Politics Far Left-Wing Americans want to dismantle statues

I think the genocide of the Indians was a terrible thing, just like any other genocide, enslavement, or destruction of human life. However, I don't think people should dismantle statues or images of other conquers throughout the world. Like Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, Saladin, etc.
 
If you want to acknowledge a European for the feat of discovering the continental US, acknowledge Ponce de Leon. He landed in Florida in 1513 and explored up and down Florida.
 
Throughout history, all civilizations have committed crimes. We must learn from that so that the crimes do not happen again in the future ... although I am skeptical, since long after Auschwitz there were genocides like the one in Rwanda, and in the former Yugoslavia.
We should try to solve injustices ... but without perpetuating hatred. As a small example of those hatreds from the past, I tell you something that happened to me.
A while ago I entered a community of descendants of Uruguayan indigenous people on Facebook. In my opening message, I wrote that I was very proud to have confirmed my suspicions of having native ancestors through a DNA test, because that gave me strong roots in this continent, but I also wrote that I was proud of my European ancestors....

The group administrator replied: What ???? ... Are you proud of those who massacred our people and stole their land?
And I replied: Hey, wait a minute! I am not talking about the conquerors, of which I do not even know if I am a descendant and probably never will!
I refer to the millions of immigrants who came to work, like my Italian grandfather, who in his life knew nothing but hard work and left his bones on this land!
The answer was silence...
 
Throughout history, all civilizations have committed crimes. We must learn from that so that the crimes do not happen again in the future ... although I am skeptical, since long after Auschwitz there were genocides like the one in Rwanda, and in the former Yugoslavia.
We should try to solve injustices ... but without perpetuating hatred. As a small example of those hatreds from the past, I tell you something that happened to me.
A while ago I entered a community of descendants of Uruguayan indigenous people on Facebook. In my opening message, I wrote that I was very proud to have confirmed my suspicions of having native ancestors through a DNA test, because that gave me strong roots in this continent, but I also wrote that I was proud of my European ancestors....
The group administrator replied: What ???? ... Are you proud of those who massacred our people and stole their land?
And I replied: Hey, wait a minute! I am not talking about the conquerors, of which I do not even know if I am a descendant and probably never will!
I refer to the millions of immigrants who came to work, like my Italian grandfather, who in his life knew nothing but hard work and left his bones on this land!
The answer was silence...

Thank you so much for your post, Italo. I am both moved and disheartened by it.

No good can come from this kind of attitude, but this is the reality we face.
 
@Angela


Let's hope that these disturbances, as well as the Covid-19, are in the future only bad memories of a 2020 whose script seems written by Stephen King ...
 
I do not despise my European ancestors. On the contrary, I admire them very much. The Colony Era were rough times, and there was a struggle for survival on both sides. This struggle was based on survival instinct and not racism. The conquerors saw the Indigenous as savage pagans and murderers and the Indigenous saw Europeans as destructive demons. From the point of view of the conqueror, no new immigrant would have arrived to Americas if the Portuguese and, shortly thereafter, the Spanish had not opened the way for the Americas. The Portuguese were the ones who developed the Caravels and the most sophisticated navigation instruments that allowed Europeans to conquer the world with their military and merchant fleets. This bias that the new immigrants are better than the old ones caused serious problems for Italian and German immigrants in the south and southeast of Brazil, mainly in WW2, to the point that the Talian was abandoned by many native speakers out of fear.
 
I do not despise my European ancestors. On the contrary, I admire them very much. The Colony Era were rough times, and there was a struggle for survival on both sides. This struggle was based on survival instinct and not racism. The conquerors saw the Indigenous as savage pagans and murderers and the Indigenous saw Europeans as destructive demons. From the point of view of the conqueror, no new immigrant would have arrived to Americas if the Portuguese and, shortly thereafter, the Spanish had not opened the way for the Americas. The Portuguese were the ones who developed the Caravels and the most sophisticated navigation instruments that allowed Europeans to conquer the world with their military and merchant fleets. This bias that the new immigrants are better than the old ones caused serious problems for Italian and German immigrants in the south and southeast of Brazil, mainly in WW2, to the point that the Talian was abandoned by many native speakers out of fear.


I sometimes have discussions with people who say: look at the bestialities that the Spanish did on this continent! (And the funny thing is that many times people with a Spanish surname and even a Spanish appearance say it ...).
And I answer them: .. if those things had never happened ... you and I would not exist ...
 
Throughout history, all civilizations have committed crimes. We must learn from that so that the crimes do not happen again in the future ... although I am skeptical, since long after Auschwitz there were genocides like the one in Rwanda, and in the former Yugoslavia.
We should try to solve injustices ... but without perpetuating hatred. As a small example of those hatreds from the past, I tell you something that happened to me.
A while ago I entered a community of descendants of Uruguayan indigenous people on Facebook. In my opening message, I wrote that I was very proud to have confirmed my suspicions of having native ancestors through a DNA test, because that gave me strong roots in this continent, but I also wrote that I was proud of my European ancestors....

The group administrator replied: What ???? ... Are you proud of those who massacred our people and stole their land?
And I replied: Hey, wait a minute! I am not talking about the conquerors, of which I do not even know if I am a descendant and probably never will!
I refer to the millions of immigrants who came to work, like my Italian grandfather, who in his life knew nothing but hard work and left his bones on this land!
The answer was silence...

It is crazy, that people should be made to feel guilty for who they are. You should be proud of all your roots, and I'm happy to call you a fellow Italian.
 
Don't brush it off as eh, they did some good. I do not ignore the fact that some of the advances that are credited to the Greeks would not have been possible were it not for slaves freeing elites from manual labor so they can think their high thoughts. Slavery is abhorrent under any circumstances and should never be excused. So is thievery and plunder but at least you don't lose your freedom and you're not worked to death.
 
These are some of the historical characters that I really admire. They are a far cry from what can be called 'politically correct people'. But their achievements are absolutely admirable. I give them all my honors. Doesn’t matter for me their haters. I love them.

Dom Manuel I - Portuguese monarch who financed the great navigations.

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Vasco da Gama - Portuguese navigator - First navigator to bypass the Cape of Good Hope and reach the Indies

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Fernando and Isabel, the first kings of Spain. They financed the exploitation of Christopher Columbus.

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Pedro Álvares Cabral - Portuguese navigator - Venerated as the discoverer of Brazil.

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Pero Vaz de Caminha - Author of the birth certificate of Brazil, royal escrivener of the fleet of Pedro Álvares Cabral who communicated to King Dom Manoel I the good news.

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Fernão de Magalhães - Portuguese navigator - Noted for having organized and started the first circumnavigation trip to the globe from 1519 to 1522

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Pedro I of Brazil (first ruler of independent Brazil - 1822 to 1831) and later (and at the same time too - this history is very confused) Pedro IV, King of Portugal and Algarves.

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Just a little something, something @Duarte in regards to Ferdinard:

In 1478, Ferdinand and Isabella had instituted the Inquisition, an effort by Spanish clergy rid to the country of heretics. Pogroms, individual acts of violence against Jews, and anti-Semitic laws had been features of Catholic Spain for over a century before the Alhambra Order, causing deaths and conversions that greatly reduced Spain’s Jewish population. Having already forced much of Spain’s Jewish population to convert, the Church now set about rooting out those who suspected of practicing Judaism in secret, oftentimes by extremely violent methods. Tomas de Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor, is said to have petitioned the monarchs to expel all Jews for years before they finally issued the order on March 31, 1492."

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/spain-announces-it-will-expel-all-jews

A lot of the expelled Spanish Jews found their way to Thessaloniki where they thrived until the Germans in the 1940s finished what the Spaniards started. A lot of Greeks traitors unfortunately turned the Jews in and received their shops or houses as a reward.
 
All I am trying to get across here is know your history. All the history, not just what they teach you in high school or in Sunday School. For example we were not taught in HS that quite a few Byzantine emperors (including Constantine the Great who is an Orthodox saint) slaughtered Greeks that still believed in the ancient gods, not to mention all the other heretics. As they say history is written by the victors and the Christians won. They only talk about how the Roman emperors persecuted the early Christians but they conveniently forgot about the Byzantine emperors persecuting non-Christians.
 
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I read today in a newspaper of São Paulo of national circulation an article by a revisionist in favor of removing the busts and statues of the Bandeirantes exposed in the urban landscape of São Paulo under the claim that their exhibition in public places is out of context. According to the writer, these monuments should be removed for museums where the real face of these 16th and 17th century explorers would be described: “The only goal of the bandeirantes was to promote indigenous genicide and its enslavement” and the exposure of these busts in public squares and public places would be a exaltation of genicide and racism sponsored by the elite of São Paulo. He reaches the summit of proposing the change of name of streets, squares, parks and avenues and gives himself the gall to suggest the new names. The author's name and surname make clear their non-Iberian origin. It is amazing how some opportunists of occasion take advantage of the moment of crisis to make inappropriate analogies with racism. Sometimes I wonder who gave him authorization or power of attorney to do the mea-culpa on behalf of the Portuguese-descendants. Portuguese descendants have been doing mea-culpa for a long time and do not need advice or suggestions on how to deal with the guilt complex itself. Let the monuments where they are and as they are. Bad or not, it’s part of our culture.
 
Just a little something, something @Duarte in regards to Ferdinard:

In 1478, Ferdinand and Isabella had instituted the Inquisition, an effort by Spanish clergy rid to the country of heretics. Pogroms, individual acts of violence against Jews, and anti-Semitic laws had been features of Catholic Spain for over a century before the Alhambra Order, causing deaths and conversions that greatly reduced Spain’s Jewish population. Having already forced much of Spain’s Jewish population to convert, the Church now set about rooting out those who suspected of practicing Judaism in secret, oftentimes by extremely violent methods. Tomas de Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor, is said to have petitioned the monarchs to expel all Jews for years before they finally issued the order on March 31, 1492."

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/spain-announces-it-will-expel-all-jews

A lot of the expelled Spanish Jews found their way to Thessaloniki where they thrived until the Germans in the 1940s finished what the Spaniards started. A lot of Greeks traitors unfortunately turned the Jews in and received their shops or houses as a reward.

Sorry @bigsnake. I didn't see your post and I didn't see your reference to me.

Yes. The stain of the expulsion of the Moors, Jews and the inquisition hangs over the Catholic Kings.

At the age of 9, in a play taught in the schoolyard where I course the fourth grade of elementary school, I represented King Fernando (this is also my father's name) and a classmate represented the Queen Isabel. Teaching was part of the history classes dealing with the discovery of America.

The Catholic Kings are the founders of the Spanish nation. Allow me to clarify that for Brazilians the figure of Pedro Álvares Cabral is much more important than the figures of Cristóvão Colombo and Américo Vespúcio. Of course, we recognize the historical importance of both. The Portuguese were already aware of the existence of Brazil and the arrival here was not an accident. It was a matter of taking possession and preventing the Spaniards from taking over.

The Spanish and Portuguese inquisition was terrible. In the city of Ouro Preto, Minas Gerais, Brazil, many new Christians (Jews allegedly converted to Christianity) were burned on charges of secret Judaism practice. I am not deny all these atrocities.

I remember that after Belo Horizonte, Ouro Preto is the city I most love in this world.

Cheers ;)
 
I'm tripping out on how you thought Anderson Cooper was "reasonably balanced"...

Not to fault Cooper unfairly though, I can't think of a single national reporter (U.S. based) who comes through as unbiased anymore.

Sad state of affairs.

EDIT: Thought of one-- Sharyl Attkisson. She's fairly middle of the road and doesn't seem like she's constantly pushing an agenda.
 
Double digit unemployment, 100,000+ Americans have perished, but an endless parade of bread and circus microaggressions by nobodies paraded in front of the media keeps the public fighting amongst themselves over relatively trivial matters

Katie Herzog

This woman was fired because the Washington Post decided an offensive Halloween costume (for which she was already humiliated) is national news. Way to speak truth to power.





A working class Mexican man gets fired from his job because a Twitter user took a photo of him cracking his knuckles and claimed he was making a white power gesture. The Twitter user deleted their account and said they didn't mean to get him fired, fwiw. https://nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/


These people are barking mad...the American version of the Mao's Cultural Revolution. Today they're going after members of the universities and elite media. I'm telling you, tomorrow it will be everyone.

So should we start denouncing our neighbors? When will the purges begin? Read a history of the show trials in Russia in the 30s; all those "true believers" couldn't comprehend how they could be sitting in the dock, being "tried" by their fellow Communists and countrymen for bogus crap.

You vote for people affiliated with American far left ideology, who at all tolerate them, at your peril.
 
Just a little something, something @Duarte in regards to Ferdinard:

In 1478, Ferdinand and Isabella had instituted the Inquisition, an effort by Spanish clergy rid to the country of heretics. Pogroms, individual acts of violence against Jews, and anti-Semitic laws had been features of Catholic Spain for over a century before the Alhambra Order, causing deaths and conversions that greatly reduced Spain’s Jewish population. Having already forced much of Spain’s Jewish population to convert, the Church now set about rooting out those who suspected of practicing Judaism in secret, oftentimes by extremely violent methods. Tomas de Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor, is said to have petitioned the monarchs to expel all Jews for years before they finally issued the order on March 31, 1492."

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/spain-announces-it-will-expel-all-jews

A lot of the expelled Spanish Jews found their way to Thessaloniki where they thrived until the Germans in the 1940s finished what the Spaniards started. A lot of Greeks traitors unfortunately turned the Jews in and received their shops or houses as a reward.

Sorry the last that is wrong.
Most of Spanish Jews left around 1860-1885, following their Great Hahami
mainly after the liberty and union of Thessaly.
and not only from Thessaloniki but also from Monasterion (today Bitola)
only the Serajevo Spanish Jews remained and expand to other Balkan areas.
Most of the modern Jews today are from Constantinoupolis, Italy, and Central Europe and mainly Eskenazy,
you can check the diaries of Allianza.
the reason was the revolt of 1821 and the role they played,

yet there are some Navarran families still left

the city center of Thessaloniki at 1855 had
48 Synagoges (most were Navarran Separatim)
24 Islamic temples (including Ntonmie and Bectashi)
24 Orthodox Churches
3 Catholic churches and 2 Catholic monasteries (1 Italian style and 1 French style)
Protestans presence is mentioned by 1851, as Μεταρυθμιστες, but not a considerable population

After the St Stefan treaty and especially at Makedonian struggle, Balkan wars, WW1 the city chanced a lot.
to end with population exchange of 1922-3 and WW2.

besides except Thessaloniki Beroia was also inhabited.


there is a nice literature book about them, at 1864
and the ancient city statues that Miller took.

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that was the today Benizelou square

Incantadas_gravure.jpg


magemenes.jpg
 
Excellent post Yetos... I did not know that. Also didn't realize the surprising cultural balance at that time.


This large scale destruction of statues is only the tip of the iceberg. Much more concerning is the monitoring of speech patterns, even to the granular level of pronouns. Insisting on the use of "zim" and "zer" for those who feel they are neither male nor female. This in no way fosters diversity. This is a shameless power grab.

Today's riots are not organic. How did pallet after pallet of brick get delivered to each hotspot the day before things went "live"? And this didn't happen in one city or one state-- suspicious pallets of bricks appeared everywhere. The planners didn't even bother to disguise their efforts by matching the brick color or shape to the surrounding architecture.

That being said, I'm not worried about the ability of the United States to handle this situation. Our Second Amendment was carved out by the framers for events like these. I'm not a gun-nut by any stretch, in fact I destroyed the firearm I purchased during the Great Recession (at one point I thought that we were facing society-wide food shortages because the economy was that bad) and I realized I didn't want to shoot someone looking for rice and beans for their family. This is different however.

The silent majority of Americans are now keenly observing developments, quietly studying recent trends... and organizing their defensive strategies. In other words, they are locked and loaded. Ready for whatever may come their way.

Even I have now altered my Second Amendment status. I pray I do not have to enforce my right to peacefully exist on this planet. But if this nonsense enters the threshhold of my home... it will be met with life altering force. And hastily so.

And as I've said before, I want justice for George Floyd. That man was killed needlessly and his murderer should be put behind bars for many years. No police officer should be able to act that way, and the we are going to have to make adjustments to make sure any abuse is ended quickly. But what we are seeing now is divorced from the original goal of justice. Tempers are being purposely inflamed, animosities are being exaggerated, violence is being fomented... all by a compliant corporate media.

Why?
 
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