DNA of Viking rulers of Normandy coming in autumn

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Maciamo

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Just saw this in the news: Was Viking ruler Rollo Danish or Norwegian?

Rollo was the founder and first ruler of Normandy, the Count of Rouen and the great-great-great grandfather of William the Conqueror, the first Norman King of England. While Norwegian-Icelandic history holds that Rollo is the same man also known as Ganger Hrólf and hails from Norway, some Danish historians claim that Rollo is from Denmark.

In January, French officials granted a Norwegian application to open the tomb of Rollo’s grandson and great-grandson, Richard I of Normandy (also known as Richard the Fearless) and Richard II, also called Richard the Good.

When researchers opened the tomb, a sarcophagus in the floor of a Fécamp monastery, on Monday they found Richard the Good’s lower jaw with eight teeth. A DNA analysis is likely to be completed by the autumn and will be presented in cooperation with the French authorities.
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This means that we should get the Y-DNA haplogroup of the Viking rulers of Normandy, from Rollo to William the Conqueror. Looking forward to it.
 
What is the most likely candidate? I1, U106, Z284? Anything else?
 
If they want to know where was Richard I from, they must also test his autosomal DNA - that's essential too.

As for Y-DNA, there is a thing called "Non-Paternity Event" (cheating wife, etc.) which could happen to one of Rollo's descendants.

If Richard I was really P312 then it is essential to determine what subclade it was. If this subclade turns out to be Scandinavian-specific then OK, but if it turns out to be Non-Scandinavian then it will most likely mean that between Rollo and Richard there was a Non-Paternity Event and Richard I was in fact not Rollo's biological descendant - consequently it will mean that William the Conqueror was also not Rollo's biological descendant.
 
Tomenable said:
If they want to know where was Richard I from, they must also test his autosomal DNA - that's essential too. As for Y-DNA, there is a thing called "Non-Paternity Event" (cheating wife, etc.) which could happen to one of Rollo's descendants. If Richard I was really P312 then it is essential to determine what subclade it was. If this subclade turns out to be Scandinavian-specific then OK, but if it turns out to be Non-Scandinavian then it will most likely mean that between Rollo and Richard there was a Non-Paternity Event and Richard I was in fact not Rollo's biological descendant - consequently it will mean that William the Conqueror was also not Rollo's biological descendant.
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The NPE event rate is a very tiny percentage. If Richard I is really R-P312, then I would see it confirmed by the documental reconstructed genealogical tree of all the lines tested in that blogger's page. If, and I underline if, it is possible to see clearly when the lines branched (I doubt it, because at that time is nearly impossible to have many documental sources), then we can rule out or not a Y-DNA haplogroup.
 
Tomenable said:
What is the most likely candidate? I1, U106, Z284? Anything else?
Click to expand...

I2a2 is also high in Scandinavia, although it is low in Normandy. However R1a is even lower in Normandy. Both I2a2a and R1a are not especially high in southern England either, so I1 or R1b are statistically more likely. But who knows, it could very well be a rarer Scandinavian lineage like Q1a, G2a, E1b1b or J2. Unlike relatively pure Mesolithic, Neolithic and EBA Steppe cultures, there is no way to logically deduce Rollo's Y-DNA beyond that.
 
I'm not sure what it will be. I have heard he was from Norway, or Denmark, does anyone know which country is correct?
 
the new Ydna predictor for Rollo gives

[TABLE="class: CSSTableGenerator"]
[TR="class: google-visualization-table-tr-head"]
[TH="class: google-visualization-table-th gradient unsorted"] [/TH]
[TH="class: google-visualization-table-th gradient unsorted"]Haplogroup[/TH]
[TH="class: google-visualization-table-th gradient unsorted"]Probability[/TH]
[TH="class: google-visualization-table-th gradient unsorted"]Fitness
[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: google-visualization-table-tr-even google-visualization-table-tr-sel"]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-seq"]1
[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td"]R1b L21>DF13>Z39589>DF41
[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-td-number"]52.17[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-td-number"]99.77[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: google-visualization-table-tr-odd"]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-seq"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td"]R1b DF27>Z196>L176.2 [/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-td-number"]15.88[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-td-number"]95.87
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

with the STR supplied
 
Sile said:
the new Ydna predictor for Rollo gives

[TABLE="class: CSSTableGenerator"]
[TR="class: google-visualization-table-tr-head"]
[TH="class: google-visualization-table-th gradient unsorted"][/TH]
[TH="class: google-visualization-table-th gradient unsorted"]Haplogroup[/TH]
[TH="class: google-visualization-table-th gradient unsorted"]Probability[/TH]
[TH="class: google-visualization-table-th gradient unsorted"]Fitness[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: google-visualization-table-tr-even google-visualization-table-tr-sel"]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-seq"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td"]R1b L21>DF13>Z39589>DF41 [/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-td-number"]52.17[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-td-number"]99.77[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: google-visualization-table-tr-odd"]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-seq"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td"]R1b DF27>Z196>L176.2[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-td-number"]15.88[/TD]
[TD="class: google-visualization-table-td google-visualization-table-td-number"]95.87[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

with the STR supplied
Click to expand...

Both haplogroups are quite unlikely for a 9th century Viking. R1b-L21 was almost certainly brought to Scandinavia from the British Isles by the Vikings, so it is not a native Viking haplogroup. L176.2 is mostly French and Spanish. Both haplogroups could have been native to Normandy before the Viking invasions.

R1b is the most likely haplogroup for Rollo's lineage, but only R1b-U106, R1b-L238 or possibly even R1b-U152 (considering that the Proto-Celts mixed to some extent with the Proto-Germanics in Germany before they moved to Scandinavia in the Bronze Age).

Despite the higher statistical likelihood for R1b, my hunch is that Rollo's line will be I1, and if so then I1-L22.
 
Angela said:
Isn't the NPE rate 1% per generation? We're talking an awful lot of generations since Rollo's time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event#Rates_of_non-paternity_in_single_births Look at the situation with Richard of York. He was G2a. The living descendants of his ancestor Edward I are different varieties of R1b. It's only speculation as to where the NPEs occurred, but obviously some did occur.
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Obviously it occurred but, as I stated before, we have a rich documental source about the kings of England, then why not test other branches and ancient remains?
 
Maciamo said:
Both haplogroups are quite unlikely for a 9th century Viking. R1b-L21 was almost certainly brought to Scandinavia from the British Isles by the Vikings, so it is not a native Viking haplogroup. L176.2 is mostly French and Spanish. Both haplogroups could have been native to Normandy before the Viking invasions.
Click to expand...

I am not as sure as you R1b-L21 could not have been in Western Scandinavia before Vikings raids in the Great isles. Not an affirmation, only a doubt. I think possible some kind proto-Celts put their feet in Scandinavia at bronze Age. Only old DNA can answer us, even if at first sight your answer seems very reasonable.
 
Bump.

Any news?
 
What the hell are they doing, a year ?? maybe they failed
 
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