CC1
Banned
Just another sign of how screwed up the French government really is I guess! IMO
Immigration France in Flames
- Thread starter Duo
- Start date
CC1
Banned
Maciamo said:Wel, it's not nearly as bad as in the US.
One man killed
5,873 cars torched
1,500 people arrested
17 people sentenced
120 police and firefighters injured
Can you say that again?
CC1 said:
OK, Iraq war, Vietnam War, unfair arrest and abuses on suspected terrorists and prisoners of wars, more murders per capita than any other developed country, rigged elections (Florida incident), etc, etc. ad nauseam.
The current riots are the worst incidents against public orders since 1968. Only 1 person died so far. A normal day in LA or NY has more murders.
CC1
Banned
Maciamo said:
ahhh..and the fear of stepping in and preventing this type of unrest? Where does that fall into play?
CC1 said:ahhh..and the fear of stepping in and preventing this type of unrest? Where does that fall into play?
What do you suggest ? Shooting in the teenage rioters ? That's something the US would do. Oh, didn't they do that in New Orleans last month ? Who cares, after all the New Orleans police was also involved in the looting, and they shot only black people. Can you blame the French police for not following suit ?
CC1
Banned
ever hear of tear gas? Non lethal weapons? As much reading as you do you sure seem stupid at times!
ArmandV
Japan 5, Europe 0
Maciamo said:
Dream on! France is having this problem because they are helpless and have weak leadership! Thoughout history, they've always been appeasers. Just ask Adolf Hitler.
You know why they haven't sent in the military? They are afraid they might surrender and run! (That was a joke, but it is pretty much close to being accurate.)
Duo
Southern Sun
In a regular state the military is not sent in for civil disobedience issues immediatly. There are rules and protocol. France is not a militaristic state to resort to that. They have the the police, the gandarmerie... military police and so forth.
Ma Cherie
Your Goddess is here
*Sigh* I saw this coming, whenever there's a bad incident that occurrs in some other part in the world, people just have to make a comparison to US (the crime rate, etc.) First of all, we're talking about Paris, nevermind what happens here in the US. If if makes a person feel better that they have to make a comparison about what's goes in another country, then that's fine I mean really, if it really makes you feel better.
Second of all, I said this before and I'll say it again, there's obviously something going on that's much more deep, and people have to make an effort as try to figure what the problem is and try to solve it. You can't change what you don't acknowlegde.
Again, we're talking about Paris. Thank You.
Second of all, I said this before and I'll say it again, there's obviously something going on that's much more deep, and people have to make an effort as try to figure what the problem is and try to solve it. You can't change what you don't acknowlegde.
Again, we're talking about Paris. Thank You.
CC1
Banned
Maciamo said:
Tear gas is not intended to kill...but it will disperse a crowd...especially children.
I'll tell you why nothing has been done. France is on a world stage right now...they hate that. In this respect they are like the Japanese, they do not want to be criticized for their action, but oddly enough they are going to be criticized for their lack of action!
ArmandV
Japan 5, Europe 0
Ma Cherie said:
I agree with you, there is something more to this than meets the eye. The U.S. media (as usual) has it all wrong. While some immigrants are not happy with their situation, there are outside forces manipulating this.
Clawn
The Wise Idiot
- Messages
- 78
- Reaction score
- 7
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- I have no idea.
I saw that one town in France has put a curfew in effect and has given the police the ability to search private property without a warrent in the town. No one except for the police is allowed out of their homes from 10 pm until 6 am. I personally believe that this could go either way. The curfew may help, but then again, it may anger the public even further into committing acts that are more violent than setting cars on fire(even though that is pretty extreme). They have also transported more police personell into the area to help with the operation. This increase in power, I believe, will help quiet down some of the rioting.
CC1 said:
The French police has used tear gas, haven't they ?
I'll tell you why nothing has been done. France is on a world stage right now...they hate that. In this respect they are like the Japanese, they do not want to be criticized for their action, but oddly enough they are going to be criticized for their lack of action!
Let me reiterate this : what do you suggest ? There is no need for the army, as they are not train to deal with civilians. In France, army means war and shooting people. They do that well in Africa (Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast...). For domestic issues, they have something that few other countries have : the gendarmes (national military-style police, with military training and ranks) in addition to the municipal police.
But I agree that they are not doing enough. They should deport all the trouble-makers that do not have the French nationality. In this case, I suppose that most are in fact French, as they are young and born in France. You also can't deport minors without their parents, I think. One of the biggest reason they didn't act more toughly (like the US in New Orleans) is that most of the rioters are under 16. It's a bit delicate. They certainly don't want to been seen as children murderers.
Hundreds of people were arrested, and curfews imposed. I think this night will be much more peaceful around France.
NB : Ma Cherie, it is not only in Paris. The riots have spread to about ten other major French cities last weekend.
ArmandV
Japan 5, Europe 0
Tear gas is usually fatal if someone is hit by a tear gas projectile or it starts a fire (remember the SLA back in 1974?) where the culprit(s) are barricaded.
CC1
Banned
Maciamo said:
I suggest that they waited too long to act and now is the time for more forceful measures! You do not let things like this build. As much as everyone criticizes the US for the way things are done, I would think that they would learn from the same actions. Not to worry though...this will be studied for years as what not to do.
Maciamo said:
The army is trained well enough to be able to handle teenagers! No one said that guns were needed...people are needed! As for the Gendarmes...why didn't they use them? I'll tell you why...they have been so critical of everyone else's actions in other parts of the world that no one now wants to make a decision and be the one on the hot seat when judgements are handed down!
Maciamo said:
Deportation will only make things worse. Do you hide a problem when it comes up? No...you try to correct it. First stop the fighting, then go into mediation. Work out a solution to the problem...don't deport everyone and hope it doesn't happen again. I'm not saying you don't punish the wrong doers...definitely they should get theirs, but you would be better served to keep them there, punish them, help to correct the situation, and hold the correct people accountable.
Maciamo said:
There you go again...no one said to kill anyone!
Maciamo said:
This was a correct step, but much too late! They allowed way too much damage to be done.
I will say this in everyones defense: It is hard to be a leader in any capacity in this day and age. The media gets information so fast (sometimes faster than the leaders) and the decisions must be made in an instant. People are becoming fearful of making decisions for fear of ruining their careers. GWBush is not a good example, as he is disliked by many and no matter if he makes the right decision or not, he will be criticized. But now, municipal officials all over the US are being held to higher standards. Fire Chiefs, Chief of Police, City managers in the US are responsable for holding press conferences that are broadcast nationwide and sometimes worldwide. Many times this will be the 1st time they have ever spoken to the press....that is a huge amount of stress for anyone, but I think that it is a good thing. It causes people to look ahead at what could happen and to better prepare themselves. Remember all of the critical statements about Katrina and how it was handled and how FEMA was not prepared? I'm quite sure that France (exp Paris) officials were not prepared for this...based upon their response (lack of).
CC1 said:
This is the first time such immigrant riots happen in France. So forcedly they didn't expect it, were not prepared, and didn't know that it would last so long. There had been so car burning before, but just a few isolated cases. I think most people expected thatit all stopped by itself after a few nights. Who could forsee that it would spread to other towns and last for 2 weeks ?
My point is that the gendarmes are as well trained as the army (same school, I believe), but specialised in dealing with domestic issues. They are a kind of National Guards if you wish. So the army did act.
The French Prime Minister started mediation with the leaders over a week ago. The main Muslim authorities have issued a fatwa (religious order) to stop the riots, but it didn't help, as these teenagers have no respect even for their own community authorities.
They haven't.
This thread has been viewed 5414 times.