Immigration EU proposes "blue card" for skilled immigrants

[Minty]

What does this have to do with the fact that Japan is a big country ? Nowadays almost everybody uses English for business in international contexts - even when a Chinese meets a Korean. But English is only native to England in Europe (though it has become the native language of most people in Wales, Scotland and Ireland).

Hence therefore Japan is small, because Japanese is only really spoken in Japan.

Anyway, for the sake of the argument, Koreans, Manchus and Taiwanese had to learn Japanese when they were Japanese colonies. Believe it or not, I have met a lot of people who could speak at least some Japanese when I was travelling around Asia (especially in India). In the 1980's and 90's it was very popular for Americans and Australians to learn Japanese for business, when the Japanese economy was still good. Nowadays it's Mandarin.

I know that, my grandparents on my mother's side, they are Taiwanese and they speak perfect Japanese. However, my mother's generation she was born in 1949, the Japanese language was already not allowed to be spoken in school. Unlike English their ex colonies who have continued to study English, and countries like Singapore and cities like Macau and Hong Kong even took more pride when they speak English rather than Mandarin! I can’t say the same thing for ex Japanese colonies!

Migrating to Japan is therefore not as attractive as England, because they don't have the equivalent Australia, New Zealand, Canada, The US. The choice is so limited! That's why they are small!

Nevertheless, Japanese is probably still the most popular Asian language learnt in Western countries (I mean learnt for fun, because people are interested in Japanese culture).

Is that right, I met some young French people learning Chinese, so they went to Taiwan and China and complained that the country is not pretty!

I would say people learn Japanese because it is a wealthy country! And as they need the US to protect them from China and North Korea they must "obey" the US, which makes them well liked by Americans, hence well introduced Japanese to the rest of the other Europeans. And for the middle Easterners and Africans they themselves are dirt poor except for a few exceptions, of course they like countries that are rich!

Wrong reasoning. European powers (chiefly Britain, France, and the Netherlands) had colonised most of Asia, but the Japanese made them lose their colonies. The British Empire started collapsing the day Singapore surrendered to the Japanese. French Indo-China never recovered from the Japanese conquest.

False only Britain colonised most of Asia, that's why people here are so ignorant of Asian people! But this is also because most Europeans don't care much about Asia, that's why they don't know much about it, and me the victim of harassment for their assumptions based on ignorance! If you like I can give you some of the most pathetic examples of what people here have said to me!

Anyway, what does this have to do with the fact that Japan is a big country and a bigger economic power than any single European country?

This is the reason why immigrants choose Western countries rather than Japan! I would rather live in any other first world European ruled countries rather than Japan, even though I look like them a lot. Learning Japanese for me has just as much advantage to me as learning French. Japan is alone Europeans have each other!

So what? What's your point? There was no EU in the 1950's, 60's and 70's when immigration was at its historical highest in Europe.

The EU wasn't constructed yet, but the Europeans were making plans to avoid future wars. They were already mending their wounds. By comparison the relationship between the Europeans was much better than Japan's relationship with the Far East.

I am not talking about East Europeans immigrants to East Germany (of which there were very few). Millions of Turkish immigrants came to work to West Germany during the Cold War years. Nowadays Germany is the country that accepted the most political refugees and asylum seekers in the developed world. To give you an idea, there are now more Third World immigrants/refugees going to Germany than to the USA! I think this has to do with the sense of culpability that Germans feel towards WWII and the Holocaust. They are trying to be nice to make up for it.

I have been to Germany and Austria I met many Eastern European immigrants over there, I could tell because they had a different accent when they spoke to me in English. I know about the Turkish immigrants we all know the Turks are desperately trying to join the EU, and they are very poor, so why is it so surprising that there are heaps of Turks there?

Can you name a country where people like poor, uneducated, badly-behaved immigrants?

Well, in Australia when our government catches illegal immigrants and the government kicks them out people think the government is right, but here in France people would protest and say things like oh those poor people...we should let them stay! So the next time you see poor uneducated badly behaved immigrants doing harm to the European society think of what I said!

At the beginning I had to go to school with these poor pathethnic immigrants I was badly harassed by them because I come from a rich country. I know exactly what that's like!!!

With that logic, there shouldn't be any (non-European) immigrants to Germany, the Netherlands or Scandinavia.

Why wouldn't there be any immigrants, for the poor Asians or Africans any of the first world western countries is heaven to them! Moreover all those Countries speak English well, most people in the world can at least speak some English communication is very important in survival!

Indonesia was a Dutch colony, but the Dutch never bothered to teach their language in their colonies. It's surprising that a (half) Malaysian like you doesn't know that the Dutch used Bahasa Melayu as a lingua franca to communicate with the locals in Indonesia. They were the only Europeans who used an indigenous tongue instead of their own. The result is that a language native to Malaysia is now the official language of Indonesia, where it wasn't spoken at all a few centuries ago.

That's not what the Indonesians told me, they said that the Dutch tortured them! That's why they don't speak Dutch! Instead Indonesians speak English, I had a lot of classmates from there, and they speak English with an Indonesian accent. The old generation pretends they can't speak Dutch but in fact they can!

So why did so many Indonesians feel like migrating to the Netherlands, a cold and distant country which language they didn't know?

For all the poor Asian countries moving to a first world country is heaven, and since Japan was more xenophobic in their immigration law they look for other alternatives. Moreover most Asian people think white people are all the same, that's why all the Japanese, Koreans, Thais etc with their white boyfriends/husbands all think we are all the same, because it is about white Asian couples!!!

By the way, ethnic Indonesians only make up 2.3% of the Dutch population , while other immigrants amount to 15% of the population. There are actually more Turks and almost as many Moroccans as Indonesians in the Netherlands, and neither country has any historical or linguistic tie with the Netherlands.

Well, for the Africans to live in Europe is heaven, they don't care which of the first world country they get to go, any first world countries would do, and if they already had families and friends there, that makes moving there even more attractive! And at least for them to survive in Europe is still easier, they look much more like European People than Japanese people, especially the white ones, and for the dark ones they can pass as Southern Italian, Southern Spanish, Southern Portuguese or some Greek people even!

I know, I grew up near Luxembourg. But again, what's your point ? People go to Luxembourg for the money (it's the richest country in the world in GDP per capita). But why weren't there more people going to Japan in the 80's and early 90's when salaries were the highest in the world ?

That is because it is much easier to mingle in a society where people look closer to you, for Europeans and Africans and Middle Easterners learning Japanese is hard, and yet it remains as the most popular Asian language because people like Japanese products or that Japan has a special relationship with the US and makes them closer to Europe. I once had a Réunion lady who loudly told others that in Africa Japanese are considered white where as Chinese are considered Black, she thought I didn't understand but I did. I find this very insulting, and it further shows that all of this is about money and politics. Chinese people are not "obedient" to the west hence my ancestors were attacked during the opium war, and after when the Japanese attacked China, China went all the way down, hence our poor reputation today, not to mention I am not even from China!!! Face it Japan is a friend to the West and China an enemy!!! Of course there are those who are on our side but very little!!! However that is changing, I heard it on radio that the younger generation want to learn Chinese in High school but there are not enough teachers to go around! We will just need to wait for those generation to grow up, you are obviously the older generation who prefer the Japanese, ofcourse you don't agree on my point of view!

Then at least we agree on this.

You cannot expect people from a complete different background to agree on everything you have to say, that's why there is this debate, what's the point of talking to people who think like you the whole time?

 

[Maciamo]

Hence therefore Japan is small, because Japanese is only really spoken in Japan.

So your conception of size is solely based on how widely a language is spoken. Do you understand that language and country aren't the same thing right ? Just how big is India for you ? Geographically it is 3x smaller than China or the USA, and there are over 800 languages spoken in that area. Almost all the languages of India are spoken exclusively in India, and some in neighbouring countries historically part of the same entity.

I know that, my grandparents on my mother's side, they are Taiwanese and they speak perfect Japanese. However, my mother's generation she was born in 1949, the Japanese language was already not allowed to be spoken in school. Unlike English their ex colonies who have continued to study English, and countries like Singapore and cities like Macau and Hong Kong even took more pride when they speak English rather than Mandarin! I can’t say the same thing for ex Japanese colonies!

Migrating to Japan is therefore not as attractive as England, because they don't have the equivalent Australia, New Zealand, Canada, The US. The choice is so limited! That's why they are small!

You mean isolated, not small. Is there no nuance between the two in your mother tongue ?

Is that right, I met some young French people learning Chinese, so they went to Taiwan and China and complained that the country is not pretty!

"I met some people that blablah..." is not a valid argument. Statistics don't lie. Check the number of Japanese language course enrolment in all Western countries (compulsory schools + universities + private language schools) compared to Chinese.

I would say people learn Japanese because it is a wealthy country! And as they need the US to protect them from China and North Korea they must "obey" the US, which makes them well liked by Americans, hence well introduced Japanese to the rest of the other Europeans. And for the middle Easterners and Africans they themselves are dirt poor except for a few exceptions, of course they like countries that are rich!

No, the main reason Westerners learn Japanese is not because Japan is wealthy but because they like the culture (either traditional, like samurai, geisha, Zen Buddhism..., or more usually the modern pop culture, like manga, anime, video games, electronics...).

I don't see what Japan's relation with the US has any connection with the popularity of Japanese language or the attraction of Japan as a country for economic immigrants or political refugees (which, in case you forgot, is the main topic of discussion here).

False only Britain colonised most of Asia, that's why people here are so ignorant of Asian people!

Who are "people here" ? French people ? France colonised Lebanon, Syria, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, and had enclaves in India and China too (Pondicherry, Mahe, Karikal, Yanam, Chandernagar, Guangzhouwan + concessions in Shanghai, Guangdong, Tianjin, and Hankou). That's less than Britain, but it's still considerable. The Netherlands took over all the Portuguese colonies (Ceylon, Malaysia) and trading outposts in Indonesia and Japan, and truly colonised all Indonesia. Just Timor and a few ports in India and China that stayed Portuguese (Daman, Diu, Dadra, Nagar Haveli, Goa, Macau).

All four countries maintained relationships with Asian colonies for several centuries.

But this is also because most Europeans don't care much about Asia, that's why they don't know much about it, and me the victim of harassment for their assumptions based on ignorance! If you like I can give you some of the most pathetic examples of what people here have said to me!

Knowledge of the world usually goes in hand with social class. Try socialising with more educated or open-minded people. However the French are very self-centered and chauvinistic about their country and culture, like the Japanese and the Americans, and therefore tend to ignore the rest of the world. Try smaller countries or more regionalised ones like Germany or Spain.

This is the reason why immigrants choose Western countries rather than Japan! I would rather live in any other first world European ruled countries rather than Japan, even though I look like them a lot. Learning Japanese for me has just as much advantage to me as learning French. Japan is alone Europeans have each other!

Did you read what I wrote properly ? I can't see any connection between the quoted text and your answer. :disappointed:

So you are saying that you prefer to move to the EU (not France) rather than Japan, because the job market is bigger ? Is that right ? However you will need to learn a different language in almost every country. You mentioned earlier that you didn't care about learning Japanese because it was a "small" (meaning "isolated") language. So why didn't you stay in Australia or go to another English-speaking country ? Europe is full of "small" languages. Besides unemployment is lower in Japan than in the EU, and salaries in Tokyo are usually higher too.

I have been to Germany and Austria I met many Eastern European immigrants over there, I could tell because they had a different accent when they spoke to me in English.

Oh, so you are just referring to Eastern European who come to work a few years in Germany than go back home. These aren't immigrants. Immigrants are people who take their family, leave everything behind, and settle forever in a country and have children there. What you are mentioning are Eastern European residents. Foreign residents and immigrants go into separate categories for statistics. From what I gather, your family emigrated to Australia, but you are just a temporary resident in France, right ? I have been a foreign resident in many countries, but never an immigrant.

I know about the Turkish immigrants we all know the Turks are desperately trying to join the EU, and they are very poor, so why is it so surprising that there are heaps of Turks there?

Stereotypes ! Turkey is richer than most of the countries in the Balkans (including Romania and Bulgaria). The issue is that Eastern Turkey (where immigrants to Germany came from) is much much poorer than Western Turkey. The gap isn't as big as in China, but we are also talking about two completely different societies. Western Turkey has a prosperous Western-style economy, while Eastern Turkey is rural and closer to countries like Iraq or Syria in almost every regard. Have a look at this :

According to Forbes magazine, Istanbul had a total of 35 billionaires as of March 2008 (up from 25 in 2007), ranking 4th in the world behind Moscow (74 billionaires), New York City (71 billionaires) and London (36 billionaires), while ranking above Hong Kong (30 billionaires), Los Angeles (24 billionaires), Mumbai (20 billionaires), San Francisco (19 billionaires), Dallas (15 billionaires) and Tokyo (15 billionaires).

Well, in Australia when our government catches illegal immigrants and the government kicks them out people think the government is right, but here in France people would protest and say things like oh those poor people...we should let them stay! So the next time you see poor uneducated badly behaved immigrants doing harm to the European society think of what I said!

I know, the lenient attitude of many European countries towards illegal immigration is unacceptable and outrageous. But you have to concede that's the scale isn't the same as in Australia. Australia has the advantage of being far away from everywhere, and people can't just cross over on rafts.

That's not what the Indonesians told me, they said that the Dutch tortured them!

Have you met all of them ? Where did you meet them ? In Europe ? Why would they migrate to the Netherlands if they were treated so badly ? When I went to Indonesia, I met some elderly people who accosted me asking me if I was Dutch, and reminded fondly the colonial period.

That's why they don't speak Dutch! Instead Indonesians speak English, I had a lot of classmates from there, and they speak English with an Indonesian accent. The old generation pretends they can't speak Dutch but in fact they can!

Indonesians now learn Bahasa Malaysia (renamed Bahasa Indonesia) at school everywhere. But that was the language the Dutch introduced, not a native language to Indonesia.

Well, for the Africans to live in Europe is heaven, they don't care which of the first world country they get to go, any first world countries would do, and if they already had families and friends there, that makes moving there even more attractive! And at least for them to survive in Europe is still easier, they look much more like European People than Japanese people, especially the white ones, and for the dark ones they can pass as Southern Italian, Southern Spanish, Southern Portuguese or some Greek people even!

North Africans can pass for Southern Europeans ? For you maybe, but never ever for a European.

I once had a Réunion lady who loudly told others that in Africa Japanese are considered white where as Chinese are considered Black

Just another example of human stupidity. Technically it could be said that pure Black Africans aren't the same subspecies of Homo Sapiens as the rest of humanity because they lack the small Neanderthal admixture that Eurasians, Oceanians and Native American have.

Face it Japan is a friend to the West and China an enemy!!! Of course there are those who are on our side but very little!!!

Is that the way you see it ? I think it's just political. Most Chinese were brainwashed by the communist education system to hate everything capitalist and Western, only to be told later to adopt capitalism and copy the West. Many are understandably confused. Then, where do you place Russia ? Among Western countries ? It is historically European and is capitalist too nowadays.

 

[^ lynx ^]

In Spain, moroccans (and colombians) are overrepresented in our jails as well.

Immigrants make 30% of our prisioners.

I prefer you use the words unskilled immigrants, although in this context I am certain you mean immigrants from Morocco and Colombia.

There are unskilled immigrants from many other nationalities in Spain, but moroccans and colombians are the only ones overrepresented in our jails as far as I know. So my sentence is perfectly constructed.

Greetings.

 

[Wilhelm]

In comparison, Portugal has only 1.3% of foreigners and Greece has 0.8%. Spain has a considerable number of foreign residents too, but if you remove people from neighbouring countries, other EU countries (retirees from Britain and Germany), and citizens from former colonies (who can almost all claim some Spanish ancestry), the actual percentage of immigrants is only about 4%. So it is obvious that massive immigration is a problem mostly in northern Europe.

Mostly in northern Europe ? No way. Actually Spain has the highest percentage of immigrants of all the EU (and this without counting immigrants who got spanish nationality which is very easy to get btw or without counting 2nd generations)

 

[Minty]

So your conception of size is solely based on how widely a language is spoken. Do you understand that language and country aren't the same thing right ? Just how big is India for you ? Geographically it is 3x smaller than China or the USA, and there are over 800 languages spoken in that area. Almost all the languages of India are spoken exclusively in India, and some in neighbouring countries historically part of the same entity.

No, of course not, but we are talking about why Japan being a wealthy country with powerful economy only has 1 percent immigrants. I thought it was 3 apparently Japanese are more xenophobic than I thought! When I said small I meant their likelihood to be the immigrant’s heaven. India may have many languages spoken in their country but it is poor and it is constantly fighting with Pakistan.

You mean isolated, not small. Is there no nuance between the two in your mother tongue ?

We have another word for isolated, but we always have referred Japan as a small country who wasn’t satisfied with what they had, that’s why they invaded China, Korea and the rest of Asia.

Imagine this if Japan had won Taiwan, Manchuria and Korea and the rest of Asia would speak Japanese. Things would have been very different. My grandparents tried to go to Hong Kong to study, because they were no longer allowed to go back to study in Japan after the war. However because of the Cold war, the Chinese hijacked planes from Taiwan to HK, and since Taiwan was locked except for High ranked business man or political officials nobody else was allowed to leave the island. So their dream went up in smoke! The only route left was to go to the states. This is why LA has the highest Taiwanese immigrants. Now there have never been a lot of Taiwanese immigrants thanks to China who made them a country who is only recognised by something like 24 or 25 poor petit countries. So they have decided to stay together. They all know each other!

Meanwhile lots of Chinese descendants from South East Asia who came from poor families but good at studying went to Taiwan to study because it was the cheapest option. Many of them marry Taiwanese women and brought them to their countries where English educated are the best paid, and received the highest respect. You see, Japan lost its position in the world as immigrant’s heaven when they lost the war!

"I met some people that blablah..." is not a valid argument. Statistics don't lie. Check the number of Japanese language course enrolment in all Western countries (compulsory schools + universities + private language schools) compared to Chinese.

You misunderstood me. I totally agree that there are much more Europeans learning Japanese than Chinese. In fact Chinese teachers in demand is a very recent thing, I heard it on the radio only a month ago! And they are the very young French around 15 to 16 years of age who want to learn Chinese!

I know a 17 year old bloke from UK, he said that for the first time French was not listed in the top 10 of the most popular foreign languages learnt by British. In his school 60 percent of the student chose Chinese to study as a foreign language!

No, the main reason Westerners learn Japanese is not because Japan is wealthy but because they like the culture (either traditional, like samurai, geisha, Zen Buddhism..., or more usually the modern pop culture, like manga, anime, video games, electronics...).

Yes it is when westerners go to Japan, Japan has all these wealth to offer to their guest, and what do China and Taiwan have to offer? Taiwan looks like a polluted factory with only the 101 area looks first world enough and China with its poor human right records??? Is there any first world country out there with poor human right records? If you want to have high standard you need money to keep your standards high! Please don’t tell me people’s attraction to Japan is not about money, maybe not consciously but unconsciously. All those Japanese cultural artifacts you have mentioned do not cost money to keep them looking attractive for their clients? And what has happened to our cultural artifacts? They were burnt by the Cultural Revolution!

I don't see what Japan's relation with the US has any connection with the popularity of Japanese language or the attraction of Japan as a country for economic immigrants political refugees (which, in case you forgot, is the main topic of discussion here).

It has everything to do with why Japan is popular to European descent people; because of Japan’s special relations to the US, Japanese women have been marrying white American men since the end of the war, a marriage brings two cultures together! Japan became so wealthy for being "obedient" to the Americans; they are not like the other first world countries. They are the only first world country out there where the people are not of Caucasian descent.

The Africans were colonised by European people, for I think It was 200 or so years they were slaves living in the homes of white people, and then they got released but still discriminated, they lived below the whites until Martin Luther King came along. However even after that they have continued to struggle with racism issues. Nevertheless they have been in the lives of European people for so long, they are used to it.

The Middle Eastern people the white ones look like white and they are Caucasian people, the dark ones are in-between whites and blacks. Didn’t the southern part of Italy get raped by Africans? How about Spain? They got invaded by Arabs no?

Who are "people here" ? French people ? France colonised Lebanon, Syria, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, and had enclaves in India and China too (Pondicherry, Mahe, Karikal, Yanam, Chandernagar, Guangzhouwan + concessions in Shanghai, Guangdong, Tianjin, and Hankou). That's less than Britain, but it's still considerable. The Netherlands took over all the Portuguese colonies (Ceylon, Malaysia) and trading outposts in Indonesia and Japan, and truly colonised all Indonesia. Just Timor and a few ports in India and China that stayed Portuguese (Daman, Diu, Dadra, Nagar Haveli, Goa, Macau).

All four countries maintained relationships with Asian colonies for several centuries.

I have met Dutch people, they were exactly liked the French who thought all Chinese people came from China. The British definitely has links with us, because of the commonwealth, but the Dutch asides from Indonesia, no one we know from the Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore have had any links with them, and we know a lot of people so their colonisation much had been very short. The Dutch, Portuguese people I met knew nothing about our side of the world, and generalized us all under the word “Asian”. If the colonization had been so long why we have only maintained our relationship with the British? However I know for a fact Macau was returned to China in 1999 by the Portuguese.

Knowledge of the world usually goes in hand with social class. Try socialising with more educated or open-minded people. However the French are very self-centered and chauvinistic about their country and culture, like the Japanese and the Americans, and therefore tend to ignore the rest of the world. Try smaller countries or more regionalised ones like Germany or Spain.

These are the people in my university. All of them have either already did a degree in their countries, and some of them are university professors! The university I am attending is a good one! The real reason is because of segregation!

Did you read what I wrote properly ? I can't see any connection between the quoted text and your answer.

What did you write again? I had alcohol last night when I answered your thread!

So you are saying that you prefer to move to the EU (not France) rather than Japan, because the job market is bigger ? Is that right ? However you will need to learn a different language in almost every country. You mentioned earlier that you didn't care about learning Japanese because it was a "small" (meaning "isolated") language. So why didn't you stay in Australia or go to another English-speaking country ? Europe is full of "small" languages. Besides unemployment is lower in Japan than in the EU, and salaries in Tokyo are usually higher too.

English is the most essential language to get a job in the EU, because everybody speaks at least some English. I can also speak French and Chinese languages. French is vital to get a job here! It also depends on the job; in some jobs language is not as important because other technical skills count too.

I think I really haven’t been here for ages due to my studies, now it is the holiday so I have time to chat with people on the internet, you forgot my husband is European? I have "Carte de Sejour de 10 ans" who never expires. I am not sure I am still considered as a temporary resident, unless something were to happen to my marriage and that I would go home to Australia. I think I am considered an immigrant. What do you think?

Oh, so you are just referring to Eastern European who come to work a few years in Germany than go back home. These aren't immigrants. Immigrants are people who take their family, leave everything behind, and settle forever in a country and have children there. What you are mentioning are Eastern European residents. Foreign residents and immigrants go into separate categories for statistics. From what I gather, your family emigrated to Australia, but you are just a temporary resident in France, right ? I have been a foreign resident in many countries, but never an immigrant.

Well, a lot of the Eastern European people seem to be very interested to be my friend, and from what I know they want to stay here forever??!!

Stereotypes ! Turkey is richer than most of the countries in the Balkans (including Romania and Bulgaria). The issue is that Eastern Turkey (where immigrants to Germany came from) is much much poorer than Western Turkey. The gap isn't as big as in China, but we are also talking about two completely different societies. Western Turkey has a prosperous Western-style economy, while Eastern Turkey is rural and closer to countries like Iraq or Syria in almost every regard. Have a look at this :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
According to Forbes magazine, Istanbul had a total of 35 billionaires as of March 2008 (up from 25 in 2007), ranking 4th in the world behind Moscow (74 billionaires), New York City (71 billionaires) and London (36 billionaires), while ranking above Hong Kong (30 billionaires), Los Angeles (24 billionaires), Mumbai (20 billionaires), San Francisco (19 billionaires), Dallas (15 billionaires) and Tokyo (15 billionaires).

Ok so they are not as poor as I used to think, it is partly my professor’s fault. I am studying international relations. Last semester we were talking about Turkey, he said that he didn’t think Turkey would be accepted into the EU because of human rights issues; Islamic issues and that they were poor!

However they still want to join the EU eagerly, hence them moving to any first world EU countries does not surprise me!

Have you met all of them ? Where did you meet them ? In Europe ? Why would they migrate to the Netherlands if they were treated so badly ? When I went to Indonesia, I met some elderly people who accosted me asking me if I was Dutch, and reminded fondly the colonial period

Not all of them but really a lot. Just to remind you because of my half Malaysian descent Indonesian love to approach me. Maybe they say one thing to the white and another thing to people they considered their own! I don’t feel like I am one of them, I was never educated in their language or culture; my education had always been a western one! I was brought up by my Taiwanese mother. But ok whatever, my half Sino Malaysian descent. I never got a genetic test, some Chinese immigrants who started immigrating to South East Asia in the 19th century have intermarried with local people but others stayed with their own. However if you get two parents with Chinese genes and a bit of Polynesian genes, you couldn’t inherit only Chinese genes, then…

Indonesians now learn Bahasa Malaysia (renamed Bahasa Indonesia) at school everywhere. But that was the language the Dutch introduced, not a native language to Indonesia.

And what language did they speak before? The Malay people are not the original inhabitants of Malaysia, the aboriginal people there have their own languages other than Bahasa Malaysia. The Malay people were original Javanese and they brought their language and their kingdom to Malaysia around 50 years ago. The Sino Malaysian had been in the country for around 500 years! Traders and settlers from India and China arrived as early as the 1st century of the common era, establishing trading ports and towns in the area in the 2nd and 3rd centuries CE. Both had a strong influence on the local culture!

North Africans can pass for Southern Europeans ? For you maybe, but never ever for a European.

Look, I know Chinese people who were born in the states, but because they are not white they were always been questioned of their ethnic origins, but you don’t see people questioning blacks for their ethnic origins, not to mention Africa is a continent! Do white people ask black people oh you are black, are you Nigerian black or Ethiopian black? But when they see an Asian American they would say something like oh you are Asian what is your descent, are you Chinese Korean?

Seriously some of the North Africans here have light hairs and eyes and look like white! Compare to us who is a completely different race who obviously look very different to European people they should have less of a problem to integrate!

Just another example of human stupidity. Technically it could be said that pure Black Africans aren't the same subspecies of Homo Sapiens as the rest of humanity because they lack the small Neanderthal admixture that Eurasians, Oceanians and Native American have.

Are you saying Chinese people came from Native Americans?

Is that the way you see it ? I think it's just political. Most Chinese were brainwashed by the communist education system to hate everything capitalist and Western, only to be told later to adopt capitalism and copy the West. Many are understandably confused. Then, where do you place Russia ? Among Western countries ? It is historically European and is capitalist too nowadays.

I don’t know what to say about Russians, they seem to be very fond of me for some reason. I think like the rest of the other Europeans they don’t really know how to differentiate people like me and the real Chinese from China. Your definition of Chinese is obviously only those from China, all that you have said here were about them. Not all Chinese hate capitalism. The Chinese from Malaysia did not hate capitalism or the west the people of HK didn’t neither. They had a hard time to leave the British in 1997 as I recalled!

In fact I think except for China who turned into communists, the rest of the other Chinese people were debatable, there were those on their side and there were those on the other side. However even those who were on the Chinese side because they believed they were blood brothers or something did not hate the west. The rich Chinese from Malaysia and Singapore had been studying in UK during the 1950s maybe earlier. Until today it is still very popular! During this era China is still locked up in communism and hated the west and capitalism. Once again please stop generalizing Chinese people. We are not all the same!

 

[Maciamo]

Mostly in northern Europe ? No way. Actually Spain has the highest percentage of immigrants of all the EU (and this without counting immigrants who got spanish nationality which is very easy to get btw or without counting 2nd generations)

Your stats, please.

I think it would be fair to consider only non-ethnic Europeans as "immigrants" as the EU is a single entity for immigration nowadays, and Europeans rarely qualify as "immigrants" in the pejorative sense of the term. One way to estimate the actual number of non-European immigrants is to check the stats for ethnic groups. For example, in the UK about 91% of the population is ethnically European, while in the Netherlands it is about 83%.

It is illegal to make racial census in France, but the percentage of Africans alone (including descendants of slaves from Caribbean colonies) has been estimated at approximately 8% of the total population. The total number of non-ethnic Europeans in France, adding to Middle-Eastern and Asian immigrants, easily exceeds 15% of the population (including some 600,000 Armenians, 440,000 Turks, 330,000 Indians, 250,000 Vietnamese and 240,000 Chinese, 100,000 Thais, 70,000 Cambodians, 60,000 Pakistani, 50,000 Laos).

I couldn't find such stats for Spain on Wikipedia, even in the Spanish version. It only says "Native-born Spanish citizens of all races and ethnic groups make up 88% of the total population".

 

[Wilhelm]

Your stats, please.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2010/11/03/espana/1288794047.html

I couldn't find such stats for Spain on Wikipedia, even in the Spanish version. It only says "Native-born Spanish citizens of all races and ethnic groups make up 88% of the total population".

Here it is : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Spain

"According to the Spanish government, there were 4.5 million foreign residents in Spain in 2007; independent estimates put the figure at 4.8 million or 15.1% of total population (Red Cross, World Disasters Report 2006). According to residence permit data for 2007, around 500,000 were Moroccan, another half a million were Ecuadorian and Romanians, 260,000 were Colombian. Other important foreign communities are British (8.09%), French (8.03%), Argentine (6.10%), German (5.58%) and Bolivian (2.63%). In 2005, a regularization programme increased the legal immigrant population by 700,000 people."

But because it is so easy to get spanish nationality, I think non-ethnic make about 25% of the population. Official immigration though it's 13-15%

 

[^ lynx ^]

One of Europe's biggest problem is "bad" immigrants, i.e. unskilled, poorly educated immigrants from third world countries, especially those whose culture or religion prevents them from integrating efficiently into European society.

With this blue-card thing Spain would have certainly been far from having nearly 2 million of latin american immigrants. But the need for cheap workers comes first for the idiots who rule us I guess.

Greetings.

 

[Maciamo]

With this blue-card thing Spain would have certainly been far from having nearly 2 million of latin american immigrants. But the need for cheap workers comes first for the idiots who rule us I guess.
Greetings.

Are Latin American immigrants causing problems in Spain ? In Belgium they are fairly well adapted (but they are a relatively small community, mostly living in Brussels).

 

[^ lynx ^]

Are Latin American immigrants causing problems in Spain ?

I wasn't trying to imply that. The thing is great part of the latin american immigrants have a very very low academic profile, almost illiterate and IMO this is not the kind of immigration Spain needs right now.

As I said in a earlier post moroccans and colombians are the only communities with a very significant percentage of troublemakers.

Greetings.

 

[Reinaert]

There are more European countries with a complex problem.

It's all about modern politics.

Right wing political parties tell lies.
Employers in Europe were getting people from outside Europe to get cheap labor.
The people getting in, were getting the price of labor in a downward spiral.

At the same time, right wing politicians put the blame for the immigration on left wing parties, which is complete nonsense.
But a lot of European media sell this shit.

European left wing parties want a fair share for every human being.
European or from abroad.
Nowadays people from some countries work in the EU, while having very low costs in their own homeland. Housing and such at a very low price.
Western Europeans have to go for a high income to finance their expensive homes.

That's how capitalism sucks.

In the USA it's nearly the same problem, although the USA doesn't even produce goods for the international markets anymore.
Yeah.. Weapons.. And the world would be better without them..

Simply stop financing China.

 

[jurrian]

This thread looks funny in this moment. Many youngs europeans are planning to leave Europe and go to China and Brazil to work.

 

[Kardu]

This thread looks funny in this moment. Many youngs europeans are planning to leave Europe and go to China and Brazil to work.

I might be wrong, but somehow I feel anti-European sentiment in your posts