Dacian Language

[zanipolo]

lol, besides claim on timing being incorrect, you do not even realize that I2a comes from I2

I know it comes from I2, its you who is giving wrong information by date . 12a is same time as J2 and e-v13 , but I2 is befroe all of them.

Do not distort dates by mixing the a in the I2 and using it to announce its before the J2 etc

 

[zanipolo]

Quoted for truth, the both of you.

Now, regarding the Norici: from what little is known, they were a Celtic-speaking people akin to the Gauls and the Galatians. There are also very short inscriptions from the region (written in a variety of the Etruscan alphabet) which back this up.

Furthermore:

- Ptolemy records Celtic town names on the territory of the Norici (for example, "Gobanodurum", "Gesodurum").
- Pliny claims that "Norici" is an other name for "Taurisci"
- Strabo (in book VII, chapter 2.2) states that the Taurisci are Galatians.

since its used by the Etruscan alphabet and this alphabet was used by the rhaeti and the venetics in their language , then why do you call it Celtic-speaking people ?

 

[iapetoc]

sorry no post here

how can i delete it

 

[how yes no 2]

you are nuts,

Homeric is written not in slavic not even in Thracian but in Proto Greek

I never claimed it is...
I just notice that Roberto Salinas Price reknown linguist says that it was clearly translated to proto-Greek from some proto-Slavic language... so I say it is possible as well...
http://www.homer.com.mx/Heroic_Age/IAOLKOS.html

Makedonian even at low class speak aeolian epirotan not even word from south slavic or Serbian,

you lived in ancient Macedonia?

Besides if you at least new a littlle thracian or Greek the suddenly you will understand
Dorieis Trichakes
Bryges Thriikes
city center Trikke

you expect one word to be reflected in all languages related to some parent civilization?

what is Slavic "Trg" (town center, market) than same word?
note Slavic "trgovac" (merchant) and Illyrian "tertigio" (merchant)

in fact even translated you can not understand hommer
and 4% are guess cause we have lost language,
Homeric is only 20% of modern greek language due to romans and Byzantines,
who f up the language

noone f u the language...
speaking languages evolve much faster than many expect...

Besides since you like to play it Celtic and Thracian give the names of primary God and the Orphic religion
I quess you never asked who were the gods of ancient Thracians
cause you stay behind the BIG Slavic family and play it god and now claim that Anatolians were Slavic,

nope i claim Anatolians were first related to Celts, than Germans, than related to Slavic, later they became related to Greeks, and even later to Turks...
Europe was populated from Anatolia...

Yes Serbi came from africa to arabia and Sheba kingdom then moved Syria to minor asia by sharpedon then moved to Europe to Scordus mountain, then moved east to caucas to Serbi area then return to Bella serbia and finaly moved to serbia that is today, but before the take a holiday trip to boii
your theory,

Grats

nope, they originally dwelt in Bohemia and spread as Sherdana and Cimmerians into Asia as deep as red sea where they had kingdom of Sheba and China where Serica was....

Besides when you talk about intruders you better watch out

G is the oldest in Europe
J2a enters Europe before 8 000 years
so take a look of times and then tell me who is older

check your data....

No Further expand cause i have to insult if I continue

calling someone nuts is not insult in Greece?

Simply tell me the names of Thracian gods
and why triballi is no more in use.

because it may have been exonym?

besides we are are home erectus or cro magnon?

I do not know what you are...

If slavic is anatolian and hittite
then the order goes like this

Hittite 2000 BC
lycaonians ????
enter balkans and became thracians ok means 1300 BC at least
thracians expand north meet the scythians and the baltic and became slavic
and the returned back to balkans???

is that you are saying?
sambazios is about 900-800 Bc when brygians moved east

not correct to say Slavic is Hittite...
but Hittite are related to origin of proto-Slavic people....

older name for Makedonia is Ematheia
I wonder does it means something to you or in Fyroms language?
also Pieria , Pierii is the tribe that makedonians fight
cause it means in another language

do you think the world came to existence with invent of Greek language and words Greek authors recorded?

if you want me to guess...

Ematheia

suffix -eja / -ija - is typical ending for lands
e.g. Srbija, Rusija, Eritreja, Somalija, Saudi Arabija, Libija, Britanija, Spanija, Portugalija...

ema is not a word... but we need to take into account that word was perhaps wrongly transcribes by Greeks... so we look for similar sounds...

1) zemlja/zema = land


1a) mati = mother

zema+mati+ja (suffix used often for lands) = (z)ematija
so ematheia could mean stg. like homeland...

2) it could also mean "land of Tea"
however word Tea doesnot exist in modern Slavic except as greek loan in coin words related to religion...
in Slavic, god = Bog

btw. Matija/Mateja is common name in south Slavic people
but it is imported via bible from Hebrew..where it means gift from god

3)

imati = to have
"imatija" would be very reach land, land where everyone have everything...

in fact this is most likely option as it is in coherence with spirit of the language more than other proposals...
I could easily use "zemlja imatija" in a story and every not retarded south Slavic language speaker will know what I meant with it...




Pierria

parija is slave caste in Indian society
any nation stretching to areas near India would know the meaning... Serians would know as Serica also contained arc from China to India....

if I try to map word there are many possibilities in any language... there should be a clue of meaning to make a match.... but why do you expect it to be word from language of pre-Greek settlers?

 

[Taranis]

since its used by the Etruscan alphabet and this alphabet was used by the rhaeti and the venetics in their language , then why do you call it Celtic-speaking people ?

Well, for starters, the Lepontii and the Gauls who settled in northern Italy also used a variant of the Etruscan alphabet (mind you, so did the Oscan and Umbrian people further to the south in Italy). Just because somebody uses an alphabet doesn't make him automatically speak the language, no? We also use the Latin alphabet. Do we speak Latin?

Now, for explanation the text written above can be transliterated best into Greek letters as:

"ΑΡΤΕΒΥΘΖΒΡΟΨΘΥΙ"

(though Ψ stands for "Chi" and not "Psi")

Which transliterates as:

"Artebuthzbrokhthui"

Now, the Etruscan alphabet did not distinguish between voiced/unvoiced stop consonants, but distinguished between unaspirated/aspirated stop consonants. Celtic languages did distinguish between voiced/unvoiced stop consonants but didn't know aspiration. So what the Celts did was using aspirated stop consonants as voiced ones (Th = D, Kh = G). Which hence yields:

"Artebudz Brogdui"

"Arte-" means "bear", compare:
Gaulish "Artos"
Old Irish "Art"
Welsh "Arth"
Breton "Arzh"

"-budz" means "penis"
compare Gaulish "Bu∂∂uton". "∂∂" here represents the so-called "Tau Gallicum", and the "dz" in Noric probably represented the same sound.
Also compare Irish, Scots Gaelic "Bod"

"Brog-" means "homeland", compare:
- Gaulish tribal "Allobrogi"
- Galatian personal name "Brogitarus"
- Welsh "Bro" ("areas", "distict")
- Breton "Bro" ("country")

"-ui" in Gaulish is Dative. (basically meant as "dedicated towards")

EDIT: Knowing you folks, I suspect at least some of you will step forward and claim "better" translation, point out that Noric is possibly Albanian, Slavic or quite possibly Martian...

 

[how yes no 2]

Well, didn’t I mention before that the ending -dava is also used in Lithuanian place names? Close to Kaunas where I lived in my childhood there was a village named Vaišvydava and also Vaišvydavos giria (forest) which, as you may notice is exactly the same as it might have sounded in Dacian.

-dava is not suffix in that word....

Vaišvydavos is one of gods (devas in Indian) in indian vedas (Vishvedavas)...

Vaišvydavos giria is forst of that god

btw. giria is cognjate with Slavic gora

 

[zanipolo]

Well, for starters, the Lepontii and the Gauls who settled in northern Italy also used a variant of the Etruscan alphabet (mind you, so did the Oscan and Umbrian people further to the south in Italy). Just because somebody uses an alphabet doesn't make him automatically speak the language, no? We also use the Latin alphabet. Do we speak Latin?

True and it does not make them exclusivly celtic either

Now, for explanation the text written above can be transliterated best into Greek letters as:

"ΑΡΤΕΒΥΘΖΒΡΟΨΘΥΙ"

(though Ψ stands for "Chi" and not "Psi")

Which transliterates as:

"Artebuthzbrokhthui"

Now, the Etruscan alphabet did not distinguish between voiced/unvoiced stop consonants, but distinguished between unaspirated/aspirated stop consonants. Celtic languages did distinguish between voiced/unvoiced stop consonants but didn't know aspiration. So what the Celts did was using aspirated stop consonants as voiced ones (Th = D, Kh = G). Which hence yields:

"Artebudz Brogdui"

"Arte-" means "bear", compare:
Gaulish "Artos"
Old Irish "Art"
Welsh "Arth"
Breton "Arzh"

"-budz" means "penis"
compare Gaulish "Bu∂∂uton". "∂∂" here represents the so-called "Tau Gallicum", and the "dz" in Noric probably represented the same sound.
Also compare Irish, Scots Gaelic "Bod"

"Brog-" means "homeland", compare:
- Gaulish tribal "Allobrogi"
- Galatian personal name "Brogitarus"
- Welsh "Bro" ("areas", "distict")
- Breton "Bro" ("country")

"-ui" in Gaulish is Dative. (basically meant as "dedicated towards")

EDIT: Knowing you folks, I suspect at least some of you will step forward and claim "better" translation, point out that Noric is possibly Albanian, Slavic or quite possibly Martian...

I will not claim anything because I do not know the depth of the language, but my point was that the celtic, raeti, venetic, lopontic used the etruscan alphabet and adopted it to suit there needs.
If you say tis celtic, then I can accept it...I just asked the question

 

[how yes no 2]

I know it comes from I2, its you who is giving wrong information by date . 12a is same time as J2 and e-v13 , but I2 is befroe all of them.

Do not distort dates by mixing the a in the I2 and using it to announce its before the J2 etc

sorry but that is ill reasoning...
you claim that I2 was in Europe before J2 and E-V13, but I2a was in Europe after them....
knowing that I2a is continuation of I2, that statement just makes no sense at all regardless of actual dates..

if I settled an area, how can you be equally native as my grandgrandson by arriving there when he was born?

 

[Taranis]

True and it does not make them exclusivly celtic either

Ah yeah, I see now what you meant.

I will not claim anything because I do not know the depth of the language, but my point was that the celtic, raeti, venetic, lopontic used the etruscan alphabet and adopted it to suit there needs.
If you say tis celtic, then I can accept it...I just asked the question

I didn't imply that you would make such a claim, nor that it was necessarily somebody in this thread. But, as you know, strange claims about ancient and/or poorly-attested languages happened before on this forum, so I thought a general warning advance was appropriate.

 

[iapetoc]

english: construction site
serbian:gradilište
Czech: staveniště
Slovak: staveniska
macedonian:gradilišteto

english: purgatory
serbian: čistilište
russian: chistilishche
macedonian:čistilišteto
bulgarian: chistilishte

I am lazy to search for more words, but suffix exists for sure in Czech....
how can it be in Czech and Serbian, but not in Slovene, Russian... if there was no movement of people from Balkan to Czech republic area as I suggested with Scordisci migrating back to Bohemia under pressure of roman empire and moving back as Serbs later...

or the opposite and the acceptance of moravian by Serbs !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iapetoc]

sorry but that is ill reasoning...
you claim that I2 was in Europe before J2 and E-V13, but I2a was in Europe after them....
knowing that I2a is continuation of I2, that statement just makes no sense at all regardless of actual dates..

if I settled an area, how can you be equally native as my grandgrandson by arriving there when he was born?

??????? do you talk about Fyromians?

 

[zanipolo]

sorry but that is ill reasoning...
you claim that I2 was in Europe before J2 and E-V13, but I2a was in Europe after them....
knowing that I2a is continuation of I2, that statement just makes no sense at all regardless of actual dates..

if I settled an area, how can you be equally native as my grandgrandson by arriving there when he was born?

no, thats not what i said. I said I2 was before all of them and I2a was at a similar time with J2

 

[zanipolo]

Ah yeah, I see now what you meant.



I didn't imply that you would make such a claim, nor that it was necessarily somebody in this thread. But, as you know, strange claims about ancient and/or poorly-attested languages happened before on this forum, so I thought a general warning advance was appropriate.

how true on strange claims, like someone thinks I am from the USA, i do have dual nationality but not one is USA or albanian, greek, slav

 

[how yes no 2]

or the opposite and the acceptance of moravian by Serbs !!!!!!!!!!!!

you are not following the storyline...
point was in sharing that suffix with both illyrian and czech,,,
so where does it come from - from Illyrian or from bohemia?
isn't simplest explanation the Scordisci/Serdi moving along Danube?
note that according to Strabo Scordisci lived mixed with Illyrians.... Scordisci/Serdi/Serbi moving along Danube would neatly explain both inclusion of illyrian language feature in Czech and Serbian, and E-V13 rather uniformly spread in Serbs indicating older substratum...


Why wouldn't Serdi be same people as Serbi (many older Serb documents write own tribal name as Serbi instead of Srbi as it is correct today) perhaps with language change from celtic to thracian/russian? why wouldn't thracian be same as russian especially knowing that Rasena (Etruscans) are by Greeks called Thyrsenians... thus, using preffix Th in front of Rs of rasena..

wouldnot that be easy explanation? especially if we know that only historic source that writes about settlement of Serbs on Balkan claims they came from Bohemia (that in their language they call Boika) where they have also originally dwelt...


I2a in Europe has sources in Galicia (Gals = Celts), in Bohemia (cradle of Celtic Boii) and in Serbs and Croats...
why would not be valid hypothesis that genetically Serbs origin from Scordisci/Boii (scordisci = ser (head, main, leading)+ boii) and Croats from Helveti?

why is it always assumed that Celts and other inhabitants of Central and east Europe disappeared without trace, and that Slavs came out of thin air... that makes no sense and also genetics doesnot support it...

also in linguistics there is theory of Mario Alinei who based on many features of languages claims that languages in Europe are more or less where they were in distant past as well...

thing is it is very simple.. Thracians (I do not speak about coastal areas that wereGreek settled) and related Dacians were R1a proto-Slavs and Balts... Celtic I2a streched along Danube from Bohemia to Black sea and Asia minor.... E-V13 and R1b Dardanians were in Kosovo, E-V1 and J2b Illyrians and Greeks further south and west...


with Roman spread, as attested in Russian primary chronicle, all those people moved a bit to north... e.g. Helveti went to Galicia, Scordisci following Danube to Bohemia, Thracians following Black sea to Volga, Dacians to Baltic...

Celtic I2a2 Veneti merged into Slavs....
Celtic I2a2 Serbs and Croats merged into Slavs....

with Roman empire decline some of the same people spread to south...Scordisci/Serdi went back down the Danube... Bulgarians from Volga to Thrace...Croats from Galicia to Dalmatia... sounds as pretty reasonable scenario to me...

 

[zanipolo]

you are not following the storyline...
point was in sharing that suffix with both illyrian and czech,,,
so where does it come from - from Illyrian or from bohemia?
isn't simplest explanation the Scordisci/Serdi moving along Danube?
note that according to Strabo Scordisci lived mixed with Illyrians.... Scordisci/Serdi/Serbi moving along Danube would neatly explain both inclusion of illyrian language feature in Czech and Serbian, and E-V13 rather uniformly spread in Serbs indicating older substratum...


Why wouldn't Serdi be same people as Serbi (many older Serb documents write own tribal name as Serbi instead of Srbi as it is correct today) perhaps with language change from celtic to thracian/russian? why wouldn't thracian be same as russian especially knowing that Rasena (Etruscans) are by Greeks called Thyrsenians... thus, using preffix Th in front of Rs of rasena..

wouldnot that be easy explanation? especially if we know that only historic source that writes about settlement of Serbs on Balkan claims they came from Bohemia (that in their language they call Boika) where they have also originally dwelt...


I2a in Europe has sources in Galicia (Gals = Celts), in Bohemia (cradle of Celtic Boii) and in Serbs and Croats...
why would not be valid hypothesis that genetically Serbs origin from Scordisci/Boii (scordisci = ser (head, main, leading)+ boii) and Croats from Helveti?

why is it always assumed that Celts and other inhabitants of Central and east Europe disappeared without trace, and that Slavs came out of thin air... that makes no sense and also genetics doesnot support it...

also in linguistics there is theory of Mario Alinei who based on many features of languages claims that languages in Europe are more or less where they were in distant past as well...

thing is it is very simple.. Thracians (I do not speak about coastal areas that wereGreek settled) and related Dacians were R1a proto-Slavs and Balts... Celtic I2a streched along Danube from Bohemia to Black sea and Asia minor.... E-V13 and R1b Dardanians were in Kosovo, E-V1 and J2b Illyrians and Greeks further south and west...


with Roman spread, as attested in Russian primary chronicle, all those people moved a bit to north... e.g. Helveti went to Galicia, Scordisci following Danube to Bohemia, Thracians following Black sea to Volga, Dacians to Baltic...

Celtic I2a2 Veneti merged into Slavs....
Celtic I2a2 Serbs and Croats merged into Slavs....

with Roman empire decline some of the same people spread to south...Scordisci/Serdi went back down the Danube... Bulgarians from Volga to Thrace...Croats from Galicia to Dalmatia... sounds as pretty reasonable scenario to me...

As I stated before, the ancient languages are extinct
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Balkan_languages

you can surmise what you want, but you have a better chance matching serb with germanic, than with celtic.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The first mention of the name "Serbs" appears in the 1st century BC (69- 75), in the Historia naturalis by Plinius Caecilius Secundus, who states that Serbs (Serbi) live on the coast of the Black Sea. In the 2nd century, Claudius Ptolomaius writes in his Geographica that Serbs (Serboi, Sirboi - Serboi, Sirboi) live behind the Caucasus, near the hinterland of the Black Sea. The first mention of the Serbian name on their present ethnical location appears in 822, in the work of Frank chronicler Einhardt (Annales regni Francorum). [/FONT]

 

[LeBrok]

Now, for explanation the text written above can be transliterated best into Greek letters as:

"ΑΡΤΕΒΥΘΖΒΡΟΨΘΥΙ"

(though Ψ stands for "Chi" and not "Psi")

Which transliterates as:

"Artebuthzbrokhthui"

Now, the Etruscan alphabet did not distinguish between voiced/unvoiced stop consonants, but distinguished between unaspirated/aspirated stop consonants. Celtic languages did distinguish between voiced/unvoiced stop consonants but didn't know aspiration. So what the Celts did was using aspirated stop consonants as voiced ones (Th = D, Kh = G). Which hence yields:

"Artebudz Brogdui"

"Arte-" means "bear", compare:
Gaulish "Artos"
Old Irish "Art"
Welsh "Arth"
Breton "Arzh"

"-budz" means "penis"

I've read the word "Artebuthzbrokhthui" and I immediately knew it had something to do with penis. You can find word "hui" still depicted in polish mural "art". :grin:
No we know that Noric was Slavic.

 

[Dagne]

1) zemlja/zema = land

1a) mati = mother

zema+mati+ja (suffix used often for lands) = (z)ematija
so ematheia could mean stg. like homeland...

How funny, there is indeed a land called Žemaitija but it is not in the Balkans and in the Baltic.
Žemaitija means lowland žemas (low is derived from žemė-terra).
Žemaičiai were the most stubborn people who lived in buggy forest in the Western part of Lithuania between Prussia and Livonia near the sea. On the map it is called in Latin Samogitia.

Žemaičiai successfully fought against much more powerful Teutonic knights for more than 200 years and never got conquered though Lithuanian Rulers donated Žemaitija or a part of it to Teutonic Order during various negotiations as many as six times. Žemaičiai were converted into Christianity last in Europe and their language is hardy comprehensible for proper Lithuanians.

 

[iapetoc]

no, thats not what i said. I said I2 was before all of them and I2a was at a similar time with J2

correct in fact they both came from IJ Dna i know and probably from same area
something like twins at early times,

 

[Taranis]

why is it always assumed that Celts and other inhabitants of Central and east Europe disappeared without trace, and that Slavs came out of thin air... that makes no sense and also genetics doesnot support it...

Well, they disappeared "without a trace" because they were conquered by other peoples, principally by the Romans. What remained of the Celtic-speaking peoples north of the Danube was absorbed by Germanic peoples. There are actually multiple references to this in various sources (Strabo, in particular, but also Ptolemy) how this happened.

also in linguistics there is theory of Mario Alinei who based on many features of languages claims that languages in Europe are more or less where they were in distant past as well...

Mario Alinei is a complete retard who claims that Indo-European languages in Europe can be traced back into the Paleolithic, which is, frankly, complete bullshit that is non-consistent with what we see in the language family. PIE was spoken much, much later. It makes no sense for Paleolithic hunter-gatherers to have words for horses, cows or agriculture if horse and cows had not been domesticated yet and agriculture had not been invented yet. :useless:

with Roman spread, as attested in Russian primary chronicle, all those people moved a bit to north... e.g. Helveti went to Galicia, Scordisci following Danube to Bohemia, Thracians following Black sea to Volga, Dacians to Baltic...

Please stop making up such nonsense. It totally defies any reality:

From Tacitus (Germania, XXVIII) we learn that the Helveti originally (before 1st century BC) lived in the approximate area of what is today Württemberg. Ptolemy (book 2, chapter 10) refers to this area as "Helvetian Desert". In the wake of the Gallic Wars, they migrated into Gaul but were defeated and their remnants settled down in what today is Switzerland and were subsequently latinized, and were later conquered by the Germanic Alemanni.

We have a similar story with the (Bohemian) Boii who were first ravaged by the Cimbri in the late 2nd century BC, and subsequently conquered by the Marcomanni in the 1st century BC. Strabo (in Book 7, Chapter 1.5) also makes reference to a "Boian desert".

All Celtic tribes south of the Danube (Vindelici, Norici, Pannonian Boii, Scordisci, etc.) were conquered by the Romans and became subsequently latinized.

With exception of the Cotini in the western Carpathians (mentioned by Tacitus at XLIII - and also Ptolemy book 2, chapter 10), there were no Celtic-speaking peoples remaining north of the Danube by 2nd century AD because whatever remained of them was absorbed by the Germanic peoples.

 

[iapetoc]

How funny, there is indeed a land called Žemaitija but it is not in the Balkans and in the Baltic.
Žemaitija means lowland žemas (low is derived from žemė-terra).
Žemaičiai were the most stubborn people who lived in buggy forest in the Western part of Lithuania between Prussia and Livonia near the sea. On the map it is called in Latin Samogitia.

Žemaičiai successfully fought against much more powerful Teutonic knights for more than 200 years and never got conquered though Lithuanian Rulers donated Žemaitija or a part of it to Teutonic Order during various negotiations as many as six times. Žemaičiai were converted into Christianity last in Europe and their language is hardy comprehensible for proper Lithuanians.

well there is another another explanation also
the mat from and theia
Mat means area land in Pelasgian compare it with Middle east
there are many Mat in Anatolia and levant and middle east
Mat Theia = land of Gods