G2a men share some common looks?

Do you think that these G2a men share some common looks?

  • They have many in common.

    Votes: 9 32.1%
  • They have some common.

    Votes: 10 35.7%
  • They have not.

    Votes: 9 32.1%

  • Total voters
    28
In fact, G-Z36217 is now a confirmed branch. At this moment it has several equivalents though (almost 30), and I'm not sure you'd be positive for all. We'll know soon its TMRCA in YFull (either in the next update or in december). The current two branches have six terminal SNPs each according to ISOGG. We don't know how exactly the combBED region in YFull is defined, so I don't know which of them will be considered for age calculation. I'm guessing something like 800-950 ybp, but who knows! We'll see.
(Further data may change TMRCAs.)

Thanks for that update!
 
2611557.png

Massively redacted due to too much personal identifying information. Long story short, I'm going to have to agree with those who notice similarities.

Sildi, Dagestan, home of Khabib Nurmagomedov and the region is really notable for producing fighters also a hotbed of ancestral G2a (I believe literally the highest concentration on earth). At first, I thought that region was probably just the "birthplace of freestyle wrestling" but the fighters span so many different styles including foreign and unrelated ones.

Abruzzo, Sardinia, Dagestan, Ossetia, Georgia what do these areas have in common? Quite a few behavioral traits that few people could deny. Let's start with "obstinacy" and some sort of inclination towards physical fighting. Abruzzo being a bit of an outlier due to extremely high amounts of post-Neolithic admixture. Unfortunately, my geopolitical work has also made me realize the region produces a lot of the very dangerous religious zealots. When religious zealots from that region reach an active ideological-based war zone, "things hit the fan" whether it be once they reached the Balkans, Iraq, or their own wars for independence against Russia. In regards to the Balkans, this is speaking tremendous volumes. Certain groups "had things under control" until insurgents from that region joined the mix.

I'm sorry but "cultural similarities" explaining these things despite complete geographic isolation from one another and absolutely no shared common history for several thousand years factually does not in anyway explain these commonalities. I think people from the Caucasus will agree and unlike some people on this forum, will take this as a huge compliment rather than living by the maxim that "violence of any kind is indicative of low intelligence". Sorry also factually false. Take a look at the IQ's of the American spec ops community who have the highest tempo rotations of anyone possibly on planet earth at the moment after 18 years of low-intensity foreign wars with an all volunteer service...

Now this post is about physical characteristics. Since that seems to be "up for debate". The head shape is also almost block-like. "Oh that's just shared autosomal genetic ancestry stretching back to the Neolithic". Ya perhaps it is... and so would it not make sense that the Neolithic Farmers weren't pacifist peace loving hippies and actually extremely obstinate and ferocious and thus were wiped out violently in a series of wars against the invading Indo-Europeans who were phenotypically radically different? Wiped out practically to a last man in most regions of Europe. Sound like a... "culture clash" of the highest order vs the current narrative of: "The Indo-Europeans were just peaceful pastoralists who just simply out reproduced the Neolithic farmers because of "higher sperm counts" (even though absolutely nothing scientific would indicate this to be true[ie. nothing indicates R1b/R1a have higher sperm motility than G2a but somehow that's the narrative on this forum])".

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/y-chromosome-more-sex-switch

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13151
 
View attachment 11657
Massively redacted due to too much personal identifying information. Long story short, I'm going to have to agree with those who notice similarities.
Sildi, Dagestan, home of Khabib Nurmagomedov and the region is really notable for producing fighters also a hotbed of ancestral G2a (I believe literally the highest concentration on earth). At first, I thought that region was probably just the "birthplace of freestyle wrestling" but the fighters span so many different styles including foreign and unrelated ones.
Abruzzo, Sardinia, Dagestan, Ossetia, Georgia what do these areas have in common? Quite a few behavioral traits that few people could deny. Let's start with "obstinacy" and some sort of inclination towards physical fighting. Abruzzo being a bit of an outlier due to extremely high amounts of post-Neolithic admixture. Unfortunately, my geopolitical work has also made me realize the region produces a lot of the very dangerous religious zealots. When religious zealots from that region reach an active ideological-based war zone, "things hit the fan" whether it be once they reached the Balkans, Iraq, or their own wars for independence against Russia. In regards to the Balkans, this is speaking tremendous volumes. Certain groups "had things under control" until insurgents from that region joined the mix.
I'm sorry but "cultural similarities" explaining these things despite complete geographic isolation from one another and absolutely no shared common history for several thousand years factually does not in anyway explain these commonalities. I think people from the Caucasus will agree and unlike some people on this forum, will take this as a huge compliment rather than living by the maxim that "violence of any kind is indicative of low intelligence". Sorry also factually false. Take a look at the IQ's of the American spec ops community who have the highest tempo rotations of anyone possibly on planet earth at the moment after 18 years of low-intensity foreign wars with an all volunteer service...
Now this post is about physical characteristics. Since that seems to be "up for debate". The head shape is also almost block-like. "Oh that's just shared autosomal genetic ancestry stretching back to the Neolithic". Ya perhaps it is... and so would it not make sense that the Neolithic Farmers weren't pacifist peace loving hippies and actually extremely obstinate and ferocious and thus were wiped out violently in a series of wars against the invading Indo-Europeans who were phenotypically radically different? Wiped out practically to a last man in most regions of Europe. Sound like a... "culture clash" of the highest order vs the current narrative of: "The Indo-Europeans were just peaceful pastoralists who just simply out reproduced the Neolithic farmers because of "higher sperm counts" (even though absolutely nothing scientific would indicate this to be true[ie. nothing indicates R1b/R1a have higher sperm motility than G2a but somehow that's the narrative on this forum])".
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/y-chromosome-more-sex-switch
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13151
Pater, I'm a bit bored about this subject, since I talked too much about it*, but I'll give this one more answer (I assume you read all this thread already?).
Firstly, interesting articles. Y chromosome is obviously important. But keep in mind that Y chromosome as a whole and a given Y "haplogroup" are two distinct dimensions.
Yeah, I know it'd be cool if haplogroups left that visible marks on their "carriers", but we've to deal with the impositive reality. For example, regarding Stalin (I see you deleted your first post, but here we go), even if haplogroups have/had some importance in this regard, it wouldn't be that obvious. Naturally, the comparison between two G individuals would not be enough to evidence such substantial influence of the hg over head shape or whatever. Rather, you'd need a great sampling showing it really compete in an important way with Autosomal. Things certainly are way more complex than "I look like Stalin".
I'm G-L497 myself, btw, and I'd be an easy exemplum in contrarium, if it were the case.
Also, not sure why you'd use G as a link between those areas you mentioned, under a genetic perspective, given it's really, really common just in Ossetia (Georgia has regional differences, and G is really common in western half). Certainly the people from Abruzzo don't own whatever supposed characteristics they have to an hg that is not even frequent among them (up to 10%).

Finally, I'm not sure why you'd assume you're G-L497 without testing further. If you are, that would be, say, "casual". There are many other G clades in Europe, and G-L497 is not the most common everywhere in the continent.

*Related posts:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=589593#post589593
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=589795#post589795
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=589894#post589894
 
Pater, I'm a bit bored about this subject, since I talked too much about it*, but I'll give this one more answer (I assume you read all this thread already?).
Firstly, interesting articles. Y chromosome is obviously important. But keep in mind that Y chromosome as a whole and a given Y "haplogroup" are two distinct dimensions.
Yeah, I know it'd be cool if haplogroups left that visible marks on their "carriers", but we've to deal with the impositive reality. For example, regarding Stalin (I see you deleted your first post, but here we go), even if haplogroups have/had some importance in this regard, it wouldn't be that obvious. Naturally, the comparison between two G individuals would not be enough to evidence such substantial influence of the hg over head shape or whatever. Rather, you'd need a great sampling showing it really compete in an important way with Autosomal. Things certainly are way more complex than "I look like Stalin".
I'm G-L497 myself, btw, and I'd be an easy exemplum in contrarium, if it were the case.
Also, not sure why you'd use G as a link between those areas you mentioned, under a genetic perspective, given it's really, really common just in Ossetia (Georgia has regional differences, and G is really common in western half). Certainly the people from Abruzzo don't own whatever supposed characteristics they have to an hg that is not even frequent among them (up to 10%).

Finally, I'm not sure why you'd assume you're G-L497 without testing further. If you are, that would be, say, "casual". There are many other G clades in Europe, and G-L497 is not the most common everywhere in the continent.

*Related posts:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=589593#post589593
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=589795#post589795
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=589894#post589894

I can't go into details. You saw the redacted version but I'd like to maintain some retroactive privacy from the rest of the public.

If the Y-chromosome may function as the "control chromosome" thus manipulating the autosomal and autosomal combinations create discernible characteristics in different populations, why would it be a stretch to say the Y-chromosome might cause the autosomal DNA effecting head shape to be that way?

Furthermore, I am not G-L497 just G-L30. Given that would make me one of only a few people in the world with no downstream clade of G-L30 and the high % of G-L497 relative to anything else in Europe, I put G-L497 because assuming I'm just G-L30 full stop would seem absurd at best. However, it's entirely possible that I am, in fact, G-L30 with no downstream. It would just be so statistically rare for Italy that it would not benefit research to operate under that assumption. However, let's assume this to be the case, then that would mean I do share an even more specific clade with Stalin than you as a G-L497 that mutated much more recently than mine or Stalin's.

https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupgproject/xtra-samples-g2a5

So far, only one man
has been found to have L30 and simultaneously be negative for the two L30
subgroups.

I've done the FamilyTreeDNA Big 700 which is the deepest subclade test commercially available. I don't test positive for downstream clades of G-L30. So I assume the tests to be wrong unless I'm literally pretty much the only man on earth with G-L30.

Correct me here if I'm wrong.
 
I can't go into details. You saw the redacted version but I'd like to maintain some retroactive privacy from the rest of the public.
If the Y-chromosome may function as the "control chromosome" thus manipulating the autosomal and autosomal combinations create discernible characteristics in different populations, why would it be a stretch to say the Y-chromosome might cause the autosomal DNA effecting head shape to be that way?
Furthermore, I am not G-L497 just G-L30. Given that would make me one of only a few people in the world with no downstream clade of G-L30 and the high % of G-L497 relative to anything else in Europe, I put G-L497 because assuming I'm just G-L30 full stop would seem absurd at best. However, it's entirely possible that I am, in fact, G-L30 with no downstream. It would just be so statistically rare for Italy that it would not benefit research to operate under that assumption. However, let's assume this to be the case, then that would mean I do share an even more specific clade with Stalin than you as a G-L497 that mutated much more recently than mine or Stalin's.
https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupgproject/xtra-samples-g2a5
So far, only one man
has been found to have L30 and simultaneously be negative for the two L30
subgroups.

I don't test positive for downstream clades of G. So I assume the tests to be wrong unless I'm literally pretty much the only man on earth with G-L30.
Correct me here if I'm wrong.
Pater, I wouldn't even know how to begin. :)
Let's go in short...
Again, regarding the articles, you're seeing "human Y chromosome" and reading "Y generic (sub-)haplogroups".
As for G-L30, it's also possible you tested an old version of 23andMe. Is that so? More recent versions tested additional SNPs. You should just test G Superpanel at YSEQ. Not that expensive.
Stalin belongs to some branch below G2a1, while G-L497 is under G2a2.

Btw, a clade that you and Stalin shares? Aren't you G-L497 anymore? :) Man, you do look a bit confused, because Stalin is not even G-L30 (G2a2b).
Finally, why do you think G-L497 mutated more recently? It depends on which clade it's being compared to.
 
Pater, I wouldn't even know how to begin. :) Let's go in short...Again, you're seeing "human Y chromosome" and reading "Y generic (sub-)haplogroups".As for G-L30, it's also possible you tested an old version of 23andMe. Is that so? More recent versions tested additional SNPs. You should just test G Superpanel at YSEQ. Not that expensive.Stalin belongs to some branch below G2a1, while G-L497 is under G2a2.Btw, a clade that you and Stalin shares? Aren't you G-L497 anymore? :) Man, you do look a bit confused, because Stalin is not even G-L30 (G2a2b). Finally, why do you think G-L497 mutated more recently? It depends on which clade it's being compared to.
Read what I said. I did the FamilyTreeDNA Big 700. Does 700 short tandem repeats and 200k SNP's. It's the deepest subclade test available. It concluded I am G-L30 with no downstream thus I invalidate the evidence because I would be 1/2 men on earth with this.Stalin's original clade is more similar to mine than G-L497. Date of mutation? I am referring to original date of mutation.
 
G-Siblings! ... It seems the Y chromosome definitely has some problematic SNPs, it's good if the women don't have it.
 
Read what I said. I did the FamilyTreeDNA Big 700. Does 700 short tandem repeats and 200k SNP's. It's the deepest subclass test available. It concluded I am G-L30 with no downstream thus I invalidate the evidence because I would be 1/2 men on earth with this.
Stalin's original clade is more similar to mine than G-L497. Date of mutation? I am referring to original date of mutation.
Read and watch your mouth.
Lol Firstly you suggested - in the "deleted message" - you tested at 23andMe and that you don't know if you're G-L497. Now you say you tested BigY and you're G-L30*. Hmm Right!

No, dude, every G-L497 is also G-L30. The most recent common patrilineal ancestor of any G-L497 man and any other G-L30 man lived more recently compared to the time of the most recent common ancestor of G-L30 and Stalin's clade. Have you ever heard about YFull and TMRCAs?
Jesus! This is a crazy talk!
 
Lol Firstly you suggested - in the "deleted message" - you tested at 23andMe and that you don't know if you're G-L497. Now you say you tested BigY and you're G-L30*. Hmm Right!
No, dude, every G-L497 is also G-L30. The most recent common patrilineal ancestor of any G-L497 man and any other G-L30 man lived more recently compared to the time of the most recent common ancestor of G-L30 and Stalin's clade. Have you ever heard about YFull and TMRCAs?
Jesus! Keep talking alone.

Your suggestion is to do a deeper subclade test and I've done the deepest. 23andme had me also at G-L30 hence why I was told to do a deep subclade test. Well I did EXACTLY what you are suggesting and got the same result.

As far as not sharing a common ancestor with Stalin, how is this possible if G-L30 WITHOUT DOWNSTREAM CLADES is ANCESTRAL to G-L497 AND Stalin's?
 
Your suggestion is to do a deeper subclade test and I've done the deepest. 23andme had me also at G-L30 hence why I was told to do a deep subclade test. Well I did EXACTLY what you are suggesting and got the same result.

As far as sharing a common ancestor with Stalin, how is this possible if G-L30 WITHOUT DOWNSTREAM CLADES is ANCESTRAL to G-L497 AND Stalin's?
You said you didn't know if you are G-L497, but you supposedly tested BigY.

It seems you didn't get it yet. G-L30 (G2a2b) is ancestral to G-L497, but not to Stalin's clade (G2a1). Please stop talking and go doing a basic research.

I'm done here!
 
You said you didn't know if you are G-L497, but you supposedly tested BigY.

It seems you didn't get it yet. G-L30 (G2a2b) is ancestral to G-L497, but not to Stalin's clade (G2a1). Please stop talking and go doing a basic research.

I'm done here!

No you didn't read what I posted. I said I did not believe 23andme so I was told to do the Big 700 and I also don't believe that. Why would I? It would literally mean I'm 1/2 men detected without a downstream clade. That would be foolish to believe instead of believing that perhaps the test is flawed. Then again, if everyone on here is basing their paternal haplogroups on far less subclade testing then I guess by that standard I am G-L30. Main thing is you need to improve your reading skills.

Stalin being G2a1 is news to me. Give me a link.

Also, even if he were G2a1, G-L30 IS STILL WAY CLOSER THAN G-L497.
 
You said you didn't know if you are G-L497, but you supposedly tested BigY.

It seems you didn't get it yet. G-L30 (G2a2b) is ancestral to G-L497, but not to Stalin's clade (G2a1). Please stop talking and go doing a basic research.

I'm done here!

View attachment 11661

You not believing that I'm G-L30 despite the deepest subclade test is the only issue here. Either that or your absolutely horrible reading comprehension skills. Pick your poison.

You just continue to parrot the same thing which can be summarized by the following: "I have reading comprehension levels similar to that of a housefly. I'm going to continuously ignore that you've addressed both the G-L30 23andme/Big 700 subclade downstream points and continue to parrot nonsense about how that must be impossible and redundantly repeat that you haven't done deep enough testing despite doing the deepest test commercially available. Now I'm "done" here because I'm unable to fathom the possibility that you are possibly a very ancient clade of G-L30 that is in fact closer to G2a1 than G-L497 so I'm just going to repeat myself over and over"................
 
Vă rog să incetați. Nu prea are legătură cu subiectul. Mulțumesc anticipat!
 
Pater, please stop sending me "kind" PMs.
Thanks!
 
It's a two way street, my friend. Stop ignoring my posts and responding with insults like calling me "confused" just because you've clearly lost a debate.
 
View attachment 11661
You not believing that I'm G-L30 despite the deepest subclade test is the only issue here. Either that or your absolutely horrible reading comprehension skills. Pick your poison.
You just continue to parrot the same thing which can be summarized by the following: "I have reading comprehension levels similar to that of a housefly. I'm going to continuously ignore that you've addressed both the G-L30 23andme/Big 700 subclade downstream points and continue to parrot nonsense about how that must be impossible and redundantly repeat that you haven't done deep enough testing despite doing the deepest test commercially available. Now I'm "done" here because I'm unable to fathom the possibility that you are possibly a very ancient clade of G-L30 that is in fact closer to G2a1 than G-L497 so I'm just going to repeat myself over and over"................
Dear Pater, then go to FTDNA and inform Italy as your patrilineal location, because I couldn't find an Italian G-L30* in Block Tree. If you tested BigY, you should have made it clear in the message you deleted, but you mentioned only 23andMe, and suggested you didn't know if you are G-L497. Assuming you did test BigY, then next time communicate it better.

I'll try to explain it again, because you seem to be a newbie after all. No problem, but you should be more open and try to learn something rather than insist on error.

Firstly, Stalin was G-Z6552, i.e., G2a1. Stalin was not G-L30 (G2a2b) then.

This is the ISOGG phylogenetic tree of G:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/111Iqo0vRt-sr8MJT7pavKQ0qoWxYSc1P7hnMRq3GijU/edit#gid=0

Notice that G-L30 is G2a2b, so everybody below G-L30 is closer to each other than they are to G-Z6552 (G2a1), when it comes to patrilineal ancestry.

This is the YFull tree of G2a (G-P15):
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-P15/

TMRCA means Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor. The TMRCA between Stalin (G-Z6552) and us (you and me, G-L30, since I'm G-L497 then also G-L30) is 17400 ybp (years before present), which naturally corresponds to G-P15's. The TMRCA between you and I, in turn, corresponds to G-L30's, which is 14400 ybp. Got it? Our most recent common patrilineal ancestor lived 3000 years after your and Stalin's.

So, stop getting offended when I say you're confused. Don't be proud. Just try to understand what is written and learn something. No problem at all on it. If you're not getting what is written due to lack of details on my part, than ask deeper explanations.

ED: correction.
 
Dear Pater, then go to FTDNA and inform Italy as your patrilineal location, because I couldn't find an Italian G-L30* in Block Tree. If you tested BigY, you should have made it clear in the message you deleted, but you mentioned only 23andMe, and suggested you didn't know if you are G-L497. Assuming you did test BigY, then next time communicate it better.

I'll try to explain it again, because you seem to be a newbie after all. No problem, but you should be more open and try to learn something rather than insist on error.

Firstly, Stalin was G-Z6552, i.e., G2a1. Stalin was not G-L30 (G2a2b) then.

This is the ISOGG phylogenetic tree of G:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/111Iqo0vRt-sr8MJT7pavKQ0qoWxYSc1P7hnMRq3GijU/edit#gid=0

Notice that G-L30 is G2a2b, so everybody below G-L30 is closer to each other than they are to G-Z6552 (G2a1), when it comes to patrilineal ancestry.

This is the YFull tree of G2a (G-P15):
https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-P15/

TMRCA means Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor. The TMRCA between Stalin (G-Z6552) and us (you and me, G-L30, since I'm G-L497 then also G-L30) is 17400 ybp (years before present), which naturally corresponds to G-P15's. The TMRCA between you and I, in turn, corresponds to G-L30's, which is 14400 ybp. Got it? Our most recent common patrilineal ancestor lived 3000 years after your and Stalin's.

So, stop getting offended when I say you're confused. Don't be proud. Just try to understand what is written and learn something. No problem at all on it. If you're not getting what is written due to lack of details on my part, than ask deeper explanations

ED: correction.

"Cant find an Italian G-L30"... Yes, like I said, it would make me one of 2 people on PLANET EARTH with that and no downstream thus I do not agree with 23andme or FamilyTreeDNA as I've said at least 3 times. You don't read my posts. Why did I originally postulate G-L497? I SPECIFICALLY said this is because a G-L30 Big 700 and 23andme result most both be erroneous. If not, then yes I am a rarity but as I said countless times, this must be due to error. Again READ.

Compare Stalin's G-L293 it to my G-L30 erroneous clade. Compare G-L293 to G-L30 because until some magical deeper test comes around to further clarify, all I have to go by is that I'm G-L30.

G-L497 mutated in the end of the Neolithic right before the Bronze Age so how on earth could G-L30, which mutated and branched off of the G2a parent group in the EARLY NEOLITHIC possibly not be ancestral to yours and much closer in time to the TMRCA of G-L293?!

"You are also G-L30" sure then we're all Africans by that logic. No mine is older and thus closer to the common TMRCA split that yielded G2a1 and G-L30. You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay downstream of that. Got it?

2 Problems here:

1) You don't read.

2) You don't believe I'm G-L30 and think I'm something downstream. I agree but the evidence suggests this to be false. So until a better test than the Big 700 rolls around, I have to operate under the strange condition that I'm a lost clade of G-L30. There is 1 other man confirmed to be this. I have no information on what country he is from. That would make myself and any paternal relatives (few) also in that exclusive group. Your disbelief is causing you to repeat yourself like a mindless parrot.

3) G-L30 full stop IS NOT = G-L497. G-L497 came MUCH later. Thus your specific subclade is MUCH NEWER THAN MINE. Therefore, mine is MUCH CLOSER TO STALIN'S. Sorry to burst your bubble, you are a common clade G-L497, I am not. Time to be a little more sentient.

-Shortened Version for Regio who struggles with reading: I am a VERY ANCIENT and UPSTREAM clade of G2a, far more ancient than your very recent G-L497. YOU ARE NOT BASE G-L30 YOU ARE DOWNSTREAM OF G-L30. Thus the TMRCA of MY haplogroup IS FACTUALLY CLOSER IN TIME TO STALIN'S THAN YOURS. Pay attention.

To everyone else who has to suffer through Regio's complete disregard for people's posts and who only wants to parrot the minimal knowledge he has on the subject, I'm very sorry. If, unlike Regio, you actually take the time to read my posts, you will see that he is literally a broken record on repeat incapable of reading what I post.
 
"Cant find an Italian G-L30"... Yes, like I said, it would make me one of 2 people on PLANET EARTH with that and no downstream thus I do not agree with 23andme or FamilyTreeDNA as I've said at least 3 times. You don't read my posts. Why did I originally postulate G-L497? I SPECIFICALLY said this is because a G-L30 Big 700 and 23andme result most both be erroneous. If not, then yes I am a rarity but as I said countless times, this must be due to error. Again READ.

Compare Stalin's G-L293 it to my G-L30 erroneous clade. Compare G-L293 to G-L30 because until some magical deeper test comes around to further clarify, all I have to go by is that I'm G-L30.

G-L497 mutated in the end of the Neolithic right before the Bronze Age so how on earth could G-L30, which mutated and branched off of the G2a parent group in the EARLY NEOLITHIC possibly not be ancestral to yours and much closer in time to the TMRCA of G-L293?!

"You are also G-L30" sure then we're all Africans by that logic. No mine is older and thus closer to the common TMRCA split that yielded G2a1 and G-L30. You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay downstream of that. Got it?

2 Problems here:

1) You don't read.

2) You don't believe I'm G-L30 and think I'm something downstream. I agree but the evidence suggests this to be false. So until a better test than the Big 700 rolls around, I have to operate under the strange condition that I'm a lost clade of G-L30. There is 1 other man confirmed to be this. I have no information on what country he is from. That would make myself and any paternal relatives (few) also in that exclusive group. Your disbelief is causing you to repeat yourself like a mindless parrot.

3) G-L30 full stop IS NOT = G-L497. G-L497 came MUCH later. Thus your specific subclade is MUCH NEWER THAN MINE. Therefore, mine is MUCH CLOSER TO STALIN'S. Sorry to burst your bubble, you are a common clade G-L497, I am not. Time to be a little more sentient.

-Shortened Version for Regio who struggles with reading: I am a VERY ANCIENT and UPSTREAM clade of G2a, far more ancient than your very recent G-L497. YOU ARE NOT BASE G-L30 YOU ARE DOWNSTREAM OF G-L30. Thus the TMRCA of MY haplogroup IS FACTUALLY CLOSER IN TIME TO STALIN'S THAN YOURS. Pay attention.
(y)
 

Excellent. I'm glad you finally realize you have a sub-100 IQ. What is your IQ, sir? I know mine after 2 separate tests by psychologists. One was 4 hours long the other 6 split into three 2 hours segments.

What is your IQ? Please tell the forum.
 

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