Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

[Jovialis]

Don't compare Kim Jung Un with Alexander, please.

Not my intention, I meant more to compare the supernatural-like lionization, that is prevalent among many leaders.

 

[IronSide]

Not my intention, I meant more to compare the supernatural-like lionization, that is prevalent among many leaders.

It's ok, I was joking.

If that was propaganda, then how can we be sure which physical description of his is authentic and which, as you say, is just lionization?

 

[Jovialis]

It's ok, I was joking.

If that was propaganda, then how can we be sure which physical description of his is authentic and which, as you say, is just lionization?

We can't be 100% sure based on those conflicting historical sources. I think he could have been either of the two I posted, and probably both depending on sun exposure.

But no human naturally omits a fragrance, so I would be confident in calling that lionization.

 

[Ralphie Boy]

[TABLE="class: cms_table"]
[TR]
[TD]"This isn't so. For 2000 years there have been numerous migrations and invasions.

This Ottoman success paved the way for Gazi Hüseyin Pasha, the local commander, to conquer the eastern half of the island, except for the fortress of Siteia. The Venetians and the local population suffered some grievous losses: it is estimated that by 1648, almost 40% of the Cretan population had perished of disease or warfare, and in 1677, the island's pre-war population of ca. 260,000 had dropped to about 80,000."
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Cretan males have plenty of haplogroup J2a. Cretans are relatively genetically close to Mycenaeans in this study. Another study found ancient Cretans of a certain region to be genetically very close to modern Cretans from that region. So the population reduction does not mean Greeks were totally or nearly totally replaced, like the Fallmerayer types say. This study and other studies, as well as phenotypes posted here, are bad news for them.

There appears to be genetic continuity going back a long time. Of course there was admixture, plenty of it, after all those centuries. But new people helped keep Hellenism alive, as so many became Greek and provided much-needed manpower.

 

[D.L.M]

I understand. But my question would be is the similarity between Cretans and Mycenaeans higher than other J2a carriers? Or is it simply based on halpogroup?

 

[Sile]

This isn't so. For 2000 years there have been numerous migrations and invasions.

This Ottoman success paved the way for Gazi Hüseyin Pasha, the local commander, to conquer the eastern half of the island, except for the fortress of Siteia. The Venetians and the local population suffered some grievous losses: it is estimated that by 1648, almost 40% of the Cretan population had perished of disease or warfare, and in 1677, the island's pre-war population of ca. 260,000 had dropped to about 80,000.

The venetians would have contributed their genetic markers on crete since one seventh of the population in 1211 was Venetian


1211 - 50000 cretans and 10000 venetians

 

[Ralphie Boy]

I understand. But my question would be is the similarity between Cretans and Mycenaeans higher than other J2a carriers? Or is it simply based on halpogroup?

It might be because there is more J2a in Crete than in mainland Greece, and therefore more people similar to Mycenaeans.

Greeks from Aegean islands should also be closer to Mycenaeans than mainland Greeks, who as we see have a northward pull due to all the admixture.

There is so much more for us to learn.

 

[Yetos]

Wasnt he blonde?

Νο he was Ξανθιζειν,
means too light brown

 

[Dianatomia]

The venetians would have contributed their genetic markers on crete since one seventh of the population in 1211 was Venetian


1211 - 50000 cretans and 10000 venetians

This particular text says that when the island regained a population of 200000, as many as 10.000 Venetians settlers arrived. And what happened then. Did they intermarry? What happened when Crete was no longer part of the Venetian Empire? Did the Venetians stay? Or did they leave? Did Venetians start speaking Greek? Did they convert to Orthodox Christianity? It is well known that, at least in that era, the Venetians and Cretans could not get along as the Cretans despised the Latins. But surely, the Venetians have left something in Crete.

 

[D.L.M]

How did the population rose from 50,000 to 200,000? Sile, do you have the full text?

 

[Sile]

How did the population rose from 50,000 to 200,000? Sile, do you have the full text?

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...#v=onepage&q=crete population in 1204&f=false

 

[Sile]

This particular text says that when the island regained a population of 200000, as many as 10.000 Venetians settlers arrived. And what happened then. Did they intermarry? What happened when Crete was no longer part of the Venetian Empire? Did the Venetians stay? Or did they leave? Did Venetians start speaking Greek? Did they convert to Orthodox Christianity? It is well known that, at least in that era, the Venetians and Cretans could not get along as the Cretans despised the Latins. But surely, the Venetians have left something in Crete.

The venetians stayed from 1211 to 1668

Why would you want ot speak Greek? ..............the Greek would have learnt venetian

Conversion of religion was not of interest by venice, being a secular nation............they where asked or bribed by the pope to force christianity, but venice did what they wanted which is why the pope excommunicated venice at least 10 times in its history

when venice surrendered crete to the ottomans around 1668, the cretans where asked if they wanted to leave crete and be settled in the venetian ionion islands , many did go

 

[Yetos]

@ Sile

PAX KALLERGI or Pax Καλλεργη
the 1rst peace pact among Cretans and Venice
the react of Pope Clement 5th
''nephariaw pactiones cum ilo Groeco''
he wanted Latin Catholic in greek speaking areas
in difference with the directive of Pope Inocentios 3rd of 1206
who adviced for Greek Catholic in areas were only Greek were Spoken
(Αria καλαμων Κρητης)
and both Latin and Greek where 2 langiages were spoken



Morossini = Μαυρογενης
the other pact

etc,

 

[Sile]

@ Sile

PAX KALLERGI or Pax Καλλεργη
the 1rst peace pact among Cretans and Venice
the react of Pope Clement 5th
''[FONT=&]nephariaw pactiones cum ilo Groeco''
he wanted Latin Catholic in greek speaking areas
[/FONT]in difference with the directive of Pope Inocentios 3rd of 1206
who adviced for Greek Catholic in areas were only Greek were Spoken
(Αria καλαμων Κρητης)
and both Latin and Greek where 2 langiages were spoken



Morossini = Μαυρογενης
the other pact

etc,

the greeks and venetians would have spoken to each other in Latin..............there was no italian language at 1211 , but their where regional italian languages. ..........but in italy and in most old roman lands , the nobility, administration and traders would communicate in latin

Yes, the pope always wanted the italian states to push for catholic.............sometimes it was and sometimes it was ignored.................

 

[bicicleur 2]

X^ηπαναγης

Αλεξανδρος ο Μεγας
Αlexandros

maybe Παριος

what about Kokkotas?

excuse me if I am ignorant and blunt
I've known just a few Greek people
some were genuine Greeks from Thesaloniki
others were gypsies from Ano Liosia, north of Athens

I'd classify these faces (the 1st and the last) more as gypsies then Greek
and I think many other ignorant Belgian people would do the same

 

[Sakattack]

excuse me if I am ignorant and blunt
I've known just a few Greek people
some were genuine Greeks from Thesaloniki
others were gypsies from Ano Liosia, north of Athens

I'd classify these faces (the 1st and the last) more as gypsies then Greek
and I think many other ignorant Belgian people would do the same

Χατζηπαναγής (Chatzipanagis), the former footballer of the first picture, was born in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, from GreekCypriot political refugees from Amochostos. So, genetically he is a GreekCypriot and to be honest, he looks so. He doesn't look Gypsy to me.

The last pic, is Stamatis Kokotas, a famous old singer, don't know he's origin, was born in Athens.

Sent from my Robin using Tapatalk

 

[Yetos]

excuse me if I am ignorant and blunt
I've known just a few Greek people
some were genuine Greeks from Thesaloniki
others were gypsies from Ano Liosia, north of Athens

I'd classify these faces (the 1st and the last) more as gypsies then Greek
and I think many other ignorant Belgian people would do the same

the last one is a question,
I do not know if the hair make it simmilar or it is nearby-looking with reconstructed Mycenean,
the first one is a famous footballer and his look is common in many parts of Greece.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasilis_Hatzipanagis

Ammochostos was build By Makedonian Ptolemaians.

Gypsies are 2 major races
at least was in 1970-80s in Greece
The Rugari and the Palko
majority of Roma are round face, especially the Palko ones,
yet there is a look whith narrow and thin nose in Rugari,
today Gypsies can look everything you can imagine,
after 90's and open borders of EU they traveled and mixed,

Roma are very strange population.

these are

 

[Milan.M]

This are paintings by Macedonians themselves

 

[Milan.M]

Mosaics

 

[Milan.M]

^^ .........