Genomic Diversity in Italy

[Angela]

Appennino Parmense:

The other side of the Appennines: my mother's town...

We get people like this too:

I think she's unmistakeably Italian looking...Lady With An Ermine type (Da Vinci)

One of my mentors, completely Lunigianese, Loris Iacopo Bonomi

Absolutely smashing looking as a younger man:

https://www.facebook.com/Fondazione...86435/1570386486397821/?type=3&is_lookaside=1

A blonde Calabrese-distantly related to my husband...he might as well be wearing the map of Italy on his face...

Also Calabrian...

I take it back about "Terence Smith". He did look Northern Italian in his younger years. Only with age did the German really come out, imo.

 

[Regio X]

Yes, a little bit more, but I still wouldn't have looked at him then, and said, oh yes, I definitely see the Italian in him, even with the dark Roman like hair. In old age it's the eyes, but throughout his life it's the robustness of the jaw and width of his face and maybe the not very Italian nose. Not that those features are unknown in Northern Italy; they're all over my paternal family, and they become more obvious in old age.

People do change as they age. Part of the reason I've always watched my weight is that I always had this fear that if I got heavy my face would go round or really square (yes, unfortunately I'm that vain) and I'd wind up looking like a lot of the women in my father's family, like his first cousin. We share a similar face shape, forehead, squarish jaw line, chin. My young cousin has them too, along with the long neck that runs in that part of the family. By no means did I get the more oval face of my mother, although my face is longer than that of my father's cousin. My nonna used to say I got my mother's features in her husband's face, i.e. the one I didn't like. Maybe that had something to do with not liking that look. In old age his face looked like Razzano's. In fact, quite a few of my father's male cousins looked like Razzano. OK on a man, but not my preference in a woman.

Yes, I've always been a very vain woman. It's another one of my character flaws. The nuns would tell me that when they'd see me looking in mirrors as I passed and adjusting my hair or whatever.

Looking again to the first picture I posted, I notice a "Tony Curtis aura" in Girotti, je je, but I still see more Italy than Germany.

Being vain is absolutely common. You should not blame yourself.
Some people say I'm more similar to my father than to my mother, but I'm not sure. Perhaps a bit more similar to her in profile and to him in the front.
One thing is funny is that some people may think I'm kind of a copy of one parent, but only till they know the other parent. ah ah

Nice photos. The "Da Vinci" woman represents well one of the types of beauty we see in Italy.

What about Bellucci's? Wow!

In this picture specifically she resembles a bit Olivia Hussey; this is a compliment for "Juliet".

Btw, Zeffirelli is perhaps another example. Italian looking when younger, and not that much after some age.
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2019/jun/15/franco-zeffirelli-obituary

Am I wrong or the last Calabrian you posted has a "Roman aura"?

 

[Angela]

Looking again to the first picture I posted, I notice a "Tony Curtis aura" in Girotti, je je, but I still see more Italy than Germany.

Being vain is absolutely common. You should not blame yourself.
Some people say I'm more similar to my father than to my mother, but I'm not sure. Perhaps a bit more similar to her in profile and to him in the front.
One thing is funny is that some people may think I'm kind of a copy of one parent, but only till they know the other parent. ah ah

Nice photos. The "Da Vinci" woman represents well one of the types of beauty we see in Italy.

What about Bellucci's? Wow!

In this picture specifically she resembles a bit Olivia Hussey; this is a compliment for "Juliet".

Btw, Zeffirelli is perhaps another example. Italian looking when younger, and not that much after some age.
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2019/jun/15/franco-zeffirelli-obituary

Am I wrong or the last Calabrian you posted has a "Roman aura"?

Yes, it's true about Zeffirelli. Part of it may be the gaining of weight and the "sagging" of the flesh in the face as people age, which obscures the bone structure, added to the fact that if you don't dye your hair and it goes grey or you cover the grey with a lighter pigment, you can superficially look very different. That's what happened with Katia, for example, and why she suddenly looked very Scandinavian.

I don't know about Bertolucci. It might have gone a bit in the other direction with him; a bit more ambiguous as a young man, but progressively more North Italian as he got older.

De Niro looks northern Italian here too.

To me, Francesco de Gregori was unmistakably central North Italian in youth, but maybe a bit more ambiguous as he got older.

Then there's Zucchero, whom no non-Italian I've ever met thinks looks Italian, but if you've grown up in Italy is unremarkable, at least if you're talking about from Toscana north.

Then there's Liguria's poet laureate:

That's exactly what happens in families. When I was a child, particularly, what with the lighter hair and the really white skin, and that face shape, many in my father's family would swear I looked liked my sainted Aunt Ida, who died in childbirth when she was about twenty. She had been my nonna's favorite child, and I think nonna thought I was like her. My mother's family were unanimous in thinking I looked like my mother and my Ligurian grandfather. I think reality was, as I said, my mother's features in my father's family's face. I looked so much like her when young that on a visit to my family the summer I was sixteen, as I was walking down the village street, a man who had emigrated twenty years before to South America stopped dead on the street and said, my God, you have to be ^^^^^^^ daughter. As I got older and the facial bone structure was more prominent it wasn't as obvious.


I think both of the Calabresi look like ancient Romans, depending on the period: the blonde perhaps of the Republic going into the Augustine era and Fabio Ceravolo of the heart of the Imperial period.

 

[Regio X]

Yes, it's true about Zeffirelli. Part of it may be the gaining of weight and the "sagging" of the flesh in the face as people age, which obscures the bone structure, added to the fact that if you don't dye your hair and it goes grey or you cover the grey with a lighter pigment, you can superficially look very different. That's what happened with Katia, for example, and why she suddenly looked very Scandinavian.

I don't know about Bertolucci. It might have gone a bit in the other direction with him; a bit more ambiguous as a young man, but progressively more North Italian as he got older.

De Niro looks northern Italian here too.

To me, Francesco de Gregori was unmistakably central North Italian in youth, but maybe a bit more ambiguous as he got older.

Then there's Zucchero, whom no non-Italian I've ever met thinks looks Italian, but if you've grown up in Italy is unremarkable, at least if you're talking about from Toscana north.

Then there's Liguria's poet laureate:

That's exactly what happens in families. When I was a child, particularly, what with the lighter hair and the really white skin, and that face shape, many in my father's family would swear I looked liked my sainted Aunt Ida, who died in childbirth when she was about twenty. She had been my nonna's favorite child, and I think nonna thought I was like her. My mother's family were unanimous in thinking I looked like my mother and my Ligurian grandfather. I think reality was, as I said, my mother's features in my father's family's face. I looked so much like her when young that on a visit to my family the summer I was sixteen, as I was walking down the village street, a man who had emigrated twenty years before to South America stopped dead on the street and said, my God, you have to be ^^^^^^^ daughter. As I got older and the facial bone structure was more prominent it wasn't as obvious.


I think both of the Calabresi look like ancient Romans, depending on the period: the blonde perhaps of the Republic going into the Augustine era and Fabio Ceravolo of the heart of the Imperial period.

I notice I changed a bit already, even not being that old.
What I also noticed is that pictures may "distort" actual appearances, tending to make them "better", "worst" or simply different, depending on the person. I saw it in myself and in many other people. Imo, videos generally capture better one's real appearance. I tend to "not see myself" in pictures (comparing them with the guy in front of the mirror, ah ah), but I do in videos.
My point is that some of these people could look significantly different in person, and the ancestry would possibly become more "evident".

As for that guy who "recognized" you, something similar happened to me more than once. One example: I was in the theater (of a big city) and someone pointed to me and said: you are the brother of "A". je je It also happened when I was playing soccer. A guy looked to me, and looked, and kept looking... I thought "damn, he must be gay'. lol No offense. It's just that I'm not. But at the end he came and asked: are you a brother of "B"? Then I understood why he was looking so much.
But in our case I must say that our similarities might have been more evident to local people, since most of them are different from us "ethnically". Preserving due proportions, it's like when we see, say, Japanese, and think they're all the same. ah ah

Yes. When I referred to Romans, I meant ancient Romans. Especially the second one. The first one called my atention by his slight resemblance to a guy that acted in a movie I recently watched.

 

[Angela]

Good grief! This picture just came up of the young Zucchero (Fornaciari) of Reggio Emilia.

That face shape and bone structure are not too different from mine (the nose is different, and although my chin is very "round" it doesn't project like that, thank God), and look how he wound up! Now I'm good and frightened. That's why weight control and absolutely no alcohol, drugs, or cigarettes are essential. Also, thank God for my mother's genes. She had practically no wrinkles till the day she died, and her skin was as taut and firm as that of women twenty years younger. My father's family aged much more quickly and badly. It's definitely about the structure of the skin. They also had to watch their weight. My father got quite portly, started looking a bit like the old Jack Nicholson, until my mother took matters in hand and slashed his calorie intake by about a half.

In this one I don't think foreigners would ever suspect he's Italian.

 

[Angela]

@Regio

Imo, it's hit or miss about both photos and film versus correspondence to what people look like in real life, I think.

My first job out of university was as an editorial assistant at a magazine. They promised me I'd work on the fiction or political articles, but because someone left unexpectedly they stuck me with fashion, although they promised to switch me over relatively soon. I couldn't BEAR it and lasted only six months. You cannot find more self-absorbed, superficial people in any other profession, even acting. I was astounded at how downright "plain" most of the models turned out to be in real life. You wouldn't have given them a second look in real life. At the same time, someone relatively attractive can take terrible pictures. I think regularity of feature is what looks attractive in photos.

Film, likewise, can work both ways. I lived in Manhattan for about seven years, and on Long Island for years more, and I saw my share of actors in "real life". You probably don't know who Hal Holbrook is, but you can look him up. In real life he was incredibly handsome. I saw both Matt Damon and Angelina Jolie because my friend lived near where they were filming and I was at her house literally down the street. Matt Damon is short, stocky, and very average looking, very "typical" American of a certain age. Angelina Jolie was tiny, elfin really, and while pretty, no raving beauty, and her face is not exotic looking at all in real life.

Likewise I've seen both Michele Williams and Katie Holmes just walking around the city, and you can see prettier women at any shopping center. Reese Witherspoon is downright homely, with a hideous chin, and so is Nicholas Cage, and he has absolutely awful skin, I guess from teenage acne.

The only actors I've seen in person who were really beautiful were Michele Pfeiffer a few years after she made Scarface, and Tom Selleck, who was twice as handsome in real life as he was on TV.

Years and years ago, when I was about sixteen, my cousin rented a small boat, and we went from Santa Margherita Ligure over to Portofino and I saw Marcello Mastroianni before he became really heavy, jowly and old looking. He was so unearthly beautiful that I almost fainted, I swear to you. He was tanned, in an off white linen suit, with a dashing hat on his head and he was just breathtaking, more beautiful than he was even in La Dolce Vita. Years later I saw Giorgio Armani on the same quai, in a sky blue tight tee shirt and white pants, very tan, with a full head of white hair and I couldn't believe I'd never realized how handsome he was. Anderson Cooper, one of our newscasters, is also surprisingly handsome in real life.

So, it depends. One thing is clear: in the U.S. they no longer choose actors and actresses for their looks, more's the pity. There should be some fantasy in films, imo.

Oh dear, I've gone way off track. Tomorrow I'll take all these off topic posts and create a new thread for them.

 

[Regio X]

Regarding your previous post, completely ok with no drugs, cigarettes etc. Absolutely nothing to do with me. But alcohol? Nah. My wine is sacred, so I'll pay the price (with moderation, of course). ah ah
My maternal family tend to be "fatter" than the paternal. I don't gain nor lose weight too easily (23andMe got right this one), anyway, I'm certainly a good eater, and I have no intention to change that. lol

@Regio

Imo, it's hit or miss about both photos and film versus correspondence to what people look like in real life, I think.

My first job out of university was as an editorial assistant at a magazine. They promised me I'd work on the fiction or political articles, but because someone left unexpectedly they stuck me with fashion, although they promised to switch me over relatively soon. I couldn't BEAR it and lasted only six months. You cannot find more self-absorbed, superficial people in any other profession, even acting. I was astounded at how downright "plain" most of the models turned out to be in real life. You wouldn't have given them a second look in real life. At the same time, someone relatively attractive can take terrible pictures. I think regularity of feature is what looks attractive in photos.

Film, likewise, can work both ways. I lived in Manhattan for about seven years, and on Long Island for years more, and I saw my share of actors in "real life". You probably don't know who Hal Holbrook is, but you can look him up. In real life he was incredibly handsome. I saw both Matt Damon and Angelina Jolie because my friend lived near where they were filming and I was at her house literally down the street. Matt Damon is short, stocky, and very average looking, very "typical" American of a certain age. Angelina Jolie was tiny, elfin really, and while pretty, no raving beauty, and her face is not exotic looking at all in real life.

Likewise I've seen both Michele Williams and Katie Holmes just walking around the city, and you can see prettier women at any shopping center. Reese Witherspoon is downright homely, with a hideous chin, and so is Nicholas Cage, and he has absolutely awful skin, I guess from teenage acne.

The only actors I've seen in person who were really beautiful were Michele Pfeiffer a few years after she made Scarface, and Tom Selleck, who was twice as handsome in real life as he was on TV.

Years and years ago, when I was about sixteen, my cousin rented a small boat, and we went from Santa Margherita Ligure over to Portofino and I saw Marcello Mastroianni before he became really heavy, jowly and old looking. He was so unearthly beautiful that I almost fainted, I swear to you. He was tanned, in an off white linen suit, with a dashing hat on his head and he was just breathtaking, more beautiful than he was even in La Dolce Vita. Years later I saw Giorgio Armani on the same quai, in a sky blue tight tee shirt and white pants, very tan, with a full head of white hair and I couldn't believe I'd never realized how handsome he was. Anderson Cooper, one of our newscasters, is also surprisingly handsome in real life.

So, it depends. One thing is clear: in the U.S. they no longer choose actors and actresses for their looks, more's the pity. There should be some fantasy in films, imo.

Oh dear, I've gone way off track. Tomorrow I'll take all these off topic posts and create a new thread for them.

Perfect! It's the tendency, indeed.
Concerning pictures vs. videos, I was focused more on "common" videos, compared to pictures, and generally speaking. At least based on what I've seen from "amateur" cameras. But I'm aware it may be just an impression.
"Professional" cameras and good photographers naturally tend to get more "realistic" pictures when they want, and without Photoshop etc.

I haven't seen many famous people in person, but what you said naturally makes perfect sense to me. That's what I was talking about, but you did it better.
I remember to have seen many years ago a famous Brazilian actor called Edson Celulari (original family name Cellurale in Italy), considered a "heartthrob" when he was young, and he seemed very different in person. My eldest brother saw Daryl Hannah also much time ago, in a store. I don't perfectly remember his impression, but IIRC he thought she was beautiful, yes. But probably not as on the screens.
As you said, the opposite is possible: the girl (or man) is not so good looking in pictures, and when you see her personally, she's actually very beautiful.