English as the World Language

[Brooker]

Probably the native speakers of any dominant language would be less inclined to learn other languages. It's an unfortunate side effect. I don't think it has anything to do with being @$$h0!e$.

I guess you could say it the opposite way... If you damn non-native speakers would stop learning English, maybe we'd learn your language.

 

[lexico]

Maybe if native english speakers didn't act as such a##holes sometimes

I didn't know that the @$$ㅐㅇㄴㅌ$ were a subset of native english speakers. Aren't they a totally different breed?
And if the dam is for Amsterdam, I'd add Dutch bashin' ain' cool.... :happy:

 

[Duo]

i guess i shoulda written it a bit differently, what i mean is loud rudy tourists who pretend that everyone should speak english and act like if the people don't speak english there are stupid, "you don't speak englishhhh?, it's like the end of the world or smth" THat kind of attitude annoys local people.

Anyways, didnt mean to call anoyone here in particualar an a@@hole, so don't bad rep me just yet

 

[Lacan]

i guess i shoulda written it a bit differently, what i mean is loud rudy tourists who pretend that everyone should speak engrish and act like if the people don't speak english there are stupid, "you don't speak engrishhhh?, it's like the end of the world or smth" THat kind of attitude annoys local people.

Yeah, that's really annoying, I had a job (well, an arbeit ) at gare de l'Est in paris, and I was selling long range train tickets. Of all customers, the only ones who never tried to talk french (not even "merci" or "bonjour") was the native english speakers. (ok I'm exaggerating a bit, britishs was trying hard ).
la palme d'or des apprentis francophones goes to germans, (aber zu viele ei ist nicht gesund..) and... chineses!

 

[Duo]

Yeah, that's really annoying, I had a job (well, an arbeit ) at gare de l'Est in paris, and I was selling long range train tickets. Of all customers, the only ones who never tried to talk french (not even "merci" or "bonjour") was the native english speakers. (ok I'm exaggerating a bit, britishs was trying hard ).
la palme d'or des apprentis francophones goes to germans, (aber zu viele ei ist nicht gesund..) and... chineses!

hey u can't change my qoute from you dont speak english to you dont speak engrishhhh

and yes, that is exatcly what I mean, I speak english just as good as a native, modesty aside, but i always try to say smth in the native language of the place i go, if know anything at all :wave:

 

[Mycernius]

I agree with you Duo-san . As an Englishman abroad I feel that you should at least be able to say Thank you and hello in that language. I do find it embrassing wheen your in a foriegn country and you hear some brainless peasent going 'DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?' at the top of their voices and then calling them names because they don't. I saw one american tourist in Poland trying to word that phrase in different ways, and finally, when no response statisfied him went out of the shop swearing all sorts of things. I managed to get served very well despite only knowing yes, no and good day.

 

[Duo]

great story, I myself would love to speak english everywhere, seeing as i'm fluent, but I realize that one should also respect the local culture, and like you mentioned the story about the american tourist, that's the typical stuff that irritates me just as it would irritate most people

 

[Maciamo]

lets not forget, once greek was the language to know, then latin, then whatever, then french, now english, the world keeps on changing

Indeed, the trend is moving toward the north-west. If that continues, in a few centuries Irish Gaelic, then Icelandic, then Inuit will become dominant languages... How likely is that to happen ? :relief:

In fact, English is a derivative of French (mixed with Germanic languages), while French is a derivative of Latin (spoken by a Germanic people, the Franks), and Latin is somewhat of an offshot of Greek, through the cultural influence of Greece on the Romans (e.g. look at the Greek religion adopted by the Romans). Educated Romans learnt Greek, educated French people learnt Latin (and Greek), then educated English people learnt French (and Latin and Greek), and now educated people around the world learn English (and French...).

 

[miu]

I've always wondered how English would've turned out without the French influence.... (sort of unrelated to the topic but had to say it anyway :blush: )

 

[Duo]

Indeed, the trend is moving toward the north-west. If that continues, in a few centuries Irish Gaelic, then Icelandic, then Inuit will become dominant languages... How likely is that to happen ? :relief:

It may be likely however, that Spanish or even Chinese could start to grow in influence and may get the upperhand on english, one never knows :?

 

[Lina Inverse]

Incidentally, I find modern French's spelling much more difficult and irregular than English' (especially double consonants, silent letters, grammatical changes, etc.)

The French orthography makes my hair stand on end as well, but it is at least somewhat more regular and predictable than the English spelling.

Anyone teaching English or learning another language should be able to relate to this. Some of them you have to read aloud to understand....

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.

2) The farm was used to produce produce.

3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.

4) We must polish the Polish furniture.

5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.

6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
<snip>

There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple
nor pine in pineapple.
<snip>

Those are some very good examples indeed
True nightmare for anyone that learns English.

About Chinese becoming a possible world language:
There are only that much Mandarin (official Chinese) speakers because it's imposed by the government. There are several other languages spoken in China, like Cantonese, Wu/Shanghainese, Jin etc. which are at least as different from each other as e.g. Spanish and Norwegian, rather more, but their speakers are strongly disencouraged to use them, and schools may only have Mandarin as teaching language.
However, their influence stops at the border, and it's extremely unlikely that Mandarin will spread further because it's extremely inaccessible to others: first, it consists exclusively of the highly complex hanzhi, which alone already take countless years to learn, and second, it posseses tones, which nearly all other languages completely lack, and thus are very difficult to learn as well.
Before not at least the hanzhi are abandoned (not bloody likely with the current government) and the tonal system is at least greatly simplified, it won't see any further spread outside China.

 

[Mycernius]

It may be likely however, that Spanish or even Chinese could start to grow in influence and may get the upperhand on english, one never knows :?

Spanish has a good chance of becoming a second language in the world due to the fact that it has the same habit as english; that is to borrow from other languages. It also has a place in America where a lot of people in the southern states use it as a second language or even their first. What could end up happening is the two languages to merge over time to produce a hybrid language. After all english and spanish are hybrid languages themselves. New language-Spanglish (Isn't there a film called this). After all spanish phrases and words are making there way into english. Also read somewhere that spanish is slowly losing the formal you, like english did several hundred years ago. does anybody use thou anymore?
Could end up speaking like Gaff in Blade Runner

 

[Sensuikan San]

How much of a language should you know .... ?

I agree with you Duo-san . As an Englishman abroad I feel that you should at least be able to say Thank you and hello in that language. I do find it embrassing wheen your in a foriegn country and you hear some brainless peasent going 'DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?' at the top of their voices and then calling them names because they don't. I saw one american tourist in Poland trying to word that phrase in different ways, and finally, when no response statisfied him went out of the shop swearing all sorts of things. I managed to get served very well despite only knowing yes, no and good day.

Have just been "lurking" - and noticed this post from Mycernius, from a few days ago ....

How absolutely true this can be !

I do so strongly feel, that to gain respect in a foreign environment, all that is demanded of you is.... not fluency .... but effort ! And rightly so !

Personally, I've found that one can achieve amazing results in any country with the ability to say or ask (in their language, of course...) :

"Please"

"Thank you"

"Hello"

"Good-bye"

"Excuse me"

"How much ?"

and of course, "Thank you !"

Plus, the ability to count* up to ten, and then in hundreds ...

Plus that immortal and desperate question "... do you speak English .... ?"

Armed thus - it takes only an evening to learn.... you can travel safely anywhere in the world - and never be rude !

P.S. *Counting ? Kore wa ...One exception to the rule! ... in Japanese; I'm slightly befuddled here- and would like to start a new thread some time .... !