K12 Dodecad project : highest percentage for each admixture

People one of the biggest mistakes made by dienekes was, to name the components after Regions.

For example the so called "South Asian" component. When People hear this they usually connect it with South Asia When we find out more about the so called "South Asian" component, we recognize that there is no other component that is so much diverse. The so called "South Asian" component is a combination of two components, ASI and ANI. The South Asian among Kurds, Turks, Iranians is almost exclusively ANI.

This is what a Friend wrote me
""" See how close West Asian Component is to ANI

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FFgv5Ekbf5s/TePJ635DfYI/AAAAAAAADyw/fCws28qg-ds/s1600/nj.png
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ndsd2vCS9dw/TePHEceJ4HI/AAAAAAAADyo/IS7sXxU5wJg/s1600/ANI%252B4.png

In deep contrast, ASI is similar to Onge component.
From his blog:
http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/06/ancestral-south-indian-asi-in-context.html
"I have also ran supervised K=3 ADMIXTURE analysis that treated the ASI population as test data and CHB, Onge, Papuan as parental populations; the ASI turned out 100% "Onge", consistent with the idea that ASI is distantly related to Onge, although closer than with the other two populations.

It should be noted, however, that the similarity of ASI to Onge is not unexpected, since:

* Onge was used by Reich et al. (2009) to infer admixture proportions of Indian Cline populations, which were (in turn):
* used by myself to infer allele frequencies of ASI, and then:
* used by myself to create a synthetic population of ASI individuals.

So, the Onge-ness of ASI is contingent upon the accuracy of Reich et al. (2009)"


Dodecad mixed two completely different components (ANI and ASI) into one (South Asian), which is misleading. If you look at his blog he avoided to show ANI and ASI in one plot.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Fy6fGi0y3MY/TebEfxcfepI/AAAAAAAAD0A/B3JVpmHdNAI/s1600/1_2.png
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FFgv5Ekbf5s/TePJ635DfYI/AAAAAAAADyw/fCws28qg-ds/s1600/nj.png
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ndsd2vCS9dw/TePHEceJ4HI/AAAAAAAADyo/IS7sXxU5wJg/s1600/ANI%2B4.png

We can be sure ANI is closer to West Asian as to ASI.
Yes, ANI is proto-Indo-European or maybe even before that, and according to Dienekes it is from West Asia that migrated into Central Asia. It's most probably R1a/R2a.

But when do you think ANI in West Asian population came back into West Asia? With Medes/Scythians, Mitanni or Parthians? Or is it just native to West Asia? I don't understand this.

why Ancestral North Indians came from West Asia, not Eastern Europe :
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/05/beware-of-sample-sizes-why-ancestral.html

http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/06/projecting-pakistan-populations-on-west.html

http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/05/aniasi-analysis-of-hgdp-pakistan-groups.html
 
@Knovas I am not going to much into this but please let me know, how you explain, that a Kurdish friend of mine who had 18 "South European" in Dodecad v1 has now 22% "Mediterranean" on V3 when South European and Mediterranean are exactly the same?
It's very easy to understand Alan. None of the clusters are the same comparing with K=10 for an obvious reason. K=10 was composed of 10 components, while K=12, of course, has 12. That means ALL distances must change, not only for Southern Europe with the Mediterranean, also for Northern Europe (West and East European). And the African continent too, where you can perfectly apreciate that, for example, the East African component is not the same as the K=10 run because Neo African and Palaeo African are added (changing the distances we found before).

The problem some people has, is to think that Mediterranean is the only cluster changing the distances because of the general name, but as I showed above, the same happens with all clusters. For example the East European, I proved that increases much more the European score than the Mediterranean in Northern European populations...so if you want to speculate about a cluster, it's clear that the Mediterranean is not the best example. But the fact is we had 2 clusters for Europe before, and now we have three, being impossible to get the same results with new Fst distances.

Conclusion:
West and East European refer to Northern Europe, while Mediterranean refers to Southern Europe. The scores are increased in BOTH ancestries, and you are free to think wich run was more accurate (K=10 or K=12), but the meaning of the clusters it's perfectly clear while checking the distances. If you check for example the other K=12 (Sardinian and Basque components), you'll see the scores change another time for the same reason (12 components too), but are still different from the K=12 v3 because this time includes isolated regions (Basque country and Sardinia).

Different runs always change the scores, althought they try to measure the same. Checking Eurogenes you can find different scores in clusters wich were named the same way before...just slightly different interpretations of a concrete ancestry.

Basic knowledge; only plain observation is required.
 
How much of the Tunisian DNA is Mediterranean? Because according to new studies Tunisians don't have much European (Vandals) DNA!

"The most common lineage was the North African haplogroup E-M81 (71%), being fixed in two Berber samples (Chenini–Douiret and Jradou), suggesting isolation and genetic drift. Differential levels of paternal gene flow from the Near East were detected in the Tunisian samples (J-M267 lineage over 30%); however, no major sub-Saharan African or European influence was found."

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/08/tunisian-y-chromsomes-and-mtdna.html
You are only looking at y-dna. See their mtDNA.
 
This Mediterranean component is obviously not "European" but just "Mediterranean" as its name implies. Indeed if we look athe Genetic distances Fst provided by Dienekes we can clearly see that "West_Asian" is closer to "West_European" (0.048) than "Mediterranean" is (0.058) is!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pw7x-HD7ON0/TgJS__AvriI/AAAAAAAAAiU/44-iorvZqS0/s1600/fst.png

West_European vs East_European 0.044
West_European vs West_Asian 0.048
West_European vs Mediterranean 0.058
West_European vs Southwest_Asian 0.065
West_European vs Northwest_African 0.073
West_European vs South_Asian 0.083

West_European vs East_African 0.125
West_European vs Southeast_Asian 0.142
West_European vs Northeast_Asian 0.143

West_European vs Neo_African 0.211
West_European vs Palaeo_African 0.255

This "Mediterranean" component is also the closest to "North African" (0.067) just after "SouthWest Asian" (0.066)...

North African vs SouthWest Asian: 0.066
North African vs Mediterranean: 0.067
North African vs West Asian: 0.068
North African vs West European: 0.073
North African vs East European: 0.081

So definitely not "European" but just "Mediterranean"....


In fact, here is a neighbour joining tree of the 12 components created by Dienekes to better illustrate this

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-llezDuKBAwM/TgDzprB0zuI/AAAAAAAAD2c/k89ILpspSac/s1600/nj.png

As we see the Mediterranean clusters FIRST with SouthWest Asian ("Arab") and THEN with West and East European clusters, so definitely not "European" but just "Mediterranean" ...
 
It doesn't mean absolutly nothing since the distances are clear, and West Asian is closer to Southwest Asian than Mediterranean. Here you have again, don't forget the glasses: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pw7x-HD7ON0/TgJS__AvriI/AAAAAAAAAiU/44-iorvZqS0/s1600/fst.png

The top Mediterranean scorer has more Total European at K=10 than the top East European scorer (Southern + Northern European). Following your absurd logic, then, East European must be not European too.

Search for DOD725 and DOD468 at K=10 Spreadsheet, come on: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...jU0d2MUtJSkMzNGc&hl=en&authkey=CP-9p_wC#gid=0

Also check the different variations of the individuals, wich it seems you didn't want to see: http://dodecad.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-06-27T15%3A00%3A00%2B03%3A00&max-results=12

Keep dreaming is not European fella.
 
In fact, here is a neighbour joining tree of the 12 components created by Dienekes to better illustrate this

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-llezDuKBAwM/TgDzprB0zuI/AAAAAAAAD2c/k89ILpspSac/s1600/nj.png

As we see the Mediterranean clusters FIRST with SouthWest Asian ("Arab") and THEN with West and East European clusters, so definitely not "European" but just "Mediterranean" ...
You're absolutely right!

Dodecad clusters Mediterranean closer to SouthWest Asian than West Asian to SouthWest Asian. Just LOOK!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3LQChXZX2a8/TeoAAV6WE3I/AAAAAAAAD0k/02yzfOmfmHs/s1600/non-projected1_2.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zSOnNtMJSSo/TeoBWnC4KPI/AAAAAAAAD00/3V6Qt463uyU/s1600/projected1_2.png
 
West Asian with Southwest Asian is 0.054, while Mediterranean with Southwest Asian is 0.057. That means West Asian is closer, not Mediterranean.

Completely FALSE ;)
 
West Asian with Southwest Asian is 0.054, while Mediterranean with Southwest Asian is 0.057. That means West Asian is closer, not Mediterranean.

Completely FALSE ;)
78619892.jpg


28290704.jpg


http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/06/projecting-pakistan-populations-on-west.html
 

Attachments

  • 78619892.jpg
    78619892.jpg
    16.4 KB · Views: 63
Spanish folks ARE closer to other West European population, because they have very MUCH North European component in them. And not because of their Mediterranean component! Why don't you understand this????
 
You are the one who doesn't understand. CHECK K=10 WHERE CLUSTERS ARE NAMED SOUTHERN EUROPEAN AND NORTHERN EUROPEAN.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...jU0d2MUtJSkMzNGc&hl=en&authkey=CP-9p_wC#gid=0

DOD725 with 54.4% Mediterranean scores 89.7% European, while the Lithuanian scoring almost ¡68%! East European scores 88.9%. CLEARLY LESS than the guy you say it's not scoring European .

It's time to go to bed.

PD: OWNED! XD
 
??? Your logic doesn't make any sense!!!!


I see by DOD725: 52.3 South European and 37.4 North European. Of course he is for 52.3 + 37.4 = 89.7 % European. I think he is even 100 % European, because he is from Europe!!!

But the South European (yes EUROPEAN) component is still closer to Southwest Asian (ASIAN) than West Asian (yes ASIAN) component to Southwest Asian.

WHY? Because West Asian and North European were thousands years ago SAME (maybe proto Indo-European) folks!!! One part lives in (moved to) NORTH Europe and other part lives in West ASIA!

Use your brains man.

Good night...
 
Dienekes' distances say West Asian is closer to Southwest Asian than the Mediterranean is at K=12. Go and ask him, the information is not mine.

And well, at K=10 it's true what you say, Southern European it's a bit closer to Southwest Asian than West Asian: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UOHFTxL-bOA/TMnGIgsXaTI/AAAAAAAAAB8/n0HE-zNRNBw/s1600/dist.png

So you must accept, even, that the Mediterranean means more European than the K=10 Southern European...if you want to be right, it's your obligation to accept such fact considering the distances.
 
No, according to Dienekes Mediter. is closer to Southwest Asia!

29707372.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-llezDuKBAwM/TgDzprB0zuI/AAAAAAAAD2c/k89ILpspSac/s1600/nj.png



I believe Medit. is a native EUROPEAN component, while North European is much less European and has got the same origin as West Asian component, goes back to thousands years ago!


Please, don't be stubborn. It's not a shame to acknowledge that you was not right. It is a shame if you continue to spread the same nonsense. Only fools never change their minds!


Good night. I'm done here!
 
That's just a picture man, with mathematics it's impossible to be wrong. Numbers have spoken clearly, no margin of error.

However, you are free to think what you want.
 
Last edited:
It's clear that Mediterranean refers to South Europe going by the Dodecad runs I examined. What's there to argue about?
 
SECOND diagram is MUCH better. I don't think South Europe has the same roots as Southwest Asian. But they share some haplogroups with each other, like hg. E .

diagra2.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-llezDuKBAwM/TgDzprB0zuI/AAAAAAAAD2c/k89ILpspSac/s1600/nj.png


ANI is from West Asia and maybe is North European also from West Asia!! All (Indo-European) roads lead not to ROME, but to WEST Asia! Maybe is South European NOT really Indo European? Basque DNA confirms that!

Acording to Dienekes Ancestral North Indians (ANI) came from West Asia, not Eastern Europe:

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/05/beware-of-sample-sizes-why-ancestral.html
http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2011/06/projecting-pakistan-populations-on-west.html

diagramp.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FFgv5Ekbf5s/TePJ635DfYI/AAAAAAAADyw/fCws28qg-ds/s1600/nj.png
 
What's there to argue about?
It's possible that South European/Mediterranean and Northeast European have different origin but they are 'intermarried' (mixed) with each other. While it's possible that Northeast European and West Asian are 'brother' components and have same origin.

Here you can find more info about it:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showth...usler-no-immigrants-for-the-dispersion-of-I.E.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showth...ises-again...-at-least-according-to-the-media

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26727-Lack-of-G2a-in-Basque
 
The Mediterranean component it's almost sure the most ancient European. According to Dienekes', if I remember well, the presence of this component between Orcadians and others at substantial level, must be atributed to the megalitic builders.

Iberia has plenty of those ancient monuments. Just in Catalunya you can find too many of them. Its antiquity has not been concreted, there's only speculation around.
 
The Mediterranean component it's almost sure the most ancient European. According to Dienekes', if I remember well, the presence of this component between Orcadians and others at substantial level, must be atributed to the megalitic builders.

Iberia has plenty of those ancient monuments. Just in Catalunya you can find too many of them. Its antiquity has not been concreted, there's only speculation around.

These monuments are all over Iberia, from north to south. Just drive along parts of Andalusia and Southern Portugal and you can see stretch upon stretch of megalithic burial stones and other similar structures. There is even an area of Alentejo (S. Portugal) with a mini Stonehenge of sorts. The same type of stone arrangements are found all along the Atlantic Facade. The connections are quite clear and there is even greater evidence regarding a Bronze Age Atlantic cultural continuum (Cunliffe, 2005, 2006, 2010).
 

This thread has been viewed 132292 times.

Back
Top