Distribution of G2a in Italy (Boattini et al.)

your assumption is that Cymry is derived from Britonic "combrogi" = "compatriot; Welshman"
but I claim combrogi is coin word from root "com "(meaning "shared" as in common and compatriot) + old welsh brogi (teritory/state)... meaning "shared state" or people living in the same state...

combrogi is not a tribal name.... it is based on the loan word from english...

FROM ENGLISH INDEED ?!?
T
ODAY NAME FOR A WELSH IN WELSH BRITTONIC CELTIC LANGUAGE IS 'CYMRO' <<CYMBRO = ALL CELTIC, BRETON 'KEMBROAD' (SUFFIXATION) - YOUR ARE RIGHT WHEN YOU SAY IT IS NOT AN OLD TRIBAL NAME AND YOU ARE RIGHT FOR THE MEANING BUT YOUR ARE WRONG CONCERNING LANGUAGE-
YOUR CONSTRUCTION WITH 'cyt' OR 'cet' IS FUNNY: YOU DO NOT SEE THAT 'cyt'/'cyd' IN WELSH IS OF THE SAME ROOT LIKE 'cym' and 'cyf' (BRETON 'ked', 'ken', 'kem', 'kev') - THE PREFIX 'com-', 'con', 'co-' IS LATINE, INDO EUROPEAN COGNATE WITH CELTIC BUT THE GERMANIC USE RATHER 'sam' TO INDICATE COMMUNITY / THE NAME 'CYMRO' ('CYMRI' INTERNAL INFECTED PLURIEL) IS CONSIDERED AS THE NAME OF A NEW GROUPING OF TRIBES DISPLACED BY THE ANGLO-SAXONS UNITED TO LOCAL TRIBES OF WESTERN BRITANNIA: YOUR DATATION SEEMS CONFIRM THAT, FAR OF CONFIRMING YOUR ASSERTIONS -
BY THE WAY, SILURI ARE MAYBE NOT A CELTIC TRIBE, MAYBE A MORE OLDER NON-CELTIC ONE
('bro' << 'brog' <> irish 'mruc' >< germanic 'mark' >> french 'marche'/'marque' <> 'marge' < latine 'margo' > new english 'merge'...


what people would base their tribal name/identity on a loan word whose meaning is"common" / "shared"? whole point of tribal names is that they are something that makes them special compared to surroundings...

NOT A LOAN WORD? SEE ABOVE

it is though not uncommon that tribal names have a meaning "people" but that is the case when the word for people is different than in surrounding people.... "common" doesnot fall into that category.... besides its brittish word... welsh word for common are
cytir n.m. (cytiroedd) cyd ..and for "shared" "rhannu"... and for "people" tud n.f. gwerin n.f. (gwerinoedd) pobl

so combrogi is not tribal name carrying identity, but Cymry can be....

LOOK ABOVE - I ADD 'COMBROGI' WAS ALREADY THE NAME OF A GAULIC TRIBE...in ancient Britain Deceangli, Ordovices and Silures are tribal names within Welsh speaking people... but there must be also a common name for tribes speaking same language... why not Cymry?
considering that Welsh language is
originally known as Cymraeg / Gymraeg
neither
Cymraeg nor Gymraeg can be derived from Combrogi
but they are easily derived from Cimmerian/Gommerian


LOOK ABOVE AGAIN

you might be confused by reading that Cymry is attested as early as 7th century...and that attempts for linking it to Cimmerians were attested in 17th century...attested doesnot mean that words and interpretations didnot exist before.... there are not much documents from ancient times...

LOOK ABOVE : JUST THE ANGLO SAXON INVASION PERIOD
Cymry makes no sense as derivation from combrogi... Cimbri might make some sense...but Cimbri are, for all we know, unrelated people in Denmark...
WE DO NOT KNOW AT ALL IF CIMBRIS WERE NOT CELTS - I BELIEVE SOME TECHNICS OF THEIR ARTS REVEALED ACCORDING TO SOMEONES OLD EAST CENTRAL GAULS METHODS AND ALLIAGES - THEIR CHIEFS HAD CELTIC NAMES AND THEIR POSITION IN N-DENMARK IS A FINAL TERMINAL PLACE AFTER WANDERING - IT IS NOT TO SAY THEIR TRIBE NAME IS THE SAME AS CYMRY BECAUSE AT THIS TIME THE 'COM' WAS NOT TURNED INTO 'CYM' (pronounced [kÖM] for your "edification" - I THINK THEY WERE BELGAE CELTS, A BET OF MINE;



no Ambiani in Italy... you prob think of Umbrians...

SORRY, I MADE A MISTAKE! DO NOT TAKE MY PREVIOUS REMARK IN ACCOUNT


G2 was widespread in Europe in neolithics...
but it would not survive arrival of new haplogroups (that have replaced G2a throughout Europe) in places that are not isolated and mountainous....
so spreads on not isolated places are likely to be more recent waves...
if you do not believe in several waves of G2a throughout history, just look at Alans...they did bring considerable G2a to Spain....

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THESE SWEAPING THESIS, SORRY - OLD Y-G2a NEOLITHICAL BEARERS STAYED IN PLACE EVEN IF OBLIGED TO SHARE TERRITORIES AND TO MIX AND LOOSE THE STRONG SIDE THEY HAD BEOFRE IN SOME PLACES OF EUROPE NOT EVERYWHERE - I
I AGREE FOR SUBSEQUENT WAVES OF G2a - BUT ALL G2a IN IBERIA IS NOT FROM ALANI PEOPLE
i think I make very reasonable assumption with idea that tribal name patterns as carriers of tribal identity did leave some marks in genetic data....correlations i have shown in posts above are clear...where there is elevated G2a there is often tribal name from haplogroup pattern (Umbrians, Ambiani, Kymris, Cymry and Garumna, Cymraeg/Gymraeg, Cimmerians/Gomerians), when there is no G2a elevation there is no such a name as genuine tribal identity carrier (Germans is exonym assigned in more recent times)...
UMBRIANS AND AMBIANI HAS NOTHING TO DO ONE TOGETHER, AT LEAST AS NAMES - STILL THIS MAGIC LINGUISTIC WORLD

I never mentioned it....
Zanipolo claimed that I2a came to west Balkans with Cimmerians...
I never claimed anything like that.... when I was in past connecting I2a to Cimmerians, I was always relating its arrival to west Balkans mostly with south Slavs and also with Scordisci and Sherdana that followed Danube (and not west Balkans) spreading from continental Europe to east same as Cimmerians did follow the Danube going from Black sea to continental Europe...river valleys are convenient for mass migrations of military dominant people... easy to follow....no unexpected ambushes...

SORRY IF I MISREAD YOU FOR BALKANS AND CIMMERIANS -
ON AN OTHER SIDE, I AM OBLIGED TO CONFESS YOUR TARGET FOR SHARDANA'S SHOOTS ME AND PUT ME ON MY BOTTOM!
I AGRRE WITH YOU CONCERNING RIVERS BUT IT IS SHORT TO EXPLAIN EVERYTHING

links between similar tribal names supported by some shared genetical footprint are much better indication of connection than lot of crap hypothesized by many historians and linguists in past.....

I REPEAT WALES HAVE NO HOTSPOT OF Y-G: IT HAS ONLY A 1% TO 2% MORE THAN OTHER BRITISH PEOPLE ( I DON'T KNOW THE SAMPLE SIZE - A LITTLE BIT MORE OF NEOLITHICAL PEOPLE (SILURI AMONG THEM?) COULD EXPLAIN THAT VERY EASY!!!


my answer are in bold capital letters among the post I answer to it. Sorry for this lack of technicity!
logic is a thing in science, necessary, BUT verification is not too bad too.
 
It's interesting to see how most Italian samples are G2a (P15), most European samples for that matter, and that the hotspot we can see on the map in what is basically today's modern Georgia moving across Turkey and into Europe, most of them are also G2a variety, clearly marking a line of migration. Although it is probably in the darkened regions of Iran on the map that G1 would ultimately have originated. It's interesting to note that europe's highs are now officially recognized as being found in southern Italy; in regions like L'Aquila (21.5%), Campobasso (24%), Matera (25%) and Cosenza/Catanzaro/Crotone (21%). Similar frequencies to this are found nationally among Georgians (31%) and Azerbaijanis (18%) and nearby Turks/Armenians as well. Even higher frequencies are found in the Ossetians, Nakh people's of the Caucasus mountain range (88%!).
 
Clearly evidence of at least minimal gene flow from the Caucasus region towards Mediterranean Europe during the Neolithic, not much else could explain the P15 migration.As for constant evidence of ancient DNA across Central Europe being G, I find that a bit more confusing, maybe they had moved towards Iberia and even into southern Germany, since G comes up more often in DNA analysis of European skeletal remains, maybe this indicates there was less haplogroup variability at the time....either way today, Switzerland has about 2-5% hg G and same for southern Germany, so it is a very minor italy element, compared to southern Italy for example. Very low frequencies are experienced across most of Europe, but peaks can be found among Aromun Albanians (7-10%), European Ashkenazi Jews (10%), 8% of Catalonian Spanish males, 8% of hungarians, 9-10% of Greeks, 11% of Cretans, 10% of Italians, 20% of northern Sardinians, 15% of southern Sardinians, 15-20% of southern Italians and 13-15% of west Sicilians.
 
It seems that G'smeuopean expansion may. Have been bigger once but was cut down to size by certain unknown events, either way, a high in south eastern/central Mediterranean Europe certain southern italian,Sardinian, Cretan/Greek regions seem to have slightly inflated levels. In the CAUCASUS region in particular, 30-40% of Abazinian males have G. The Abkhaz have between 0-56% in their studies. The Adygey people have 28-81%. Armenians have 10-30% and Azeris have about 20%. Ossetians have 55-75%, Rutuls have 38%, Georgians have 30% etc.
 
It seems that G'smeuopean expansion may. Have been bigger once but was cut down to size by certain unknown events, either way, a high in south eastern/central Mediterranean Europe certain southern italian,Sardinian, Cretan/Greek regions seem to have slightly inflated levels. In the CAUCASUS region in particular, 30-40% of Abazinian males have G. The Abkhaz have between 0-56% in their studies. The Adygey people have 28-81%. Armenians have 10-30% and Azeris have about 20%. Ossetians have 55-75%, Rutuls have 38%, Georgians have 30% etc.

The climate related population collapse of cultures like LBK in central Europe could explain the tapering off of G2a, along with the entrance of other population groups from the east.
 
That's correct.
 
G-L497
Spatial frequency distribution of the median HT cluster specific for haplogroup G-L497 in Europe. The frequency data were obtained by a search in the YHRD (release 41) and comprise 260 samples belonging to the median HT cluster found in 34,386 samples from 173 European population samples (sample size > 50). The sample locations are indicated by “+”.



Clearly G2a3 hg did not come by boat to north Italy








interesting map - but what weight have this downstream SNP among western Y-G2a? and what is the value of this 'median' STR ??? before answer I need to know that -
that said, Austria and Switzerland, by their position, could have received G2a from maritime-" then rhodanian" cardial (subsequent cultures from cardial are attested archeologically and anthropologicaly in Switzerland) and from "fluvial" danubian neolithicers, no big surprise -
 

interesting map - but what weight have this downstream SNP among western Y-G2a? and what is the value of this 'median' STR ??? before answer I need to know that -
that said, Austria and Switzerland, by their position, could have received G2a from maritime-" then rhodanian" cardial (subsequent cultures from cardial are attested archeologically and anthropologicaly in Switzerland) and from "fluvial" danubian neolithicers, no big surprise -


that map represents only 1 SNP and that is G-L497 ...........stated that it was created by the Raeti in the alps
 
The biggest high of G in Greece is found in the Thessaly region of central Greece were 12% of men belong to G. Much of th rest of the country has 4-8% frequencies.
 
G-L497
Spatial frequency distribution of the median HT cluster specific for haplogroup G-L497 in Europe. The frequency data were obtained by a search in the YHRD (release 41) and comprise 260 samples belonging to the median HT cluster found in 34,386 samples from 173 European population samples (sample size > 50). The sample locations are indicated by “+”.



Clearly G2a3 hg did not come by boat to north Italy

I 'm late to answer this:
this STR based figure provides NO trail at first sight - and the bipolar occupation in NW and NE Italy BUT NOT in NC Italy is intriguing too so?
one can answer me the former trail was erased by subsequent invasions, it is possible - but the fact is: this figure speaks for A PART (only) of the Y-G2a3
what is more informative is the GLOBAL difference of SNPs with Otzi and Corsicans-Sardinians that are more "maritime"like - (look at other thread about G2) -but In think now that, yes, this G2a are more continental than maritime
 
What is the relationship between Italian G2a and Caucasian G2a ? My tests told me i was 80% Italian, but I talked to the local Geneticist and he said "by that analysis we're all 80% Italian" He says that's only due to the lack of data and it would be just as accurate/inaccurate if they give all Italian G2a's 80% Georgian origin.
 
What is the relationship between Italian G2a and Caucasian G2a ? My tests told me i was 80% Italian, but I talked to the local Geneticist and he said "by that analysis we're all 80% Italian" He says that's only due to the lack of data and it would be just as accurate/inaccurate if they give all Italian G2a's 80% Georgian origin.

It is EXTREMELY unlikely that a Georgian comes out as 80% autosomally Italian.

I think you may be confused about uniparental markers like your yDna and autosomal dna. They are very different.

Please go to one of the threads that has posts about Georgian autosomal dna, or you could start one and post the results from the tests you took. Genealogy is very different from genetics.

There are various sub-groups of G2a in Italy, some more "Central European", some Anatolian etc.

Ray Banks is very knowledgeable. This might be helpful.
https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupgproject/
 
Oh no > livingDNA has 3 different results. Autosomal (on which I am 55.9% Italian)

However what I was mentioning above was my Y results. But I just went there to check again and it seems to have changed(do they change these results over time?) It used to say 80% Italy and 20% Eastern Europe, now it is more specific and diverse. Also I can't find my exact strand on Ray Banks I've looked.
 
Oh no > livingDNA has 3 different results. Autosomal (on which I am 55.9% Italian)

However what I was mentioning above was my Y results. But I just went there to check again and it seems to have changed(do they change these results over time?) It used to say 80% Italy and 20% Eastern Europe, now it is more specific and diverse. Also I can't find my exact strand on Ray Banks I've looked.

Could you please post a screen shot of the LivingDNA page which tells you that? I knew they were terrible, but this terrible? :)
 
Oh no > livingDNA has 3 different results. Autosomal (on which I am 55.9% Italian)

However what I was mentioning above was my Y results. But I just went there to check again and it seems to have changed(do they change these results over time?) It used to say 80% Italy and 20% Eastern Europe, now it is more specific and diverse. Also I can't find my exact strand on Ray Banks I've looked.


I already thought before tonight that LivingDNA was not very accurate, but if this result you say is true is the ultimate proof that Autosomal result of LivingDNA is a big joke.



Could you please post a screen shot of the LivingDNA page which tells you that? I knew they were terrible, but this terrible? :)


The autosomal results of LivingDNA are very inaccurate. Maybe it works well with the British and a few others but for many other ethnic groups it gives imaginative and unbelievable results.
 
I already thought before tonight that LivingDNA was not very accurate, but if this result you say is true is the ultimate proof that Autosomal result of LivingDNA is a big joke.






The autosomal results of LivingDNA are very inaccurate. Maybe it works well with the British and a few others but for many other ethnic groups it gives imaginative and unbelievable results.

If our new member isn't misinterpreting it, they should get sued for malpractice! :)

That's why I'd like to see the actual screenshot.
 
Umm, this forum is a pain in the neck. It wont allow me to make posts properly because I don't have 10 posts yet :( It's blocking any link i post, I guess it's a spam deterrent.

But yea As soon as I get to 10 I'll post pics.


Yea I knew it was a joke because they have no designation for Caucasus countries but they instead say "Northeast Turkey" aka Turkified Georgian region with same dna as Caucasus. And "northwest Caucaus". my %s are divided between the two. Georgian Geneticist who works in the Tbilisi medical university had a good laugh at me after he saw my haplogroup and compared it to the results. It seems my Ydna is most common in western Georgia but not according to LivingDNA.

Edit: I can PM you and you post it.
 
If our new member isn't misinterpreting it, they should get sued for malpractice! :)

That's why I'd like to see the actual screenshot.

LivingDNA is so inaccurate with so many ethnic groups that these results could also be true, because of LivingDNa which is not accurate. Obviously even if true these results remain not at all credible.
 
Oh no > livingDNA has 3 different results. Autosomal (on which I am 55.9% Italian)

However what I was mentioning above was my Y results. But I just went there to check again and it seems to have changed(do they change these results over time?) It used to say 80% Italy and 20% Eastern Europe, now it is more specific and diverse. Also I can't find my exact strand on Ray Banks I've looked.
Are you Georgian?
The result with so much Italian is incredible. I am much closer to Italy and I do not even have 15% of what you have ... and those probably swollen. Not even many Italians have so many percent of Italy. lol ...
 
Are you Georgian?
The result with so much Italian is incredible. I am much closer to Italy and I do not even have 10% of what you have ... and those probably swollen. Not even many Italians have so many percent of Italy. lol ...
Yes I can trace at least 6 generations of paternal grandparents to my ancestral village... and beyond that it's traced by last names which in my case is native to that region.
 

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