Politics EU constitution

I hope that ppl come to their senses and stop for a second and vote on the constitution itself instead of other things, like grudges against the government, or paranoia about an invasion in europe or of being swallowed up by the EU and loosing power and sovreignty and what not.
 
Les Pays-Bas portent l'estocade.

The netherlands voted no. I think this is the end of the ratification process. But I think every country should have their word about what they think of this treaty.
 
France voted no, the Netherlands no....This is certainly not great news, as Denmark will have a referendum in September and the yes-campaign people are now thinking how they should win the campaign....

I am sad the way things have turned out, however, I would still vote yes.

Here are my views:
The EU is responsible for the last 50 years of peace in the member countries (no wars), and I think it is a pity that the "no advocates" are trying to build up a campaign that the treaty should be re-negotiated. The treaty is a result of years work among the member countries.
In my opinion, the "no advocates" have not won over me as I don't think they argue well-enough. The typical "no advocate" says that the EU will get more power and will grow too big losing our sovereignty.
In Denmark a certain political party wants us to say no to EU and have a society we had back in the 1930s: farming, reading the Bible, no immigrants, respect the Danish virtues, at-home-mom, etc.,.....This is a step back, not forth!!!
Some French "no advocates" say the EU is not big enough and the power is still not at its peak.

This means that the EU will become an EU in which the integreation of EU will be slower. It will take 10 years before the EU can become a strong unity and challenge the US as a "second force."
 
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I agree fully, plus wat really is irratating is that the NO side is just putting spin to the issue of the constitution with fear tactics with idiotic arguments such as beware of Turkey of eastern european migrants, makin us seem as like some kind of savage race ready to come and usurp everything good in western europe, just total crap and the sad part is that many here in the west dont know much about eastern europe and are getting scared s**tless by flamboyant right wing poiticians using this treaty as a means to gain more votes in their country and thus sabotating the process of an integrated Europe.
 
well im happy we voted NO, i did too! 61,8 % NO
england will say no, thats almost for sure, if denmark say no that is 4 country's
tjechie is doubting, and sweden want to have a referendum too.. well if they all say no, that will be 6 so bye bye consitution!!!

IM NOT AGAINST the constitution, just they way they say VOTE YES YES YES YES, if you dont vote yes, it will be bad for the country and this and that... and i think it is too early, and i dont trust it 100%, some things should change in the constitution for they dutch people. and yes the east-europe country's is at least in the netherlands a small part to say no! but its more about we are afraid that the bigger country's get more power, and for the netherlands many new laws are not neccasary..

so constitution!!!! i will vote YES, when i trust my goverment, when the consititution change some things, and when the time is RIGHT, and that is for sure NOT NOW

( sorry i dont that much about politics, im just reading more about it, but yeah,, this is my opinion, and i geuss my opinion is imporant in SOME way LOL)
 
But see that's the point....... you don't trust your government or what not, or you doubt them, or they have done you wrong... i dont know...... but voting yes and having a constitution assures that no matter the party that comes in power, your country will have to respect or abide or maintain some standards, economic prosperity and certain policies that will keep things stable. So even though one may have a crappy government, the EU constituion and standars assure that the country remains on track and moves in the right direction. Politicans are sometimes spineless and manipulators, but they can't go and mess around with what a larger entity their country is part of requires them to maintain, an entity that is made of experts in their field and of seasoned bureacrats. Whatever, but if people are discontent about their government or have been done wrong by it, or don't trust or what not, voting YES is a way to keep the governments of Europe in check.......
 
dutch baka said:
and i dont trust it 100%,
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If you don't know much about politics & the constitution, how do you know what's wrong? Anyway, do you really think, matters would get worse with the new constitution? & what do you base this opinion on?

some things should change in the constitution for they dutch people.
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Perhaps you missed the point: The constitution is not for the Netherlands but for Europe in general. As it seems there is still too much nationalism around.

Isn't it strange that those who celebrate the most now are those on the far left & far right? Should make you think...


Edit:
BTW, the NYT has an editorial which (although I don't agree with all of it) has some good points:

" This is the context for the French "no" vote on the E.U. constitution. This is the psychology of stagnation that shaped voter perceptions. It wasn't mostly the constitution itself voters were rejecting. Polls reveal they were articulating a broader malaise. The highest "no" votes came from the most vulnerable, from workers and the industrial north. The "no" campaign united the fearful right, led by Jean-Marie Le Pen, with the fearful left, led by the Communists.

Influenced by anxiety about the future, every faction across the political spectrum found something to feel menaced by. For the Socialist left, it was the threat of economic liberalization. For parts of the right, it was the threat of Turkey. For populists, it was the condescension of the Brussels elite. For others, it was the prospect of a centralized European superstate. Many of these fears were mutually exclusive. The only commonality was fear itself, the desire to hang on to what they have in the face of change and tumult all around.

The core fact is that the European model is foundering under the fact that billions of people are willing to work harder than the Europeans are. Europeans clearly love their way of life, but don't know how to sustain it. "
 
Duo said:
I agree fully, plus wat really is irratating is that the NO side is just putting spin to the issue of the constitution with fear tactics with idiotic arguments such as beware of Turkey of eastern european migrants, makin us seem as like some kind of savage race ready to come and usurp everything good in western europe...
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I have just come back from a 2 weeks trip to Turkey. I was surprised at how developed the country has become. The highways, cars and buses are at least as good as in Western Europe or Japan, and usually even better because newer. I was also surprised to see that the prices had skyrocketed, and a meal in a heap restaurant in Western Turkey now cost more than in Tokyo ! There are also many nice and new houses and apartment blocks everywhere, well tended public parks and gardens, new tramways, etc. I really can't see why the Turks would like to move to Northern Europe after joining the EU. With all the real estate agencies destined to North-Western European on the Western and Southern coast, I'd be more inclined to say that the movement of population is going the other way round.

Population-wise, I was also startled to see so many blue-eyed Turks (maybe 1/4 of them in Western Turkey) and even more blond people than in Italy or Spain. This is because so many of them have European blood, be it Greek, Celtic (from the Gallatians that invaded Anatolia in the 2nd century BC), Gothic (ditto later) or from the European possessions of the Ottoman Empire (about 10% of the present Turkish population). Historically Turkey was culturally, ethnically and linguistically European until the Turkish invasions from the 13th century. But as the Turks as somehow related to the Hungarians, Finns, Estonians and Bulgars, there is no even an ethnic argument against them. Less than 1% of the population is of Arabic descent, much less than in Spain - or France for that matter.

So there is in fact very little reason to refuse Turkey's accession to the EU. Turkey is also safer than many 'developed' European countries. The only reason it can't join now is its Human Rights issues with the Kurds (and Armenians ?), Islam (they really should prohibit the call to prayer at 5am if they want to join the EU :p ), discrimination against women (maybe to a similar extend as Japan), and a few other political issues. Even inflation wouldn't be that much a problem as Turkey won't join the Euro anyway (although most hotels already quote prices in euro only :p ).
 
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Maciamo you have hit the nail on the head. I was there about 2 years ago, and it was the same thing as you are describing, that is why people who tell me such stupid things turkey this and that annoy me because they don't know from first hand experience. It's not a perfect country, but Turkey has European blood and costums and is closely linked with the development of Europe in history, therefore it should belong in the EU.
 
What I've heard and read, Turkey is very.. uhm.. split up. You do have a smaller very modern part, but also a larger rural part where much of the old traditions, etc, lives. And the gap between these two is supposedly huge. But as I said, not experienced it myself.

I also wonder, given that the € is this high, why there isn't more investments made abroad. Take profit from the cheaper imports (and not increase the imports). Or maybe it is, but I just don't seen any of it.

:)
 
Yay!! I was very happy to hear about the decisive no:s.

IMHO, corporations love the centralization of the European political structure, because they know very well how much more difficult this makes it for ordinary people to influence decisions.

I prefer democracy, myself.
 
Our foreign secretary, Jack Straw has now put the UK referendum on hold. It's a political way of saying as far as the UK government are concerned it is dead. Some Backbenchers are concerned about Brussels trying to bring it in via the backdoor piece by piece
 
yeah, i think that is something that may happen or that has a possibility to happen ; the political elites of europe don't really seem to be movin on the issue of a united europe.... so i donna, it will be interestin to see what happens.......
 
A little update of the subject : Expatica : Flemish MPs approve draft EU Constitution

Expatica said:
Flemish MPs approved the constitution with a large majority, with 84 votes in favour and 29 MPs opposed. One MP abstained from voting.

Only the extreme-right Flemish Interest MPs deputies rejected the constitution.
...
The parliamentary vote represented the last hurdle for the federal state of Belgium to formally ratify the charter. It means Belgium is close to becoming the 14th EU country to ratify the EU constitution.
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The EU constitution had to be ratified by seven parliaments in Belgium: the Flemish parliament, Wallonian Parliament, French Community Parliament, the German-speaking community Parliament, the Brussels Parliament as well as the Belgian federal Parliament and Senate.
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