Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

ihype02 said:
I would ask him why is there no J1 or E among Minoans or Myceneans. If he gives a good explanation for that I would take it but I probably wont get a response.
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Why would the 14% PPN in a historical population known to border and engage with that part of the world bother someone is beyond my humble understanding, but I am sure you have your compelling reasons.
 
eupator said:
Why would the 14% PPN in a historical population known to border and engage with that part of the world bother someone is beyond my humble understanding, but I am sure you have your compelling reasons.
Click to expand...

Why would it bother me? I was just making a point.

Your meds, take them.
 
ihype02 said:
Why would it bother me? I was just making a point.
Click to expand...


I am just trying to figure out the new angle of online anthro-tardism you're peddling. I know you, lot, constantly seethe about anything MENA-related when it comes to Greeks (ancients and moderns).


Your meds, take them.
Click to expand...

Projecting, much? :LOL:
 
ihype02 said:
I would ask him why is there no J1 or E among Minoans or Myceneans. If he gives a good explanation for that I would take it but I probably wont get a response.
ANFPPNCHGEHGIron Gates HG
Mycenaeans58.4–65.8%7–14%20.1–22.7%3.3–5.5%0.9–2.3%
Minoans70.9–76.7%3.9–9.5%17–19.4%0–2.3%0–0.7%

Admixture proportions (%) of ancestral components for the Mycenaeans and Minoans [235]
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Really wonder why a well known academic/Genetist from harvard will ignore a random amateur with zero credentials on his field
 
eupator said:
I am just trying to figure out the new angle of online anthro-tardism you're peddling. I know you, lot, constantly seethe about anything MENA-related when it comes to Greeks (ancients and moderns).




Projecting, much? :LOL:
Click to expand...

14% PPN ancestry keeps me awake at night. And the rest of 90% Anatolian and Caucasus is just fine with me.

I barely post anymore. And you've had multiply meltdowns. You believe that there is some conspiracy to remove MENA connection from modern Greeks run by mainland Greek Supremacists. I did not know you were being serious at first. You're not well. Take your meds.
 
ihype02 said:
14% PPN ancestry keeps me awake at night. And the rest of 90% Anatolian and Caucasus is just fine with me.
I barely post anymore. And you've had multiply meltdowns. You believe that there is some conspiracy to remove MENA connection from modern Greeks run by mainland Greek Supremacists. I did not know you were being serious at first. You're not well. Take your meds.
Click to expand...
Stop crying and accept the fact that you're just an amateur with zero credentials.
Nobody cares about your nationalist delerium.
 
Omino said:
Stop crying and accept the fact that you're just an amateur with zero credentials.
Nobody cares about your nationalist delerium.
Click to expand...
All humanity has roots in Africa, why would a 10% contribution in Mycenaeans or Minoans, from a certain region in cave times (10,000 years ago) bother me?
If my opinion is wrong I could care less.
 
ihype02 said:
All humanity has roots in Africa, why would a 10% contribution in Mycenaeans or Minoans, from a certain region in cave times (10,000 years ago) bother me?
If my opinion is wrong I could care less.
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Because places likely Kenya is right next to Aegean 🤦
Nobody cares about your opinion dude, accept the fact you're just an Amateur and do something about your delerium
 
The Lazaridis version that lacked PPN component came in 2017 not 1917, only 6 years ago. All I said was that I support his older version more because that's why Y-DNA indicates. End of discussion. There is no deep agenda behind this. Wrong or right, move on.

Omino said:
Because places likely Kenya is right next to Aegean ������
Nobody cares about your opinion dude, accept the fact you're just an Amateur and do something about your delerium
Click to expand...

Read again what I wrote. You're getting close.
 
ihype02 said:
The Lazaridis version that lacked PPN component came in 2017 not 1917, only 6 years ago. All I said was that I support his older version more because that's why Y-DNA indicates. End of discussion. There is no deep agenda behind this. Wrong or right, move on.



Read again what I wrote. You're getting close.
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1.You can't accept that you're Just an Amateur with Zero credentials right?
2.Your lack of understanding about geography is both astonishing and hilarious

Accept reality and move on my dear
 
ihype02 said:
I barely post anymore. And you've had multiply meltdowns. You believe that there is some conspiracy to remove MENA connection from modern Greeks run by mainland Greek Supremacists. I did not know you were being serious at first. You're not well. Take your meds.
Click to expand...

Meltdowns? You mean like those in the countless Albanian threads (e.g. latest drama: E-V13) that end up being locked and several of its participants banned due to their inability to control their emotions?

Funny projections, mate.

:LOL:
 
Omino said:
1.You can't accept that you're Just an Amateur with Zero credentials right?
2.Your lack of understanding about geography is both astonishing and hilarious

Accept reality and move on my dear
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1.) I am well aware that I am a hobbyist and an amateur.
2.) How does my argument imply that I am:
European/Nordic/Mainland Greek (or whatever else) supremacist - when the older version that I believe more shows Ancient Greeks being almost entirely descended from Anatolian and Caucasus related people.
3.) What does my argument about PPN ancestry has to do with nationalism? How does it even relate to it?
4.) Even if I was biased towards MENA people why should I have antipathy towards the idea of Ancient Greeks having PPN ancestry 10,000 years ago when 40,000 or 50,000 years ago our ancestors were Africans?
 
Fwiw, and I have no dog in this particular fight, I think the Reich Lab is barking up the wrong tree in trying to prove that PPN was in every single group of West Asians, including most Europeans.

Whatever PPN was in the Mycenaeans probably came with the Anatolian farmers, and even if they were later enriched with it through trade with Crete which might then have spread northwards, to do an analysis with two groups which have so much overlap risks coming up with an incorrect result.

I also concur that such a conclusion contradicts the yDna evidence.

I don't know why the Reich Lab has abandoned using it to track migrations, but I think it's a mistake. That's its greatest utility.
 
Angela said:
Fwiw, and I have no dog in this particular fight, I think the Reich Lab is barking up the wrong tree in trying to prove that PPN was in every single group of West Asians, including most Europeans.

Whatever PPN was in the Mycenaeans probably came with the Anatolian farmers, and even if they were later enriched with it through trade with Crete which might then have spread northwards, to do an analysis with two groups which have so much overlap risks coming up with an incorrect result.

I also concur that such a conclusion contradicts the yDna evidence.

I don't know why the Reich Lab has abandoned using it to track migrations, but I think it's a mistake. That's its greatest utility.
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Agree. ihype02 isn't so wrong and I regret some oppositions would have to turn into scold and contemption the most of the time. And I'm tired with all these "racist" and "nationalist" or "supremacist" or ...
That said, good evening to pacific and relaxed people, and even to the others. ATW my little taste of whisky was good today.
 
Angela said:
Fwiw, and I have no dog in this particular fight, I think the Reich Lab is barking up the wrong tree in trying to prove that PPN was in every single group of West Asians, including most Europeans.

Whatever PPN was in the Mycenaeans probably came with the Anatolian farmers, and even if they were later enriched with it through trade with Crete which might then have spread northwards, to do an analysis with two groups which have so much overlap risks coming up with an incorrect result.

I also concur that such a conclusion contradicts the yDna evidence.

I don't know why the Reich Lab has abandoned using it to track migrations, but I think it's a mistake. That's its greatest utility.
Click to expand...

Also using both PPN and ANF together shows at most 2.7% Steppe ancestry in Minoans which is absurd given the geography and timing. And also only 3.3% Steppe at the lowest count in Mycenaeans. If we take the maximum steppe ancestry in Minoans and the minimum in Mycenaeans (from the model) as the default then it would imply that most steppe ancestry in Mycenaeans came before the Greek language or before the known steppe related migrations occurred. (2.7% -> 3.3%)

The steppe ancestry in Minoans should stand at zero.
 
Hmmmm...J1c seems to have mostly migrated to Europe through the northern route. If anybody looks at the geography and topography of Anatolia, one can see that there are two easy routes to migrate to Greece/Europe: the southern coastal route and the northern coastal route. The rest of Anatolia is pretty mountainous and while not impossible to traverse, it is much more difficult. I am guessing that the ANF component to Crete came through the southern route. Do we have J1c samples throughout the southern route? Now the other question one has to ask is how many Minoan samples do we have. The third question to ask is maybe the tribes that made it to Crete did not include any J1c folks. Maybe they got easily seasick and thus elected to stay in Anatolia even if they made it to southwestern Anatolia. Do we have any J1c in any of the other Aegean islands from the same time period? Do we have any J1c in LBA or IA Mainland Greece? Should we not wait for more samples?
Now if there is documented overlap between PPN and ANF then it is a problem in the models at least in the amateur modeling tools. Do we know if the problem also shows in the IBD based models as well?
 
ihype02 said:
Also using both PPN and ANF together shows at most 2.7% Steppe ancestry in Minoans which is absurd given the geography and timing. And also only 3.3% Steppe at the lowest count in Mycenaeans. If we take the maximum steppe ancestry in Minoans and the minimum in Mycenaeans (from the model) as the default then it would imply that most steppe ancestry in Mycenaeans came before the Greek language or before the known steppe related migrations occurred. (2.7% -> 3.3%)

The steppe ancestry in Minoans should stand at zero.
Click to expand...


Banter aside, I don't understand what the big deal is, mate.


Web-capture-28-8-2022-221852.jpg



The highest EHG seems to be around 9% which would put the sample around 18%ish "Steppe" (extrapolation to Yamnaya_Samara breakdown) and the lowest 0, averaging around 4%ish (or 8% Steppe).

That is similar to the previous study, the only difference with this new revision is that the eastern ancestry breakdown is further analysed between Anatolia, PPN, and CHG, and the addition of local HG (Serbia Irongates) that would otherwise inflate the EHG (while not being part of the EHG package of Samara).

Much ado for nothing?
 
These are the new samples from Greece introduced in the study, for reference, with their haplos:

Code: 
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I14916[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Minoan_Zakros_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Crete, Zakros, Karaviadaina[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]H[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I6420_d[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Lokris_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Fthiotis, Lokris, Proskynas[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]J[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]..[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I15582[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Attica_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Attica, Kolikrepi-Spata[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]T2c1+146[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13519_d[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]..[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I14872[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Attica_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Attica, Kolikrepi-Spata[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]HV[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I15571[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Attica_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Attica, Kolikrepi-Spata[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]HV0a[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I16709[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Attica_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Attica, Kolikrepi-Spata[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]J-Y14434[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]H5[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13516[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]J1c1[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13510[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]G-P287[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]H7[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13517_d[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]G-Z6494[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]..[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I19366[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]J1c+16261[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13578[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]K1a2[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13428[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]G-L30[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]H2[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13579[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]J-Y14434[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]W1[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13577[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]G-Z7016[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]T2c1d1[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13536_d[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]..[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13531[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]U3b[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13433[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]U3b1[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13580[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]G-P287[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]K2b[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13514[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]K1c1[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13513_d[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_BA_Mycenaean_lc[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]U[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (sex unknown)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]..[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13532[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]U3b1b[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13518[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]R-PF7563[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]N1a1a1a3[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I13506_d[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA_father.or.son.I13518[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]R-M269[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]..[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I19364[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]R-M269[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]X[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I19368[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Palace_of_Nestor_EIA[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Pylos, Palace of Nestor[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]F[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]n/a  (female)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]U8b1a[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I17959[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Kastrouli_Anc[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]J[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]J1c[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I17960[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Anc_lc[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]..[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]J1[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I17962[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Kastrouli_Anc[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Kastrouli (Desfina, Phokis, near Delphi)[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]T-S27463[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]U8b1b[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I7833[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]GRC_Marathon_Rom[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Vranas Marathon[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]Greece[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]M[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]T-CTS3767[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[TD="align: left"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]H[/COLOR][/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
The PF7563 should be the PIE vectors in the Mycenean civ, I had a quick look at the Albanian and Armenian projects over at FTDNA, and they both have quite a few members carrying PF7562/3, further strengthening the Albanian/Armenian/Greek linguistic branch hypothesis.
 
eupator said:
Banter aside, I don't understand what the big deal is, mate.
Web-capture-28-8-2022-221852.jpg

The highest EHG seems to be around 9% which would put the sample around 18%ish "Steppe" (extrapolation to Yamnaya_Samara breakdown) and the lowest 0, averaging around 4%ish (or 8% Steppe).
That is similar to the previous study, the only difference with this new revision is that the eastern ancestry breakdown is further analysed between Anatolia, PPN, and CHG, and the addition of local HG (Serbia Irongates) that would otherwise inflate the EHG (while not being part of the EHG package of Samara).
Much ado for nothing?
Click to expand...
This part:
If we take the maximum steppe ancestry in Minoans and the minimum in Mycenaeans (from the model) as the default then it would imply that most steppe ancestry in Mycenaeans came before the Greek language or before the known steppe related migrations occurred. (2.7% -> 3.3%)
 
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