Diversity of Phenotypes in Europe

HereToLearn said:
Lombards, Tuscans etc. as basically Anatolian / Iranian mix?? Am I reading that well?
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Yes you are, there's about 9% non-steppe-related CHG/Iran_N in Lombards according to recent qpAdm results.

Here's another study showing more of the same, Sarno et al. 2021

This comes to a surprise to a lot of people on twitter I noticed, because they aren't aware of the fact that G25 is garbage.
GGEWa_3WIAAKmZc.jpg

I have also tested it myself showing consistent results, in qpAdm:

2aVxeGS.png


mLP2aQv.png
 
HereToLearn said:
I guess it also comes as a surprise because Lombards, Tuscans etc. don't really look Iranian/Turkish.
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Both Iranian/Turkish people and Northern Italians have diverse phenotypes.

Also who mentioned Turks? They're enriched by different groups from Anatolians.

75%-90% of Northerners have dark hair, the map somewhat misleads the facts by showing a BRIGHT YELLOW for 20-25%, and BLACK for 0-2.5%. (both being extreme minorities) It is a statistical fallacy/misrepresentation, made to evoke a certain perception.

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Jovialis said:
Both Iranian/Turkish people and Northern Italians have diverse phenotypes.

Also who mentioned Turks? They're enriched by different groups from Anatolians.

75%-85% of Northerners have dark hair:
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Northern Italians are not that diverse phenotypically, really. Not more diverse than (and different to) any other European people living at the same latitudes.

Point taken, "Anatolian", although it does not change the sense of my observation.

Also who's talking about hair colour?
 
HereToLearn said:
Northern Italians are not that diverse phenotypically, really. Not more diverse than (and different to) any other European people living at the same latitudes.

Point taken, "Anatolian", although it the sense of my observation stands.

Also who's talking about hair colour?
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They're also not uniform in their phenotype, for example someone like Salvini could pass for a stereotypical Sicilian imo.
 
HereToLearn said:
So? Even Rowan Atkinson could.
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Well, that's sort of my point.

Phenotypes are diverse.

9% non-steppe-CHG would probably influence phenotypes less than say 30% in some parts of the south. Though It still comes through, and has some influence I would think. Steppe_EMBA is 40% CHG, so it definitely would affect phenotype I would think. In reality, one would combine the Steppe-related, and non-steppe related influence of CHG/IN. Some people like to subsume the CHG in Steppe because it violates their warped sensibilities, but it is in fact there. Norwegians are the most steppe, which in turn also makes them the most CHG in Northern Europe.

However, Anatolia_N would absolutely play a role in influencing Northern Italian phenoytype, considering it is what they are mostly composed of in autosomal DNA.
 
Jovialis said:
Well, that's sort of my point.

Phenotypes are diverse.
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Again, not really.

I suppose Lombardy has its Salvini types (not even such an extreme look for Southern Europe if you ask me) like it has the Arianna Fontana types. That's about the scope of divesity in Northern Italy: not so impressive I would say.

Of 10 brunettes I could definitely tell who's Anatolian/Iranian and who's Lombard 10 times out of 10. That's why I find puzzling charts where 70/80% of Northern Italian dna appears a mix of Iranian and Anatalion. Then again, I'm here to learn...
 
Well, Let's agree to disagree, because this is really de-railing the thread "WHG percentages maps".

Phenotypes aside, it is a fact (indisputable) that Northern Italians can be modeled in qpAdm with 9% non-steppe-related CHG/Iran_N
 
FWIW, I've seen Puerto Ricans that score about 10% SSA, and it doesn't come out in their phenotype. SSA (and Amerindian) from the typical Iberian genetic profile is far more radically different than excess CHG. Yet there are Puerto Ricans with that admixture that look like typical Southern European/Iberian. Again, CHG already exists within all Europeans, brought with Indo-European Steppe people, who were within an of themselves 40% CHG.


F9dJvS5W0AAGYsY.jpg

I modified this chart, but it was re-posted by Razib Khan, which lends it legitimacy.
 
Jovialis said:
Both Iranian/Turkish people and Northern Italians have diverse phenotypes.

Also who mentioned Turks? They're enriched by different groups from Anatolians.

75%-90% of Northerners have dark hair, the map somewhat misleads the facts by showing a BRIGHT YELLOW for 20-25%, and BLACK for 0-2.5%. (both being extreme minorities) It is a statistical fallacy/misrepresentation, made to evoke a certain perception.

View attachment 15339
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This map, spite it magnifies a bit too much fair hairs (everywhere) is rather progressive for me, so not so exaggerating contrast. You seem forgetting that not to be fair don't mean you are dark haired! in Central Italy "châtain" (middle brown and slightly dark brown) are not very rarer than dark hairs, and in Northern Italy, it's the main colour, before dark hues.
Let's keep in mind that this map was maid long ago. Things and people changed between then and now!
 
Jovialis said:
@MOESAN

You're right about that actually, this is supposed to be my hair color:

WmntGee.png
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Thanks for your 'likes'. Sometimes I would give 'likes' too but since the new configuration of the site I don't know how to do.
 
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