Genetic ancestry changes in Stone to Bronze Age transition in the East European plain

Shahmiri and Punish Them 911 would make a good couple. Both are blind to facts because of their ethnic pride.
 
How does ethnic pride motivate the latter?

I know some older posts from him. He is just blinde to fact that there are no majority blonde blue eyed indoeuropean aryan "Übermensch". Maybe I should have called him Nordicist from the beginning and his username is just magnificent :grin:.
 
Shahmiri and Punish Them 911 would make a good couple. Both are blind to facts because of their ethnic pride.

It is much better to be blind to facts because of ethnic pride than ethnic hatred. However this discussion has nothing to modern ethnicities, there has been several migrations from and to Iran in the last thousands years, I believe modern Europeans are much closer to ancient people of Iran than modern Iranians.
 
It is much better to be blind to facts because of ethnic pride than ethnic hatred. However this discussion has nothing to modern ethnicities, there has been several migrations from and to Iran in the last thousands years, I believe modern Europeans are much closer to ancient people of Iran than modern Iranians.

There's no basis for the last statement at all. Just sounds like the crazy Nordicist theories that Iran was inhabited by European like people till the Turks and Arabs showed up. The people that represent the most ancient Iranians the best are populations high in Iran_N so basically Pakistani Balochis and Brahui (they're low in Steppe_MLBA and AASI too). Later Iranians had more Anatolia_N and then obviously Steppe_MLBA makes an appearance. Other than some Turkic impact in Azerbaijan and Khorosan and some Arab impact in Khuzestan there's no massive discontinuity.
 
I know some older posts from him. He is just blinde to fact that there are no majority blonde blue eyed indoeuropean aryan "Übermensch". Maybe I should have called him Nordicist from the beginning and his username is just magnificent :grin:.

I see. The Japan flag was throwing me off.
 
There's no basis for the last statement at all. Just sounds like the crazy Nordicist theories that Iran was inhabited by European like people till the Turks and Arabs showed up. The people that represent the most ancient Iranians the best are populations high in Iran_N so basically Pakistani Balochis and Brahui (they're low in Steppe_MLBA and AASI too). Later Iranians had more Anatolia_N and then obviously Steppe_MLBA makes an appearance. Other than some Turkic impact in Azerbaijan and Khorosan and some Arab impact in Khuzestan there's no massive discontinuity.

I mostly meant culturally than genetically, the same thing can be said about people of Turkey, those who live in Greece and other parts of Europe are closer to the ancient people of Turkey than modern Turks who live there.
 
I mostly meant culturally than genetically, the same thing can be said about people of Turkey, those who live in Greece and other parts of Europe are closer to the ancient people of Turkey than modern Turks who live there.

Well in the case of Turkey the people of Greece and Armenia are obviously closer to ancient Turkey than modern Turks.
 
Well in the case of Turkey the people of Greece and Armenia are obviously closer to ancient Turkey than modern Turks.

After several years of researching about ancient Iran, I also believe that the people of Greece and other parts of Europe are closer to pre-Iranian people than modern Iranians. Probably for the same reason ancient Persian kings had focused on Greece and finally some people from this region conquered their empire. It seems Xerxes knew this thing when he said to Greeks "We are descended from your nation" but from another side Greek culture seems to be his major problem, in his Daiva Inscription, he says: "there were among these countries (some) which worshipped and performed religious services to the daiva. But, by the favor of Ahura Mazda I eradicated these daivadana and proclaimed (as follows): The daiva shall not be worshipped (anymore). Thus, wherever formerly the daiva were worshipped, there I worshipped Ahuramazda and Arta reverent(ly)." Herzfeld who first published the text argued that the daiva were the pre-Zoroastrians deities whose temples (the daivadana) in Iran were destroyed by Xerxes but we know he just destroyed Greek temples, like the Old Temple of Athena. Iranian daiva has the same origin of Mycenaean Greek diwo and Ancient Greek zeus from Proto-Indo-European *dyḗws.
 
Mesolithic EHG were as dark overall as Sub-Saharan Africans (imagine them looking more Ethiopian or Somalian).
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I don't see how that can be, as EHG had high frequencies of SLC24a5 and SLC45a2 light-pigmentation alleles, along with other light pigmentation alleles, and lacked the dark pigmentation alleles identified by Crawford et al. 2017 in sub-Saharan African populations.
 
It's really during the Iron Age that Northeast Europeans started becoming blue-eyed blonds.

The Tarim mummies have blonde and red hair. Nordic Bronze Age mummies also have blonde hair.


"The derived allele of the KITLG SNP rs12821256 that is associated with – and likely causal for – blond hair in Europeans is present in one hunter-gatherer from each of Samara, Motala and Ukraine (I0124, I0014 and I1763), as well as several later individuals with Steppe ancestry. Since the allele is found in populations with EHG but not WHG ancestry, it suggests that its origin is in the Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) population. Consistent with this, we observe that earliest known individual with the derived allele is the [Siberian] ANE individual Afontova Gora 3 which is directly dated to 16130-15749 cal BCE."

Mathieson et al. 2018, Supplementary Information
 
Well in the case of Turkey the people of Greece and Armenia are obviously closer to ancient Turkey than modern Turks.

Maybe Armenians are, but most Greeks, especially Greek mainlanders are not IMHO. Pre-Turkic Anatolians are closer to modern Anatolian Greeks from the Mediterranean coast and Cappadocia, even more closely, IIRC, than to Armenians. But most mainlander Greeks (modern ones at least) have too much ANF and steppe to fully represent the medieval Anatolians.
 
Even in this study about "Genetic ancestry changes in Stone to Bronze Age transition in the East European plain", we read about Fatyanovo individuals: "These populations are composed of the blue “WHG” and yellow “Khanty” component and two brown components maximized in HG from the Caucasus and Iran, similarly to Yamnaya populations."

Whether through the Caucasus or Anatolia, Iran is the original source where pastoralism originated, in fact about 4,000 BC Iranian pastoralists migrated to the steppe and spread their own culture.

There is no evidence of such a migration (certainly not that late), and most studies find CHG a much better fit for the southern input into the steppes than Iran_N, though it is indeed true that both are so similar, differentiated only by some relatively minor proportions of ancestral components, that there is a high likelihood that the calculators may assign ancestry to one or the other somewhat inaccurately.

Besides, by 4000 B.C. the Eneolithic Steppe already had a lot of CHG, and according to a very recent article by Anthony on the Indo-European question there are several other Eneolithic Steppe samples to be published which prove that southerners' expansion into the steppe happened roughly between the early 6th and the mid 5th millennium B.C. So, certainly before 4500 BC. Therefore it is very unlikely that PIE developed outside the steppe and only a particular early branch of it moved into the steppe. The EHG:CHG admixture had begun many centuries or even more than a millennnium before PIE was last spoken as a common language.

As Maciamo mentioend:
R1b in Yamnaya:

R1b-migration-map.jpg


R1a in the Corded Ware and Fatyanovo:

1024px-R1a_origins_%28Underhill_2010%29_and_R1a1a_oldest_expansion_and_highest_frequency_%282014%29.jpg


There is one common source: Iran

All those maps, IF THEY ARE CORRECT, are talking about the very early origins of R1b and R1a. The steppe Indo-European expansion is not associated with that event, but with the spread of very specific and much more recent clades, especially R1b-Z2103, R1b-L51, R1a-M417, and so on. Again: chronology matters. If you're talking about IE languages and cultures, it doesn't really matter much where R1b and R1a first appeared and started to spread from. That would've been dozens of thousands of years before PIE was spoken in its latest stages, so even in the unlikely hypothesis of complete continuity between lineages and the languages and cultures originally associated with them, culture and language would've changed so much as to become totally unrecognizable.
 
Shahmiri and Punish Them 911 would make a good couple. Both are blind to facts because of their ethnic pride.

Indeed, and as for the issue of whether it's better to be blind by ethnic pride than ethnic hate I'd say that sooner or later they become just two sides of the same coin. ;)
 

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