Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

"The amount ofsteppe ancestry is about ~13% when the Early/Middle Bronze Age group(“Yamnya/Afnasievo/Poltavka-related”) is used as a source (Steppe_EMBA), which is in harmonywith our finding of ~7% EHG ancestry in Mycenaeans, as this group has about half of its ancestryfrom the EHG1,8,16.

Correct

the estimation of Triantafilides of Auth was 10% bronze age in all Greece,
it means 10% of what in the forum we call IE,
but has 59% post glacial and 20% Neolithic Anatolian
THAT CLEAR MEANS THAT GREEK LANGUAGE as IE MIGHT COME FROM THE 10 % of Bronze age
But from the rest % of the other groups

many times I said that Kurgan etc and other IE like steppe theories,
might not fit in Greece,

so is it time to reconsider the Farmers possibility of IE speakers?

anyway

the results which were expected
show many things

one of this is that Myceneans (10%) probably were a warriors class, that become elite by protecting people
since in many Neolithic we do not even found fortifications
 
Does this article also prove the "Dorian Invasion" in a sense?


Dorian Invasion is an inner ddevastation on NW Greeks to S Greeks
and is much much younger for at least 1500 years from the bellow
Maybe you reffering to the Mycenean descent that came from Istros (Δουναβης)
 
Interesting for me is Villabruna which marks +- 0 in a sample of Minoans
that certifies the connection of the area with Aegean,
as some archaiological founds I mention in previous posts,
 
The usual suspects seem to be trying to spread disinformation.

From the paper:

"The elite Mycenaean individual from the 'royal' tomb at Peristeria in the western Peloponnese did not differ genetically from the other three Mycenaean individuals buried in common graves."

So, no, the "royal" or otherwise elite Mycenaeans were not any different from the "peasants" in terms of "steppe" ancestry.

When are these people going to give it a rest? It's over.

Other stupidity from another usual suspect. No, neither the Mycenaeans nor the Minoans had a "ton" of CHG/Iran type autosomal ancestry, although they did have a lot of J2a, at least based on this sample. They're majority Anatolian Neolithic.

Real the paper or at least the excerpts printed here, people.

For yet another usual suspect, we already have a pretty good idea from the Greek paper how much "Slavic" admixture there is in modern Greeks, and it's on a north/south cline. People from the Peloponnese have less than people from Thessaly. And no, it's not because of any mythical huge population movement from Sicily to the Peloponnese, for which I have yet to see any source whatsoever other than the fevered brains of agenda driven ****** or one ***** and several alter-egos.:) Now we have ancient Mycenaeans clustering with Sicilians, Mycenaeans from thousands of years before that bogus large migration. When are people going to stop being so gullible when reading posts from certain people?

If people want to get a handle on "Slavic" admixture one way to go is to figure out "Slavic" R1a and what used to be called I2a-Din, and estimate downwards from there as there was probably some male bias to the immigration.
 
Indeed. The Mycenaeans seem to be clustering with Sicilians. Ashkenazi too, so I wonder if it's possible that the Philistines will turn out to be pretty close to Mycenaneans, and the Philistines started the change we see in Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.

Nah, Philistines will cluster with ancient Egyptians and Canaanites.
 
Using D-stats here's what modern mainland Greeks get...

Anatolia Neolithic-58%
CHG/Iran Neo-21%
EHG-18%
WHG-3%

Here's what Mycenaean get.

Anatolia Neolithic-80%
EHG-7%
Iran Neo-14%

And what Minoans get.
Anatolia Neolithic-86%
Iran Neo-14%

But notice when Levant_N is added to the model Minoan's Iran Neo/CHG score goes way up.
Anatolia Neolithic-62%
CHG-32%
Levant Neolithic-6%
 
Cycladic, Minoan, and Mycenaean cultures in the Bronze Age:
60503c028aa9cce6bc7081aa4a77863b.jpg




Palace at Knossos:

Minoan_Knossos_Palace_Reconstruction_1.jpg


Bull-leaping-fresco-taurokathapsia-Knossos-family-guided-tour-kids-love-greece-Crete-Greek-mythology-family-vacation-package-activities-for-families-4.jpg


Look familiar? She's holding prayer beads:
tumblr_oefsvnhAke1rmd611o1_500.jpg


Lady of Mycenae:
c1641a61f8a46c3c1f38a143a1358260.jpg
 
Angela i really enjoy your posts so it bothers me that i cant open these attachments : /

Oh, no...Were you signed in? Can you try it one more time? It works for me.

Thank-you, btw. Nice of you to say.
 
Big news. Does the northern Iran/Caucus/Steppe mix referenced get explained by Kura Axes seed population?

Sent from my XT1080 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

Some people had speculated that Kura Araxes was tied to J1, but the J1 here in Anatolia doesn't plot near our ancient Kura Araxes samples. Plus, of course, the samples were not J1 Someone check me but I don't think any of these new Anatolian samples do...

@Fire-Haired,

Huh? The Philistines were intrusive to Canaan, and Egypt for that matter. Have you forgotten the ancient Egyptian dna paper?


Just a general comment: I've never seen so much special pleading in my life. People, given what the Bronze Age looked like in the Balkans no one should have been expecting a lot of "steppe" in the Mycenaeans. Now, we're going to base everything from one woman in late Minoan Crete who could have arrived from anywhere, but not look at a 'royal' male? Really? I guess if you don't fall in line with the interpretation you don't get to post either.

Even if the admixture came through the Balkans, rather than from the region around Armenia, we're talking about 13% "steppe", 8% EHG. Big whoops.

I wouldn't have thought that was enough for language change but I guess it is.

Even the title of the thread on Eurogenes is misinformation. The Minoans can be modeled as about 80% Anatolian Neolithic. The Mycenaeans have about 13% "steppe" ancestry. Again, big whoops. Do people think nobody reads the Supplementary material?
 
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Cycladic, Minoan, and Mycenaean cultures in the Bronze Age:
60503c028aa9cce6bc7081aa4a77863b.jpg




Palace at Knossos:

Minoan_Knossos_Palace_Reconstruction_1.jpg


Bull-leaping-fresco-taurokathapsia-Knossos-family-guided-tour-kids-love-greece-Crete-Greek-mythology-family-vacation-package-activities-for-families-4.jpg


Look familiar? She's holding prayer beads:
tumblr_oefsvnhAke1rmd611o1_500.jpg


Lady of Mycenae:
c1641a61f8a46c3c1f38a143a1358260.jpg

For the record I can see all of these, just the next comment with the 2 attachments I can't
 
For the record I can see all of these, just the next comment with the 2 attachments I can't

This is the important one. It's from the prior Lazaridis et al paper-2016:

311pgrq.jpg
 
Some people had speculated that Kura Araxes was tied to J1, but the J1 here in Anatolia doesn't plot near our ancient Kura Araxes samples. Plus, of course, the samples were not J1 Someone check me but I don't think any of these new Anatolian samples do...

@Fire-Haired,

Huh? The Philistines were intrusive to Canaan, and Egypt for that matter. Have you forgotten the ancient Egyptian dna paper?


Just a general comment: I've never seen so much special pleading in my life. People, given what the Bronze Age looked like in the Balkans no one should have been expecting a lot of "steppe" in the Mycenaeans. Now, we're going to base everything from one woman in late Minoan Crete who could have arrived from anywhere, but not look at a 'royal' male? Really? I guess if you don't fall in line with the interpretation you don't get to post either.

Even if the admixture came through the Balkans, rather than from the region around Armenia, we're talking about 13% "steppe", 8% EHG. Big whoops.

I wouldn't have thought that was enough for language change but I guess it is.

Even the title of the thread on Eurogenes is misinformation. The Minoans can be modeled as about 80% Neolithic. Do people think nobody reads the Supplementary material?

Ed. Good lord, now people know what the Dorians were like? Where is the ancient dna sample that tells us that they were more "steppe like"? When are people going to learn to let the data speak and stop trying to define everything in terms of dubious agendas? Maybe, and maybe not. The Dorians settled "SPARTA", people, you know, where the Peloponnesians are, the people who are so close to the Sicilians?

Also, for the umpteenth time, read the supplement, and don't pay any attention to posts from discredited people. There wasn't much "Levantine" Neolithic in the Myceneneans, or even the Minoans. The authors found 2-3%, which would be additional on top of what is in Anatolian Neolithic already, so, no, Sicilians are not, because they plot near Mycenaeans, a proxy for "East Mediterranean" populations if by that is meant populations from the area which is today Syria, Palestine and Israel, as the usual suspect is always trying to assert. Nice try but no cigar. Someone who loves PCAs suddenly can't tell how far the Mycenaeans are from Levant Bronze Age? Please....
 
The aristocratic sample was 30% Steppe (while commoners only few % Steppe):

hgGmGHl.png


Modern continental Greeks have a lot more of Steppe than those Mycenaean continental commoners, while modern Cretans have much less of Steppe than that Post-Minoan aristocratic woman from Crete.
 
The aristocratic sample was 30% Steppe, while commoners only few % Steppe:

hgGmGHl.png


Modern continental Greeks have a lot more of Steppe than those Mycenaean continental commoners, while modern Cretans have much less of Steppe than that Post-Minoan aristocratic woman from Crete.

This leads us to the Greek Nationalist's Dilemma... : :grin:

Yeah? Well, the royal Mycenaean male is just like commoner males, same minute amount of steppe, as directly from the paper. Did you miss that part or you hoped everyone else did?

The "elite" female from very late Minoan times could have had ancestry from a far off place. We just don't know, but it was quite common to bring wives from far away groups.

What high steppe in Greeks? Look carefully at the "steppe" in Greeks, and mainland Thessaly Greeks at that. Who are you trying to kid?
Haak-et-al-2015-Figure-3-Admixture-Proportions-in-Modern-DNA-With-Linguistic-and-Historical-Origins-Added.png


You can't spread misinformation here, do you understand?

Keep it up with the provocative posts ******** other ethnicities and you'll get another infraction. Are we clear?
 
Yeah? Well, the royal Mycenaean male is just like commoner males, same minute amount of steppe, as directly from the paper. Did you miss that part or you hope everyone else did?

Evo Morales is just like commoner Quechuas. But the average landowner in Bolivia is about 30% European, while the average peasant in Bolivia is only about 5% European. However, thanks to social mobility their president is a Quechua peasant with less than 5% European. Some people become elites thanks to their merits, not blood.

I think that the situation in Mycenaean Greece could be similar to this in modern Bolivia (with commoners being "almost pure Pelasgians", while aristocracy being on average more Steppe-admixed):

 
Fire haired, can you do a d stat on south italians?
 

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