blevins13
Regular Member
- Messages
- 1,241
- Reaction score
- 191
- Points
- 63
- Location
- Tirana
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b-Z2103>BY611
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H7i1
But cremation at Glasinac was introduced by the Urnielders. Based on what we know now, it is not likely V13 were among them. Most likely R-L51 and we do have some strong diversity of R-L51 in Bosnia/Serbia. It is more likely there were some local pre-Urnfield V13 among Glasinac people (such as the E-Y37092 clades, among them only BY14150 seems Thracian related).
Urnfielders used cremation but so did the Vatina, Garla-mare and related cultures. Enchelei are very interesting and quite possibly E-v13 related but their cremation traditions were probably of different origin to those at Glasinac. Also Glasinac people generally resisted the Urnfield wave.
Liburnian cremation again was of Western Urnfield origin. R1b likely Venetic speakers.
What you should rather focus is this
View attachment 12731
Look at this map. Illyrians were divided in two groups archeologically. The Norhtern one (brown) was generally Glasinac related. Most likely dominately J-L283. And that is suggested by aDNA, Dalmatian J-L283 find (pre proto-Glasinac), rumored N.Albanian MBA/LBA J-L283 find.
Southern Albanian areas were dominated by the Matt-Painted pottery (yellow). This is where there is some very strong E-V13 diversity of clades having LBA relatives to the North, this is where there were migrations of Brnjica and Mediana types.
And you see this pottery dominates Messapian areas. Per Ratzinger Messapians and Glasinac Illyrians were not same. And Albanian language leans far more towards Messapian direction.
Possibly Southern Albania was populated prior to LBA by the Phrygians (likely R-Z2103, Armenian clades).
My proposal is
yellow - significant E-V13 % (Kuc i Zi etc., plenty of LBA/EIA migrants from the North)
brown - dominance of J-L283 (Glasinac-Mati)
Ofc some presence of the other hg in other areas.. Enchelei that you mention, and I agree with you there, fit ofc in yellow zone.
So actually J-L283 looks more Glasinac, but the Albanian language is more Messapian related and per this it shows more of E-V13 (and ofc likely R-Z2705) connection.
There are several Armenian Dna study that prove that Armenians did not come from Balkans.
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