G2a Athletic performance/Body types

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G2ian

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Location
Georgia
Ethnic group
Georgian
Y-DNA haplogroup
G2a
mtDNA haplogroup
I1a1c
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I think athletic perfomances have to do more with mtDNA, and length of muscular fibers.
 
G2ian said:
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Not sure what you posted because you redacted it but they are definitely disproportionately represented in fighting sports.

Khabib Nurmagomedov is from the town with the highest concentration of G2a on earth. There have been tons of fighters from that region spanning tons of fighting styles. In fact, the rules of Judo had to be changed once Caucasus fighters started entering the sport because they were dominating by using double leg takedowns from freestyle wrestling (let's assume Caucasus folk style wrestling here for sake of argument). Even after changing the rules, Caucasus people still disproportionately dominate the sport per capita. Take Mansur Isaev for instance.
 
Well, I'm G2a-Z726 and I'm no fighter. I'm the tall skinny guy who uses humor to try to defuse the situation.

And . . . since your Y-DNA only represents a very small fraction of your biological inheritance I can't see how this proposition can be true. On the other hand, MMA fighters from the Caucasus being the best? Sure, it's an isolated community that shares a lot, genetically, why not this predisposition?
 
[email protected] said:
Well, I'm G2a-Z726 and I'm no fighter. I'm the tall skinny guy who uses humor to try to defuse the situation.

And . . . since your Y-DNA only represents a very small fraction of your biological inheritance I can't see how this proposition can be true. On the other hand, MMA fighters from the Caucasus being the best? Sure, it's an isolated community that shares a lot, genetically, why not this predisposition?
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Because you carry minimal amounts of the ancestral population being, by your own admission, English/German as opposed to originating from the Caucasus where we see the highest genetic diversity of G2a types. What does this mean? It means that the autosomal component that was found in the original G2a carrying populations is highest in the Caucasus and very low elsewhere.

The narrative on this forum is that Y-chromosomes are just relegated to fertility without any scientific backing indicating G2a has "low fertility".

Now does this mean the areas of the Caucasus with the highest concentration of G2a are necessarily "fighters"? Not in an of itself but they are most certainly disproportionately represented in fighting sports and are disproportionately represented in foreign wars.

Does you personally as 1 individually only carrying a quasi-verifiable 2% of the ancestral population and not being a fighter mean anything to science despite such a disproportionate amount of men coming from the area of the world with the highest concentration of G2a and specifically regions like Dagestan in which certain parts are the only regions on Earth where G2a is the majority? No.

Again, could it be cultural? Ya definitely but it could also be genetic.

Also this:


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014...ore-sex-switch

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13151
 
Regio X said:
Could you provide the source?
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https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_G2a_Y-DNA.shtml: "G-M406 reaches its maximum frequency (18%) among the Chamalal people in Southwestern Dagestan"

Chamalal are from Tsumadinsky District, Dagestan. Land of the Avars.
Khabib is from Sildi.

Pic attached shows a 10km distance to the administrative center of the "Land of the Avars" from Khabib's birthplace.

https://imgur.com/a/T3YSJaH

Yes it's 18% but the region has the highest diversity of G2a and that's just one clade. The likelihood of Khabib not being G2a would be astounding. Furthermore, there are an incredible amount of fighters from that same microscopic region. 18% for any G2a clade besides some pockets of Indo-European G-L497 is extremely high.

The highest concentration of G2a in the world is in the Ingush 87km away. You get the point.

https://imgur.com/a/WOBFDA2

But hold until I can find an article that said his specific village (no reference to him written long before he was even known) had a 96% G2a result in the males. Give me a few days to find it. I'm traveling. Remind me if I don't. Thank you.
 
PaterKeklos said:
Because you carry minimal amounts of the ancestral population being, by your own admission, English/German as opposed to originating from the Caucasus where we see the highest genetic diversity of G2a types. What does this mean? It means that the autosomal component that was found in the original G2a carrying populations is highest in the Caucasus and very low elsewhere.
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Pater, I think you're agreeing with me. I do not dispute that Caucasians may share physical traits and may be disproportionally MMA type fighters, but that is because they share a basic Caucasian genetic type, that is an autosomal type. Y-DNA is just one small part of your background. I may have many German and English forebears, but both you and I only have one strand of Y-DNA.
 
[email protected] said:
Pater, I think you're agreeing with me. I do not dispute that Caucasians may share physical traits and may be disproportionally MMA type fighters, but that is because they share a basic Caucasian genetic type, that is an autosomal type. Y-DNA is just one small part of your background. I may have many German and English forebears, but both you and I only have one strand of Y-DNA.
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Right but did you take a look at the article? It says, what I have always believed: that the Y-chromosome is the "control gene" in males and controls the manifestation of autosomal characteristics and thus is preserved from father to son unchanged. What first led me to that belief was trying to rationalize how and why on earth the Y-chromosome would remain intact if it were just a fertility issue and we see no demonstrable differences between paternal haplogroups and fertility. Meaning, R1b should be extremely fertile and G2a should be extremely infertile based on the current narrative. What I and saying and what is backed up by the article and paper is that the Y-chromosome controls all the others. It creates "dynasties" so to speak. Certain dynasties would advantageously reproduce not like rats but because of shared traits in the males.

“The Y chromosome doesn’t just say you’re a male; it doesn’t just say you’re a male and you’re fertile. It says that you’re a male, you’re fertile, and you’re going to survive,”

Now I am not saying that this means that G2a = fighters. However, it has merit given we are starting to realize "hey the Y-chromosome does not just determine you are male and gives us something fun to study as a hobby in the 21st century with the advent of genetic testing and furthermore it effects characteristics". Those advantageous characteristics could be fighting but they could be shrewdness or psychopathy or resistance to altitude. We don't know yet but we do know the fertility aspect is not the whole picture.
 
PaterKeklos said:
Right but did you take a look at the article? It says, what I have always believed: that the Y-chromosome is the "control gene" in males and controls the manifestation of autosomal characteristics and thus is preserved from father to son unchanged. What first led me to that belief was trying to rationalize how and why on earth the Y-chromosome would remain intact if it were just a fertility issue and we see no demonstrable differences between paternal haplogroups and fertility. Meaning, R1b should be extremely fertile and G2a should be extremely infertile based on the current narrative. What I and saying and what is backed up by the article and paper is that the Y-chromosome controls all the others. It creates "dynasties" so to speak. Certain dynasties would advantageously reproduce not like rats but because of shared traits in the males.

“The Y chromosome doesn’t just say you’re a male; it doesn’t just say you’re a male and you’re fertile. It says that you’re a male, you’re fertile, and you’re going to survive,”

Now I am not saying that this means that G2a = fighters. However, it has merit given we are starting to realize "hey the Y-chromosome does not just determine you are male and gives us something fun to study as a hobby in the 21st century with the advent of genetic testing and furthermore it effects characteristics". Those advantageous characteristics could be fighting but they could be shrewdness or psychopathy or resistance to altitude. We don't know yet but we do know the fertility aspect is not the whole picture.
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I think you have a degree of relevance in what you say.
Cheers!
 
@Shissem
Yeah, I suppose he agrees with you after all, indeed.

@Pater
You seem a bit confused also regarding the articles you shared. Fellow, you're jumping to conclusions using binary reasoning and projecting the role of the entire Y chromosome into generic haplogroups.

Btw, I'd be very interested in the (pre-Indo-European) G-L497 in Dagestan. Make sure to provide the source also to this, when you're back from your trip.
Thanks in advance.
 
Regio X said:
@Shissem
Yeah, I suppose he agrees with you after all, indeed.

@Pater
You seem a bit confused also regarding the articles you shared. Fellow, you're jumping to conclusions using binary reasoning and projecting the role of the entire Y chromosome into generic haplogroups.

Btw, I'd be very interested in the (pre-Indo-European) G-L497 in Dagestan. Make sure to provide the source also to this, when you're back from your trip.
Thanks in advance.
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There should be virtually zero G-L497 in Dagestan only more ancient clades as the mutation occurred first further west in Europe right before the PIE invasions and spread with the PIE's and Dagestan being one of the few regions of "Europe" to have resisted PIE invasion in terms of majority paternal haplogroup manifestations today.
 
Pater, okay. I was afraid you were going down the trail that "we Caucasians are better than anyone because we're G2a." I'm glad to see that I was wrong.

I don't know what to make of the Nature article (I'm just not knowledgeable enough to have an intelligent opinion) and I haven't paid to read the full study. I'll have to wait for the smart guys on this site to weigh in.

I have wondered about explainers, including on this site, that claim that our DNA contains many chromosomes that don't do anything, are just "junk." It's seems safer (wiser) to say that they don't do anything 'as far as we know today.' The same goes for saying Y-DNA is just a sex determiner.
 
Regio X said:
@Shissem
Yeah, I suppose he agrees with you after all, indeed.
@Pater
You seem a bit confused also regarding the articles you shared. Fellow, you're jumping to conclusions using binary reasoning and projecting the role of the entire Y chromosome into generic haplogroups.
Btw, I'd be very interested in the (pre-Indo-European) G-L497 in Dagestan. Make sure to provide the source also to this, when you're back from your trip.
Thanks in advance.
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Ops! It seems the part of G-L497 in Dagestan was edited. I should have quoted it.
Well, well...

@Shissem
Don't bother!
 
[email protected] said:
Pater, okay. I was afraid you were going down the trail that "we Caucasians are better than anyone because we're G2a." I'm glad to see that I was wrong.

I don't know what to make of the Nature article (I'm just not knowledgeable enough to have an intelligent opinion) and I haven't paid to read the full study. I'll have to wait for the smart guys on this site to weigh in.

I have wondered about explainers, including on this site, that claim that our DNA contains many chromosomes that don't do anything, are just "junk." It's seems safer (wiser) to say that they don't do anything 'as far as we know today.' The same goes for saying Y-DNA is just a sex determiner.
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I am not from the Caucasus. As far as I know, in my case, it literally is just the 2%. I am much closer to your self reported autosomal. In fact almost identical. So there's no political motive from me if that's what you mean. I spent my career in geopolitics though. So if you disregard the Y-chromosome, I've got no attachment to the Caucasus. With that said, I've spent a number of years in the Balkans where the "incursion" of Caucasus fighters during the wars in the 90's and later in the early 2000's made a huge difference and started to tip the scales in ways that won't make news headlines. I also am a hobby MMA competition fighter and am aware of the astounding number of Dagestani and Chechen fighters including the current best MMA fighter, Khabib Nurmagodemov and the Judoka, Mansur Isaev.

Take a look at this list of notable Avars:

https://imgur.com/a/XpPq89R

The notable Avars are practically all fighters of some sort.

Ya we don't know right now, I agree. I just think it's safe to say, fertility isn't the whole picture. The paid article just goes into more details. Their reasons for why are interesting and might explain some other odd traits in other very isolated and/or genetically bottlenecked populations.
 
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