Palermo Trapani
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YGORCS: I was just playing around with all the Siclian Samples that are in Dodecad 12B and I estimated Sicilian Beaker I4930's coordinates and Sicilian Beaker I4936. Just a quick look at top 25 distances, all them have distances to Neolithic, Chalcolithic samples from Anatolia, Balkans, the Roman Neolithic samples, some get Roman Antiquity, and Iron Age Romans in those top 25 and some as best matches. I can get distances from 2 to 4 on the low end for pretty much all of them to around 10 on top end. One of them, I4383 has distances of 9 to 13 as top 25, and is Levant ancestry for the most part. The Sicilian_Beaker I4930 closest distance is to Minoan I9129, and 2nd closest is Kumtepe6 at 7.5. Sicilian_Beaker_I4936 top 3 matches are Iron Age Romans at 9.8 to 9.9 (R1015, R1016, and R1021). To keep my post at a managable level, here are the top 10 distances for all the Sicilian samples from Fernades et al 2020 and the 2 Sicilian_Bell Beakers. So yes, while they had some Steppe ancestry, even those Bronze Age Sicilians still were predominantly Neolithic EEF type from Anatolia, Balkans, etc, correct?
So I am curios, if you can run your G25 program on these Sicilian samples and see how they can be modeled with respect to the Roman samples, most of these were already similar to those Roman samples, 14 of the 25 and most of the others seem similar to Greek/Anatolians. So seems in totality those ancient Sicilian Samples were Roman to Greek like already, some a little more towards 1, some the other, but it seems like Sicilians by 2000 BC had people that resembled the Iron Age Romans, hence the Southern Shifted Iron Age Romans are really not that surprising perhaps? (I don't think they are) and Imperial Romans, at least the 31 of 48 that in terms of distribution range from Central Italy to Malta then over to Greece, Crete, etc, is not really that surprising perhaps as well? ( I don't personally think it is).
Distance to: | I10373_Sicily_LBA_Marcita |
---|---|
2.08074506 | I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
2.46432547 | NE1_Hungary_5230BC |
2.54560405 | I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
2.78095307 | I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.33490630 | I1109_Malak_Preslavets |
4.08718730 | I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.09997561 | I0022_LBK1976_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
4.65787505 | R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
5.17963319 | I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.18411998 | I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
Distance to: | I10372_Sicily_LBA_Marcita |
---|---|
4.12688745 | I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.38588646 | NE1_Hungary_5230BC |
4.69982978 | I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.77678762 | I1109_Malak_Preslavets |
5.08423052 | I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.29839598 | I0048_HAL25_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5052_calBCE |
5.34949530 | I0022_LBK1976_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
5.47462327 | R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
5.85100846 | R19_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
6.09132170 | I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
Distance to: | I10371_Sicily_LBA_Marcita |
---|---|
3.24140402 | I5068_LBK_Austria |
3.37772113 | I2509_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.61868761 | I3948_Balkans_Neolithic |
4.16461283 | I3433_Balkans_Neolithic |
4.55655572 | Anatolia_N_Bar8_Barcin |
4.61166998 | I0698_Balkans_Neolithic |
4.70006383 | I2521_Balkans_Neolithic |
4.84339757 | I5069_LBK_Austria |
4.88729987 | I0785_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.12469511 | R9_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
Distance to: | I4383_Sicily_EBA_lowcov_Vallone_Inferno |
---|---|
9.27571561 | I1679_AG037C_early_PPNC_Ain_Ghazal_Jordan |
9.32486461 | I1707_AG83_5_Late_MPPNB |
9.33427555 | I1727_AG_83_3082_Early_MPPNB |
9.45480830 | I0644_Peqi’in_Cave_Upper_Galilee_Chalcolithic_Levant |
9.48284240 | I1414_AG84/1_Early_MPPNB_Ain_Ghazal_Jordan |
9.65359519 | I1710_AG83_6_Middle_MPPNB |
10.16158944 | I1178_Peqi’in_Cave_Upper_Galilee_Chalcolithic_Levant |
10.93192572 | I1182_Peqi’in_Cave_Upper_Galilee_Chalcolithic_Levant |
10.99811347 | I0867_Motz1_Late_PPNB_Motza_Israel |
11.02119322 | I1169_Peqi’in_Cave_Upper_Galilee_Chalcolithic_Levant |
Distance to: | I4109_Sicily_MBA_Buffa_Cave_II |
---|---|
2.38574936 | NE1_Hungary_5230BC |
3.05437391 | I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.62405850 | I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.66387773 | I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.74030747 | I2509_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.16468486 | I5068_LBK_Austria |
4.36044722 | R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
4.38387956 | I0026_LBK2155_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
4.38387956 | I0054_UWS4_LBK_EN_Unterwiederstedt_Germany_5209-5070_calBCE |
4.87456665 | I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
Distance to: | I3878_Sicily_LBA_Marcita |
---|---|
3.10774838 | I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.41202286 | I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.45666024 | I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.46754957 | I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.35386036 | NE1_Hungary_5230BC |
4.51811908 | I1109_Malak_Preslavets |
5.09864688 | R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
5.42331080 | ANI159_ANI181_Varna |
5.53299196 | I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.95218447 | I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
Distance to: | I3876_Sicily_LBA_Marcita |
---|---|
5.72220237 | I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.93046373 | ANI159_ANI181_Varna |
6.42632088 | I9033_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Peristeria_Tryfilia_Peloponnese |
6.43125182 | I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
6.81532098 | I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
6.95271170 | I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
7.51433297 | NE1_Hungary_5230BC |
7.75719021 | I0026_LBK2155_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
7.75719021 | I0054_UWS4_LBK_EN_Unterwiederstedt_Germany_5209-5070_calBCE |
7.89376970 | I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
Distance to: | I11443_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II |
---|---|
3.40296929 | Collegno94 |
3.85862670 | R1224_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria |
4.02052235 | France_IA_NOR2B6 |
4.41479331 | Collegno47 |
4.48606732 | NorthAlpineBronzeAgeFrench_AITI_120 |
4.62529999 | R1221_Medieval_Era_Cancelleria |
4.93207867 | Collegno102 |
4.93511905 | R108_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi |
4.98007028 | NorthAlpineBronzeAgeSpanishGalicia_AITI_72 |
5.28465704 | I3866_NE_Iberia_c.6-8CE_ES |
Distance to: | I11442_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II |
---|---|
2.37804542 | I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.69582197 | I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.38094739 | I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.47598034 | I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.80716132 | I1109_Malak_Preslavets |
4.90296849 | ANI159_ANI181_Varna |
5.43899807 | I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.63592938 | I1295_Malak_Preslavets |
5.73584344 | I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
6.98156859 | ANI160_Varna_Outlier |
Distance to: | I3125_Sicily_MBA_Buffa_Cave_II |
---|---|
3.69119222 | I2427_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.42179828 | I0026_LBK2155_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
4.42179828 | I0054_UWS4_LBK_EN_Unterwiederstedt_Germany_5209-5070_calBCE |
4.68846457 | NE1_Hungary_5230BC |
4.80381099 | I2509_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.81193308 | I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.61080208 | I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.67676845 | I0048_HAL25_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5052_calBCE |
5.90437973 | Anatolia_N_Klei10 |
5.96377397 | I2521_Balkans_Neolithic |
Distance to: | I3124_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II |
---|---|
4.93095325 | I1295_Malak_Preslavets |
5.24644642 | I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge |
5.51750850 | I0706_Balkans_Neolithic |
6.29726131 | I2110_Trypillia |
6.56469344 | I16163_Sardinia_IA_Anghelu_Ruju |
6.77674701 | Bul10_Balkans_BronzeAge |
7.76561009 | R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia |
7.86561504 | ANI160_Varna_Outlier |
8.18328174 | I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
8.46710694 | I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
Distance to: | I3123_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II |
---|---|
4.16385639 | I1295_Malak_Preslavets |
4.28827471 | I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.51478682 | I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.88328990 | I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.96274266 | I0706_Balkans_Neolithic |
6.17085894 | ANI160_Varna_Outlier |
6.23114757 | I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
6.31201236 | ANI159_ANI181_Varna |
6.60343850 | I1109_Malak_Preslavets |
6.62733732 | I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge |
Distance to: | I3122_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II |
---|---|
3.89434205 | R4_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
4.89766271 | R104_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi |
4.91419373 | I10365_Sardinia_BA_Seulo |
5.64912383 | I1298_Balkans_Neolithic |
5.99037561 | R16_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
6.42548831 | I0046_HAL5_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5004_calBCE |
6.52166390 | R5_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
6.56332233 | I2477_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Northern_Italy |
6.61049166 | I5207_LBK_Austria |
6.85095614 | R1014_Chalcolithic_Monte_San_Biagio |
Distance to: | I4065_Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna |
---|---|
4.26324993 | I2425_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.04007936 | I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.51390968 | ANI160_Varna_Outlier |
6.09534248 | I10365_Sardinia_BA_Seulo |
6.13104396 | I1109_Malak_Preslavets |
6.19706382 | I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
6.42070090 | I1295_Malak_Preslavets |
6.97904721 | I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
7.49478485 | I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
8.03534691 | I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
Distance to: | I4064_Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna |
---|---|
1.92942997 | I0046_HAL5_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5004_calBCE |
2.84371236 | I0100_HAL4_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5032-4946_calBCE |
3.00153294 | I5207_LBK_Austria |
3.41218405 | I4168_Balkans_Neolithic |
3.43778999 | I5206_LBK_Austria |
3.96964734 | I0025_LBK1992_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
4.00296140 | I1131_Balkans_Neolithic |
4.03311294 | R2_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
4.16455280 | I5208_LBK_Austria |
4.27325403 | R10_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
Distance to: | I4063_Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna |
---|---|
3.65861996 | R4_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
4.21939569 | I0046_HAL5_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5004_calBCE |
4.75331463 | I5207_LBK_Austria |
5.11871078 | R16_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
5.81406054 | I0100_HAL4_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5032-4946_calBCE |
6.37605678 | I0025_LBK1992_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
6.39517787 | I0659_HAL2_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5079-4997_calBCE |
6.46263878 | R5_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
6.62322429 | I4167_Balkans_Neolithic |
6.64015060 | I4168_Balkans_Neolithic |
Distance to: | I4062_Sicily_MN_Stretto_Partanna |
---|---|
2.40339343 | R19_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
2.50836600 | I4168_Balkans_Neolithic |
2.58663875 | I5206_LBK_Austria |
2.72444490 | R10_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
2.76085132 | R2_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
2.79910700 | I0100_HAL4_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5032-4946_calBCE |
2.97882527 | I1131_Balkans_Neolithic |
3.12147401 | R8_Neolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
3.12800256 | I5208_LBK_Austria |
3.13150124 | I0057_HAL34_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5207-5067_calBCE |
Distance to: | I7807_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana |
---|---|
1.66952089 | I4089_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.19903110 | I4088_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
3.99597297 | I2430_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
4.93265649 | I1109_Malak_Preslavets |
5.37071690 | I2424_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.49314118 | I2431_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
5.57661187 | ANI159_ANI181_Varna |
5.81320910 | I2423_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
7.44409833 | NE1_Hungary_5230BC |
7.70971465 | I0022_LBK1976_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
Distance to: | I7805_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana |
---|---|
7.30767405 | I3879_Malak_Preslavets |
9.21722301 | I9128_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete |
10.21845879 | I10365_Sardinia_BA_Seulo |
10.69100089 | I2426_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
10.74459399 | I0025_LBK1992_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
11.08821446 | I0046_HAL5_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5004_calBCE |
11.10822668 | I0560_QLB18A_Baalberge_MN_Quedlinburg_IX_Germany_3640-3510_calBCE |
11.62089067 | R4_Chalcolithic_Grotta_Continenza |
11.69959401 | R104_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi |
11.70996157 | I5205_LBK_Austria |
Distance to: | I7800_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana |
---|---|
5.17469806 | I2111_Trypillia |
6.93037517 | HispanoRomanMaghrebiCordobaCaliphate_I7497 |
8.64827150 | I2520_Balkans_BronzeAge |
9.30288127 | I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge |
9.32493968 | Bul6_Balkans_BronzeAge |
9.34563534 | I3578_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE |
9.49149619 | LateRomanIberiaGranada_I3581 |
9.50241022 | I16163_Sardinia_IA_Anghelu_Ruju |
9.63873954 | I3582_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE |
9.68907632 | I3579_SE_Iberia_c.5-8CE |
Distance to: | I7796_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana |
---|---|
6.38157504 | I0071_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete |
6.40158574 | I9006_Bronze_Age_Mycenaean_Agia_Kyriaki_Salamis |
6.64335006 | I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete |
7.13919463 | I3709_Peloponnese_Neolithic |
7.39129894 | Kumtepe006_Anatolian |
7.54225430 | I8208_NE_Iberia_Hel_Empuries2 |
8.47769426 | I0070_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete |
8.57864208 | I2318_Peloponnese_Neolithic |
8.63081688 | I0073_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete |
9.56215980 | I0679_Krepost_Neolithic |
Distance to: | I7774_d_Sicily_EBA_Contrada_Paolina_Castellucciana |
---|---|
3.02145660 | I0056_HAL14_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5206-5052_calBCE |
3.96720304 | I4168_Balkans_Neolithic |
4.92106696 | I5205_LBK_Austria |
5.48245383 | I1109_Malak_Preslavets |
5.77051124 | I5208_LBK_Austria |
5.78651017 | R19_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
5.78877362 | R17_Neolithic_Ripabianca_di_Monterado |
6.05326358 | I0100_HAL4_LBK_EN_Halberstadt-Sonntagsfeld_Germany_5032-4946_calBCE |
6.12959216 | I0022_LBK1976_LBK_EN_Viesenhäuser_Hof_Stuttgart-Mühlhausen_Germany_5500-4800_BCE |
6.20174169 | I1131_Balkans_Neolithic |
Distance to: | I8561_Sicily_EBA_Isnello |
---|---|
5.40012963 | R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia |
5.58181870 | IronAgeCatalan_I12640 |
5.60164262 | R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia |
6.20312018 | France_BA_PIR3037AB |
6.31986550 | I1297_Malak_Preslavets |
7.12013343 | MX299_Switzerland_LN |
7.33978883 | I2215_Malak_Preslavets |
7.36342312 | ElSotilloBasqueCountry_I1977 |
7.38828126 | R851_Iron_Age_Ardea |
7.44951005 | R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima |
Distance to: | Sicilian_Beaker_I4936 |
---|---|
9.88733533 | R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia |
9.89697934 | R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica |
9.99385811 | R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima |
10.33205691 | I2110_Trypillia |
10.63891442 | I3151_Trypillia |
10.71665060 | I1295_Malak_Preslavets |
10.90533356 | I2175_Balkans_BronzeAge |
11.15414273 | R851_Iron_Age_Ardea |
11.42367717 | I0706_Balkans_Neolithic |
12.49268186 | France_BA_PIR3037AB |
Distance to: | I4930_Bronze_Age_Beaker_Sicily |
---|---|
5.09041256 | I9129_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Moni_Odigitria_Heraklion_Crete |
7.54527667 | Kumtepe006_Anatolian |
8.19122701 | I3498_Balkans_Neolithic |
8.48055423 | I0174_BAM25_Starcevo_EN_Alsónyék-Bátaszék_Mérnöki_telep_Hungary_5710-5530_calBCE |
8.59672030 | I3709_Peloponnese_Neolithic |
9.11530032 | Anatolia_N_Bar8_Barcin |
9.18082785 | I0074_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete |
9.36654686 | I9005_Bronze_Age_Minoan_Hagios_Charalambos_Cave_Lasithi_Crete |
9.45330630 | I2519_Balkans_Chalcolithic |
9.63348846 | I3708_Peloponnese_Neolithic |
So I am curios, if you can run your G25 program on these Sicilian samples and see how they can be modeled with respect to the Roman samples, most of these were already similar to those Roman samples, 14 of the 25 and most of the others seem similar to Greek/Anatolians. So seems in totality those ancient Sicilian Samples were Roman to Greek like already, some a little more towards 1, some the other, but it seems like Sicilians by 2000 BC had people that resembled the Iron Age Romans, hence the Southern Shifted Iron Age Romans are really not that surprising perhaps? (I don't think they are) and Imperial Romans, at least the 31 of 48 that in terms of distribution range from Central Italy to Malta then over to Greece, Crete, etc, is not really that surprising perhaps as well? ( I don't personally think it is).