence.

Why does it has to be a purpose? Maybe the universe is one crazy place?
And what is so great about christian purpose? To live for god's amusement? Give me a break.

I also find it hard to deny that this life in many ways seems very spiritual. Some months ago I remember speaking to a priest, who is a good friend of mine, who was telling me how he just came back from exorcising someones house. The people who came to him were non practicing Catholics who hadnt been to church in ages and didnt have any real belief in God (like a lot of modern europeans) yet after they had played some sort of new age game with friends trying to contact the dead, had been then having problems with strange things happening in their house, like objects flying around, strange voices etc. I also was just speaking to a Catholic who converted from atheism ( and was a vehement atheist) because of a similar experience. Though im a naturally skeptical person, its very hard for me to not aknowledge that there is a spiritual aspect to this life.

I was a catholic for 40 years, and yes quite strict, honest and involved, and nothing like this ever happened to me. Nothing of spiritual dimension ever happened to me. I wanted to happen, I was searching it, but I never felt it. I guess, spirituality is like beauty, in eyes of beholder. And again to "understand" spirituality we must dive into a realm of feelings.

One can take this as he likes but I dont find any basis for the smug, and honeslty arrogant claim that atheists somehow are the only people who think scientifically and logically. Its an attitude that was not common to the founders of modern science, and one which hinders creative thinking. Many people didnt want to believe Georg Lemaitres theory of the big bang because they thought it supported theism too much, including Einstein. Close minded thinking from both sides only leads to less progress.

You shouldn't compare something that is totally new, like new hypothesis, and how they are taken by surprised contemporaries, with ideas of god(s) old like humankind and still without definitive proof, till today based on feelings, beliefs and tradition. Idea of god(s) might be as imaginary as traditional beliefs that curses and bad spirits were behind people falling sick. Till, science came up with better and true explanation, of viruses, bacteria, parasites, cancer, environmental poison or genetic mutations.
Every hypothesis should have a limited shelf life. Either you can prove it in 100 years for example, or it is out.

 

[LeBrok]

Again a computer program is designed and given a purpose. I'm not speaking about a will as in a feeling I'm speaking about an inherent trait that all life has. Obviously the question is a bit philosophical but if u just look at life as a bunch of chemical reactions and physical laws then ull be like a person staring so closely at a picture he can't even see what the image is about.

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The purpose of self replicating computer program might be as benign as to check once skills, or to see if it is possible.
What do you think is the purpose of life of bacteria? What is the purpose of human life?

 

[LeBrok]

So basically what you are saying is:

Certain New Age games can modify the laws of physics.
Exorcism can restore the laws of physics.


Another option is:
Continuous use of certain hallucinogenic drugs leaves permanent brain damage, so do tumors.
A psychiatrist should be able to tell us more.

There is a reason why we don't have prophets today. We keep them in psychiatric institutions.

 

[Rethel]

The proof of god(s) lies on believers.

No, we don;t have to be proving you over and over again, becasue whatever
proof we will show you, you will reject it. And even if you would acknowledge
it, you would turn it into some deistic stuff at best. So, there is no point in that,
especially, that the existance of God is allready proofed.

They claim that there is someone out there, but nobody seen it or measured it, though so many can feel its existence.

You claim that there are little harming creatures, but nobody could
measure them or feel their existance yet not so long ago. I still can
not do that, neither you. So, this is the level of your thinking - yet
multiply by the fact, that you want to measure someone, who does
not exist in our dimension - who is actualy outside of any dimension.

I was a catholic for 40 years, and yes quite strict, honest and involved

A biggot?

and nothing like this ever happened to me

You were an apostate and idolater - what do you expected.

I was searching it, but I never felt it.

You wanted to be demon possesed?

based on feelings, beliefs and tradition.

If this was your whole religious base, then nothing strange, that you failed.

 

[LeBrok]

No, we don;t have to be proving you over and over again, becasue whatever
proof we will show you, you will reject it. And even if you would acknowledge
it, you would turn it into some deistic stuff at best. So, there is no point in that,
especially, that the existance of God is allready proofed.



You claim that there are little harming creatures, but nobody could
measure them or feel their existance yet not so long ago. I still can
not do that, neither you. So, this is the level of your thinking - yet
multiply by the fact, that you want to measure someone, who does
not exist in our dimension - who is actualy outside of any dimension.



A biggot?



You were an apostate and idolater - what do you expected.



You wanted to be demon possesed?



If this was your whole religious base, then nothing strange, that you failed.

Common Rethel, show us power of your creative brain, that you are able to understand and pull conclusions by yourself. Show us your work, that you understand what you preach. Show us that you are not a migger follower of creationist cult, that you are not just a blind believer.

Again, this is my own independent thinking and writing on many complex subjects:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...e-anti-science?p=513399&viewfull=1#post513399

 

[Rethel]

Common Rethel, show us power of your creative brain, that you are able to understand and pull conclusions by yourself. Show us your work, that you understand what you preach. Show us that you are not a migger follower of creationist cult, that you are not just a blind believer.

Whatever I say, you will answer the same. So what's the point?
Just like you were doing when you are a biggot cathol. Biggotic
atheists are probably even worse, especially these, who at one
point, were enlightend by Dawkins and similar previously being
religious biggots - similarly close minded.

As for the link, I gave you uranium hallows or 20,000 years old
dinosaurs - who were even coincidently published, and many
other things, but you reject it all not even investiaging it.

You simply don;t want to know the truth.

And your logic is, like logic of a commie in USSR who would
want to proofs from scientific soviet world, that capitalism is
better system than socialism. Such materials would be never
published, so such demands would witness only how much
delusional such person is. The same is here.

 

[Angela]

What a world we live in that the compatriots of Copernicus and John Paul II are learning their science and religion from half-illiterate American fundamentalists. It's really sad.

It almost makes me wonder if universal suffrage is such a good idea.

 

[Rethel]

What a world we live in that the compatriots of Copernicus and John Paul II are learning their science and religion from half-illiterate American fundamentalists. It's really sad.

Copernicus was a creationist.
JP2 actually too - at least offcially,
becasue he did not change the official
teaching on that matter.

It almost makes me wonder if universal suffrage is such a good idea.

Of course is not.
One of the stupidest idea ever.

 

[Vallicanus]

Neither atheists nor theists/religious types are able to prove the existence or non-existence of "God". We just don't know and can only speculate.
Fanatics on both sides are narrow-minded prigs.

However, to think the Earth is only a few thousand years old instead of millions of years old is totally insane.

Christian beliefs like the Trinity are ludicrous.

 

[Rethel]

We just don't know and can only speculate.

Yes we know, and we do not have to speculate.
Firstly, the very thing that you are alive, and all around you witness' about the Creator and God's existence.
Secondly, the conscience, morality and the feeling of bad and wrong witnesses about the higher law giver.
Thirdly, the very need of God which is implemented in all humans and universality of a belive witness' that there is Someone.
And fourly, the most important, we know about God, because he did reveal himself to us through the Book and prophets.
Fifly, this what God said, was always fullfield witnesseing, that his Word is true and comes from higher source.

So, there is no need for speculations. God is allready known since thousands
of years, preached to every nation, tribe, language and country through centuries,
and his Book is the most translated and spread Book in history. If someone want to
know him, he is just around, becasue:

- every one that asketh receiveth;
- and he that seeketh findeth;
- and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

So there is no need for speculation.
Everyone who want to know God, can achieve it.

However, to think the Earth is only a few thousand years old instead of millions of years old is totally insane.

Why, because someone did tell you that?

Christian beliefs like the Trinity are ludicrous.

Trinity is not biblical beliving, but influence of the apostates.

 

[Bergin]

Rethel,
May I ask your opinion about Scientology?

 

[Rethel]

Rethel,
May I ask your opinion about Scientology?

What can be said about ideology based
on comics and sci-fi literature from 1960s?

Idiotism.

 

[Bergin]

What can be said about ideology based
on comics and sci-fi literature from 1960s?

Idiotism.

Thank you Rethel, I tend to agree with you.
I really wonder how come the people inside Scientology do not see it.
Any idea?

 

[LeBrok]

Thank you Rethel, I tend to agree with you.
I really wonder how come the people inside Scientology do not see it.
Any idea?

Same way Rethel and alike can't see their insanity. Believe, believe, believe...
"What can be said about ideology, which takes its aspiration in medieval creationism?"
Idiotism.

 

[LeBrok]

Whatever I say, you will answer the same. So what's the point?

So you have nothing to show for, no original thought in you. You are the mindless follower then. You are exactly what you always accuse people to be. Mindless follower of some crazy idiotic cult.

 

[davef]

I agree with Angela and Rethel, in that universal sufferage is a bad idea! A well known elected official spends most of his time golfing, creating conspiracies to distract us and make us forget about his corruption, arguing with celebrities and posting nasty tweets on twitter against those who oppose him, electing CEO's into positions of power so they have more direct control and can more easily lift restrictions against building power plants in national parks amongst other similar offenses, failing again and again to reform health insurance in spite of being a brilliant businessman or negotiator, and making it obvious that he received "help" during the elections by blocking off authority figures from investigation regarding "collusion".

 

[Vallicanus]

Yes we know, and we do not have to speculate.
Firstly, the very thing that you are alive, and all around you witness' about the Creator and God's existence.
Secondly, the conscience, morality and the feeling of bad and wrong witnesses about the higher law giver.
Thirdly, the very need of God which is implemented in all humans and universality of a belive witness' that there is Someone.
And fourly, the most important, we know about God, because he did reveal himself to us through the Book and prophets.
Fifly, this what God said, was always fullfield witnesseing, that his Word is true and comes from higher source.

So, there is no need for speculations. God is allready known since thousands
of years, preached to every nation, tribe, language and country through centuries,
and his Book is the most translated and spread Book in history. If someone want to
know him, he is just around, becasue:

- every one that asketh receiveth;
- and he that seeketh findeth;
- and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

So there is no need for speculation.
Everyone who want to know God, can achieve it.

All vague babble, sorry.
You are certainly not a convincing preacher.

Somebody told you that nonsense about the recent origin of the Earth when palaeontology and geology make it clear that the Earth is millions of years old.

 

[LeBrok]

All vague babble, sorry.
You are certainly not a convincing preacher.

Somebody told you that nonsense about the recent origin of the Earth when palaeontology and geology make it clear that the Earth is millions of years old.

Not to mention that all the science branches are in total agreement here. Age of our Earth and evolution of life on Earth is in total agreement with laws of physics, geology, biology, archeology, chemistry, and so on. It is only not in agreement with beliefs and feelings of creationists and few alike.

 

[Rethel]

Thank you Rethel, I tend to agree with you.
I really wonder how come the people inside Scientology do not see it.
Any idea?

Because they just do not want to.

Same way Rethel and alike can't see their insanity. Believe, believe, believe...

The fact, that you were beliving becasue someone told you
to do that, it doesn;t mean, that your behavior was correct.
Now you on the same basis belive in atheism and evolution.
Actually nothing changed, blindness remains.

"What can be said about ideology, which takes its aspiration in medieval creationism?"
Idiotism.

And here you are showing that you are unable to see and jugde the difference.
It also means, that you are speaking about things, which you do not understand.
But I am affriad, that you just hate it, maybe even you just hate God.

So you have nothing to show for, no original thought in you. You are the mindless follower then. You are exactly what you always accuse people to be. Mindless follower of some crazy idiotic cult.

I did allready show you things. You did not even bother to examine them.

Not to mention that all the science branches are in total agreement here. Age of our Earth and evolution of life on Earth is in total agreement with laws of physics, geology, biology, archeology, chemistry, and so on. It is only not in agreement with beliefs and feelings of creationists and few alike.

Now matter how many times you will repeat it, it will not become true.

 

[Rethel]

You are certainly not a convincing preacher.

Maybe I am not convincing, becasue I am not talking what you want to hear?
You just do not want to be convinced, like LeBrok. On one post, he was claiming
that one or two guys did live 20k and 40k years ago becasue C14 showed it, but
when he became awarem, that the same method dated dinosaurs at the same age,
he just ignored it and pretend that nothing happend. The same with the fact, that
C14 simly cannot be at all in at leat 65 mln years old remains. He probably was
searching internet, but obviously did not find anything - other wise, would be crying,
how it can be "explained" and how stupid are creationists.

But lets suppose, I would convince you, that evolution
is a bullshit. And what would you do with that fact?