MOESAN
Elite member
- Messages
- 6,008
- Reaction score
- 1,387
- Points
- 113
- Location
- Brittany
- Ethnic group
- more celtic
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b - L21/S145*
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H3c
your assumption is that Cymry is derived from Britonic "combrogi" = "compatriot; Welshman"
but I claim combrogi is coin word from root "com "(meaning "shared" as in common and compatriot) + old welsh brogi (teritory/state)... meaning "shared state" or people living in the same state...
combrogi is not a tribal name.... it is based on the loan word from english...
FROM ENGLISH INDEED ?!?
TODAY NAME FOR A WELSH IN WELSH BRITTONIC CELTIC LANGUAGE IS 'CYMRO' <<CYMBRO = ALL CELTIC, BRETON 'KEMBROAD' (SUFFIXATION) - YOUR ARE RIGHT WHEN YOU SAY IT IS NOT AN OLD TRIBAL NAME AND YOU ARE RIGHT FOR THE MEANING BUT YOUR ARE WRONG CONCERNING LANGUAGE-
YOUR CONSTRUCTION WITH 'cyt' OR 'cet' IS FUNNY: YOU DO NOT SEE THAT 'cyt'/'cyd' IN WELSH IS OF THE SAME ROOT LIKE 'cym' and 'cyf' (BRETON 'ked', 'ken', 'kem', 'kev') - THE PREFIX 'com-', 'con', 'co-' IS LATINE, INDO EUROPEAN COGNATE WITH CELTIC BUT THE GERMANIC USE RATHER 'sam' TO INDICATE COMMUNITY / THE NAME 'CYMRO' ('CYMRI' INTERNAL INFECTED PLURIEL) IS CONSIDERED AS THE NAME OF A NEW GROUPING OF TRIBES DISPLACED BY THE ANGLO-SAXONS UNITED TO LOCAL TRIBES OF WESTERN BRITANNIA: YOUR DATATION SEEMS CONFIRM THAT, FAR OF CONFIRMING YOUR ASSERTIONS -
BY THE WAY, SILURI ARE MAYBE NOT A CELTIC TRIBE, MAYBE A MORE OLDER NON-CELTIC ONE
('bro' << 'brog' <> irish 'mruc' >< germanic 'mark' >> french 'marche'/'marque' <> 'marge' < latine 'margo' > new english 'merge'...
what people would base their tribal name/identity on a loan word whose meaning is"common" / "shared"? whole point of tribal names is that they are something that makes them special compared to surroundings...
NOT A LOAN WORD? SEE ABOVE
it is though not uncommon that tribal names have a meaning "people" but that is the case when the word for people is different than in surrounding people.... "common" doesnot fall into that category.... besides its brittish word... welsh word for common are
cytir n.m. (cytiroedd) cyd ..and for "shared" "rhannu"... and for "people" tud n.f. gwerin n.f. (gwerinoedd) pobl
so combrogi is not tribal name carrying identity, but Cymry can be....
LOOK ABOVE - I ADD 'COMBROGI' WAS ALREADY THE NAME OF A GAULIC TRIBE...in ancient Britain Deceangli, Ordovices and Silures are tribal names within Welsh speaking people... but there must be also a common name for tribes speaking same language... why not Cymry?
considering that Welsh language is originally known as Cymraeg / Gymraeg
neither Cymraeg nor Gymraeg can be derived from Combrogi
but they are easily derived from Cimmerian/Gommerian
LOOK ABOVE AGAIN
you might be confused by reading that Cymry is attested as early as 7th century...and that attempts for linking it to Cimmerians were attested in 17th century...attested doesnot mean that words and interpretations didnot exist before.... there are not much documents from ancient times...
LOOK ABOVE : JUST THE ANGLO SAXON INVASION PERIOD
Cymry makes no sense as derivation from combrogi... Cimbri might make some sense...but Cimbri are, for all we know, unrelated people in Denmark...
WE DO NOT KNOW AT ALL IF CIMBRIS WERE NOT CELTS - I BELIEVE SOME TECHNICS OF THEIR ARTS REVEALED ACCORDING TO SOMEONES OLD EAST CENTRAL GAULS METHODS AND ALLIAGES - THEIR CHIEFS HAD CELTIC NAMES AND THEIR POSITION IN N-DENMARK IS A FINAL TERMINAL PLACE AFTER WANDERING - IT IS NOT TO SAY THEIR TRIBE NAME IS THE SAME AS CYMRY BECAUSE AT THIS TIME THE 'COM' WAS NOT TURNED INTO 'CYM' (pronounced [kÖM] for your "edification" - I THINK THEY WERE BELGAE CELTS, A BET OF MINE;
no Ambiani in Italy... you prob think of Umbrians...
SORRY, I MADE A MISTAKE! DO NOT TAKE MY PREVIOUS REMARK IN ACCOUNT
G2 was widespread in Europe in neolithics...
but it would not survive arrival of new haplogroups (that have replaced G2a throughout Europe) in places that are not isolated and mountainous....
so spreads on not isolated places are likely to be more recent waves...
if you do not believe in several waves of G2a throughout history, just look at Alans...they did bring considerable G2a to Spain....
I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THESE SWEAPING THESIS, SORRY - OLD Y-G2a NEOLITHICAL BEARERS STAYED IN PLACE EVEN IF OBLIGED TO SHARE TERRITORIES AND TO MIX AND LOOSE THE STRONG SIDE THEY HAD BEOFRE IN SOME PLACES OF EUROPE NOT EVERYWHERE - I
I AGREE FOR SUBSEQUENT WAVES OF G2a - BUT ALL G2a IN IBERIA IS NOT FROM ALANI PEOPLE i think I make very reasonable assumption with idea that tribal name patterns as carriers of tribal identity did leave some marks in genetic data....correlations i have shown in posts above are clear...where there is elevated G2a there is often tribal name from haplogroup pattern (Umbrians, Ambiani, Kymris, Cymry and Garumna, Cymraeg/Gymraeg, Cimmerians/Gomerians), when there is no G2a elevation there is no such a name as genuine tribal identity carrier (Germans is exonym assigned in more recent times)...
UMBRIANS AND AMBIANI HAS NOTHING TO DO ONE TOGETHER, AT LEAST AS NAMES - STILL THIS MAGIC LINGUISTIC WORLD
I never mentioned it....
Zanipolo claimed that I2a came to west Balkans with Cimmerians...
I never claimed anything like that.... when I was in past connecting I2a to Cimmerians, I was always relating its arrival to west Balkans mostly with south Slavs and also with Scordisci and Sherdana that followed Danube (and not west Balkans) spreading from continental Europe to east same as Cimmerians did follow the Danube going from Black sea to continental Europe...river valleys are convenient for mass migrations of military dominant people... easy to follow....no unexpected ambushes...
SORRY IF I MISREAD YOU FOR BALKANS AND CIMMERIANS -
ON AN OTHER SIDE, I AM OBLIGED TO CONFESS YOUR TARGET FOR SHARDANA'S SHOOTS ME AND PUT ME ON MY BOTTOM!
I AGRRE WITH YOU CONCERNING RIVERS BUT IT IS SHORT TO EXPLAIN EVERYTHING
links between similar tribal names supported by some shared genetical footprint are much better indication of connection than lot of crap hypothesized by many historians and linguists in past.....
I REPEAT WALES HAVE NO HOTSPOT OF Y-G: IT HAS ONLY A 1% TO 2% MORE THAN OTHER BRITISH PEOPLE ( I DON'T KNOW THE SAMPLE SIZE - A LITTLE BIT MORE OF NEOLITHICAL PEOPLE (SILURI AMONG THEM?) COULD EXPLAIN THAT VERY EASY!!!
my answer are in bold capital letters among the post I answer to it. Sorry for this lack of technicity!
logic is a thing in science, necessary, BUT verification is not too bad too.