Disciplining children...

jus_defy

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Back in the mid '80s in Michigan we had a Japanese doctor and his wife and young son visiting. They had a unique way of disciplining their son "Moppi" in that they didn't discipline him so he was quite the terror. At that time it was the trend among parents..to not begin disciplining young children until they were older. I was wondering, in general, how parents discipline their kids...maybe I could get some ideas on getting mine to listen to me for once. In public I scold them thru gritted teeth and pinch them to get my point across since spanking might send some "nosey-do-gooder" might report me to child protective services.
 
According to every state in the United States...Spanking is not abuse and is no reason for CPS to be called. You are within your every right to spank your children...that is your call. Just remember to never spank when your angry...and there is a fine line between spankings and abuse.

I have a 3 year old son and have been diciplining him since he was 6 months old...Could not wait. The longer you wait the harder it is.

This is just an analogy!!! Raising children is like raising a dog.

If you do not train them to do things the way society says is right (make them be good) they will not. Humans are the only animal born with no instincts. We have to be taught EVERYTHING.

Just as teaching begins at birth...so should discipline.

I believe in Time Out and Groundings and Spankings.
You will not find a better 3 year old than my son.
 
Only if you leave marks or use anything other than your hand.
 
Well, if we are ever in Iowa..

I'm not going to take any chances...wonder HOW those people who are against spanking expect to discipline their children?
 
I have no idea...Personally, a undisciplined child is a 'wild' child. I joke with my wife, when we see a 'wild' child, that leash laws should be inforced for some children.
 
wonder how kids are disciplined in schools there?

Obviously, over here spankings or any type of physical disciplining are not allowed. Bassam's teacher has a difficult time with him at times and the only thing she can do is send him to the principal's office (fortunately he has only been there once). When they go into first grade on up the form of discipline is "ticket-writing". Kind of like traffic violations. At the end of the month, the one with no tickets gets a reward and possibly recognition. Boy, when I went to school I was very respectful of my teachers and any scolding, no matter how trivial, would make me feel so shamed that, in most cases, I would never repeat the offense again. I guess nowadays kids don't have that fear and respect toward teachers and others like them. I wonder if it is the same in Japan. I also like the idea of uniforms for all. May not eliminate "cliques" but at least there'd be no judging amongst themselves due to clothing brands.
 
Re: wonder how kids are disciplined in schools there?

jus_defy said:
I also like the idea of uniforms for all. May not eliminate "cliques" but at least there'd be no judging amongst themselves due to clothing brands.

One, there would be judging on looks. If you saw a really ugly girl in nice designer clothes would you give her your number? I wouldn't, and I bet you five bucks that wasen't even thought of as a reason when they enforced the whole uniform idea.

(since that took it toally off the subject of discipline, i'll put it back)

School regulations in Japan are not standardized. Each elementary and secondary school establishes its own. Junior-high schools tend to have the most.

1. Boys' hair should not touch the eyebrows, the ears, or the top of the collar.

2. No one should have a permanent wave, or dye his or her hair. Girls should not wear ribbons or accessories in their hair. Hair dryers should not be used.

3. School uniform skirts should be __ centimeters above the ground, no more and no less. (This differs by school and region.)

4. Keep your uniform clean and pressed at all times. Girls' middy blouses should have two buttons on the back collar. Boys' pants cuffs should be of the prescribed width. No moer than twelve eyelets should be on shoes. The number of buttons on a shirt and tucks in a skirt are also prescribed.

5. Wear your school badge at all times. It should be positioned exactly.

6. Going to school in the morning, wear your book bag strap on the right shoulder, in the afternoon on the way home, wear it on the left shoulder. Your book case thickness filled and unfilled is also prescribed.

7. Girls should wear only regulation white underpants of 100% cotton.

8. When you raise your hand to be called on, your arm should extend forward and up at the angle prescribed in the hand book. (shown photo.)

9. Your own route to school is marked in your student rule handbook; observe carefully which side of each street you are to use on the way to and from school.

10. After school you are to go directly home, unless your parent has written a note permitting you to go to another location. Permission will not be granted by the school unless this location is a suitable one. You must not go to coffee shops. You must be home by __ __ o'clock.

11. It is not permitted to drive or ride a motorcycle, or to have a license to drive one.

12. Before and after school, no matter where you are, you represent our school so you should behave in ways we can all be proud of.

[ actualy excerpts from a handbook for students at a Tokyo middle school. figures are shown in Figures A. 1 through A.3 these include dress regulations on how to position badges and tie fasteners on the girls' middy blouse, how to wear the handbag (over right shoulder on the way to school, over left on the way home) and also regulations on the path to take as you near school. ]

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One Yokohama highschool senior has learned what she dosen't want, from her working mother's example:

"I think housekeeping such a pain. I never want to be a housewife busy only with housekeeping and bringing up babies . . . as mother works outside, I believe housework is not the only thing women should do . . . but i don't think i can manage both a job and a family, so i will work and not have a family. I don't want to be like my mother, being alone is best because I can be free. "

Attitude toward fathers in Japan seems to have changed much more than attitudes to mothers. Since children rarely see their fathers at work, and see them only on "off time," exhausted and relaxing, they know very little of what they do. Indeed, a Japanese teen sometimes knows only the name of his father's company, not what he does there. Thus there is some distance, and a sense of unreality with ergar to fathers, while mother's work at home is at least visible , whether or not she also works outside the home. The father-child relationship in Japan used to be "terrible, like earthquake and thunder," but the discipline and role-model functions have atrophied along with his persence and energy at home. Mothers, over all, even working mothers, have more influence.

In an international comparison of attitudes about the ideal mother and father, most Japanese respondents (between the ages of eighteen and twenty-four feel that a good father is more like a friends (56.4 percent) than distant and strict (31.3 percent). Seventy percent of american youth want a friend-father, and only 15 perfect want a disciplinarian. However, only 58.4 percent of japanese respondents say that a good father considers his family about his job, compared to 81.4 percent of american youth, and only the chinese fall below the japanese in this regard (29.9 percent) In this study, sweden tops the list in preferences for friend-father and fathers who put family before work. There is more agreement about the ideal mother, In the same study, responses show that she is one who puts her family about her work (86.1 percent in Japan, 85.3 percent in the united states, and who is a friend (78.5 percent in japan, 76.2 percent in the united states.)

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It seems as if Japanese youth is disciplined more outside of the house than in it with all the pressures they face in their daily life I think they are more disciplined in a mental sense rather than a physical one, example, they might be forced to study for their highschool exams (one of the scariest things youth face in Japan) and in this time in which they study they'll be forced to not only by their parents but also their school and the thought of a even having a future. I hope this material gives you a little insight on the strictness of japanese school systems and japanese parents in the area of discipline, above has been several quotes from different books.

Josh / Ghetto Cities Clothing (Tokyo Promo)
http://www.geocities.com/ghettocities/

It's 6/21, if you want me to send you my video online ( . mpeg ) , add me to your buddy list on msn, my email is.


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Photos of Nishi-Hachioji.
 
Thank you Josh..

Sounds like the military...actually a bit worse than the military since I was briefly in the army..but to regulate after school activity and which side of the road to walk on?? Boy, if anybody would try to do that here there would be massive protesting and rioting. I didn't know most of that...the regulations and such. thank you.
 
wow...sounds harsh coming from a place where you can come and go and do what ever you please.
 
wow that school is a bit tough and a bit over the top if I may be as bold to say, its even bordering insainity, kids should not be expected to live like that, by such strick rules and regulations, it could only do more harm than good, because once a pupil has left these premises its almost sure that they will go and do all the wrong things just to prove that they can and there is no one to stop them,where has the fun of learning went when theres rules as silly as those above are inforced, thank goodness my schools did not expect that of us(hehe) I would have been permently discharged from eveyone of them(hehe):bluush:
 
deborah gormley said:
wow that school is a bit tough and a bit over the top if I may be as bold to say, its even bordering insainity,

Would you much rather be in an American school and be under tighter lockdown without any intention on making you a better person but rather making it so your safe from all the school-shootings and killings that have happened across america? I find that to be more "bordering insanity"

Though in response to the japanese school system bordering insanity, let me post a quick quote from this book which will forever stay in my mind.

"Newspaper articles report other more flagrant violations of professional behavior such as the incident in July of 1990 when a high school teacher, trying to enforce the schedule, sharply closed the entrance gate at the precise moment of the start of a school day, catching a student's head in the gate and killing her. This case has recently been cited often in Japan as an example of the overreaction by teachers in some schools to the increasing lack of discipline among students and the consequent enforcement of a range of punishing school regulations. Corporal punishment is not unknown, as above, but it is rare, and more common in juku and yobiko and in some private schools, than in ordinary public school classrooms."

It's sad.

Ghettocities Clothing

PS, I couldnt upload my video on geocities.com, if anyone has a site in which i could host one or two of the mpgs that would be great, please email me at : [email protected]

thanks.
 
very true ghettocities, thats an aspect I over looked!!!!:bow:


When I spoke of schools I can only speak from my own personal experinces, lockdowns and shooting at school was unheard of and I still find it hard to beleive(although I know it takes place). The sad reality is pupils are no longer safe at school and it is a place slowly becoming overwhelmed by security and issues of unspeakable terror either enforced by teachers(as that very sad story of the pupil resulting in death) or the pupils themselves carring weapons ect with the intension of useing them, whats happening to the schools???? no-one can tell when a person will for the sake of another word "go over the edge", this is a reality that frightens me and what the solution is I wish I knew!!!! :bow:
 
Over orginization, has always been very Japanese. From the strict patterns of a zen garden, to the forms of a martial art, it is part of their culture. (I do not say it is wrong, nor is it right. It simply is that way.)
As for the control of children, being a minor myself, gives me some in sight. The best way to control a child is to make behaving give more attention then misbehaving. Attention, is the ultimate carrot for the donkies known as children. most Children will do anything for parental attention.
 
I think that the structure is what has always drawn me to the Japanese...
 
I watched a TV program once that put japanese and american schools in comparison with eachother, it was funny to see how strict highschool is in japan, how not strict highschool is in america but then how not strict college is in japan (I frequented a university with friends while in Japan and it seemed even more laid-back so to say than my university) , and how strict american universities are or can be. In reference to what Samuraitora said, "I think that the structure is what has always drawn me to the Japanese." , I feel this also, in the sense that the japanese have a totally different way of doing things, change isn't all necessarily good, i'm not going to point and say Japan is better off than america or vice-versa but Japan itself is just one totally different experience, in this case i don't even see any rules or regulations in schools or home to be strict, only when i put it into comparison do they seem like that, i'm sure to the japanese people, whom live through it will it then seem "normal", rather i, who will not ever fully-understand their culture, but in the meantime i'll savour my youth in every drop of alcohol i consume amongst all that is Japan, a couple drink tokens and a lovehotel with an aquarium will keep me focused on more important things, rather these mind-boggling theories as to why a mom would spank her child, know what i'm saying?

josh -
gtriplec
 
The list of school rules is pretty typical from what I've seen. Although, reality is another difference. Probably all of the above rules are broken by all the students. Even the Catholic Boys School I teach at isn't that strict and most rules go un-attended to. Just plain silly most of them.

Another thread posted about [kawaii] the magazine. It seems that girls will go to extremes to show that they are different than the girl next to them. But still, I bet most of girls still like the uniforms.

Teacher reprimanding is a difficult situation. I haven't heard of any hitting and the verbal situations are normally very level headed and rational explaining why such and such isn't good to do and don't you think so yourself.

I think US schools are prisions compared to Japanese ones. There's no detention, no parental absence notes. Going home early is just a good faking out of the nurse. Skipped class isn't like any big deal (which rarely happens to begin with). You see school kids walking around town at all hours of the morning and afternoon.

So what's the penial code system then?

Embarrassement -- targetting the nail that sticks out, or killing the black sheep. Which does lead to more cases of ijime though.

Parental punishment recently is almost nil. Although, I've heard of kids being locked out of the house or put into a closet. I do hear the occasional, "Don't do that! That's emabarassing."

In general, I see very few monsters running around in stores or crying for a certain candy/toy.

Mother's vs Father's :::
Father's are the bread winners so home control is left to the wife. Finances and children upbringing are her zone of battle. Father is only called in when the mother can't get her point across.
 
My husband and I talked a lot about this.
For us the most important thing is consequence, consistency and transparency.

We started already with about 3 months, when I started structuring the breastfeeding times. There were some indications of "learning". But I still wrote down the natural rhythm of my child and then made a rule out of it and brought in consistency.

Actually I believe that education is more about structuring and disciplining myself than my child. I have to often ask myself what I want to teach my child and than I have to go and disciplin myself to show that behaviour better. Humans react faster on shortterm consequences (positive or when negative consequences are taken away). Unfortunately it's the longterm consequences that really count. So in education I often have to take the "harder" road for myself to get to the longterm results I'm aspiring.

For me it's a balance between consequence and consistency and helping develop the child in his own way and giving freedom.
 
Define "discipline?" Both as a small child and now, as a freedom-loving individual, I refuse to obey anyone or anything but the order of the Court and the legitimate, democratic Government and the just laws it adopts. If the Government is unjust and undemocratic I shall choose between resisting it and leaving the country.
 
According to every state in the United States...Spanking is not abuse and is no reason for CPS to be called. You are within your every right to spank your children...that is your call. Just remember to never spank when your angry...and there is a fine line between spankings and abuse.

I have a 3 year old son and have been diciplining him since he was 6 months old...Could not wait. The longer you wait the harder it is.

This is just an analogy!!! Raising children is like raising a dog.

If you do not train them to do things the way society says is right (make them be good) they will not. Humans are the only animal born with no instincts. We have to be taught EVERYTHING.

Just as teaching begins at birth...so should discipline.

I believe in Time Out and Groundings and Spankings.
You will not find a better 3 year old than my son.

A shameful comparation of a human being with an animal discredits you from any further discussion.

I also ask the administrators to suspend your account because of promoting violence.
 

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