Germanic ethnogenesis: latest insights

[Northener]

@Northerner
It could make sense.
But a succession of IE tribes slightly differenciated and coming to settle in the same region could give the same impression of gradual metamorphose? I have not red the paper. It's true the Saale-Sax-Anhalt region seems having attracted a lot of tribes of diverse origins since a long time, since Chalco at least. But for the same reason I believe the kernel of future Germanics tribes could have been there or just around, maybe a bit more North and East but in contact. The vaste lands of Scandinavia were maybe not the better place to produce a "centripete" move unifying so scattered and diverse people.
We can suppose the Continent had more arguments to federate tribes around a culture. Nevertheless when the autors you cite speak of toponymy they think in Sweden and Norway? Is Denmark included? Because I don' discard Denmark as an ideal place for this kind of "new" culture, half terrestrial half maritime. Denmark is in tight contact with the Continent, at the same time a link between North Sea and Baltic, a ford and a frontier for Scandinavia. SO a cradle Denmark-North Germany seems sensible. ANd more than a South-North move has been registred into Scandinavia, before more recent times. Only bets.

I guess you are right in that sense that the ethnogenesis of the Germans is no lineair and unified development, it's most probably a mosaic in time and place.
The cradle is during the Bronze Age in which the Unetice culture, epicenter is the southeast part of Northern Germany, gave a push to the Nordic Bronze Age.
A step further is the Jastorf culture, epicenter again southeast part of Northern Germany, may be slightly more northern.
These all are related within a (a more or less coherent) area which is nowadays Northern Netherlands, Southern Scandinavia, Northeast Germany/border Poland....And sometimes you can expect for example that Southern Scandinavia has relations with the Northern Netherlands by sea without interfering Northern Germany etc etc. Needs a dissertation in stead of a short notice on Eupedia at lunchtime
But I think you can make the point that the epicenter of Germanic development is more the Southeastern part of Northern Germany, than Southern Scandinavia (Denmark,Southwest Norway, Southern Sweden). The major trends (genetics, archeological, language) form the Bronze and (early) Iron Age came form the inland to the outland (coast). Doesn't rule out other relations and developments (criss-cross) but " Im grossen und ganzen" I guess this is the case (educated guess).

 

[Northener]

@Northerner
It could make sense.
But a succession of IE tribes slightly differenciated and coming to settle in the same region could give the same impression of gradual metamorphose? I have not red the paper. It's true the Saale-Sax-Anhalt region seems having attracted a lot of tribes of diverse origins since a long time, since Chalco at least. But for the same reason I believe the kernel of future Germanics tribes could have been there or just around, maybe a bit more North and East but in contact. The vaste lands of Scandinavia were maybe not the better place to produce a "centripete" move unifying so scattered and diverse people.
We can suppose the Continent had more arguments to federate tribes around a culture. Nevertheless when the autors you cite speak of toponymy they think in Sweden and Norway? Is Denmark included? Because I don' discard Denmark as an ideal place for this kind of "new" culture, half terrestrial half maritime. Denmark is in tight contact with the Continent, at the same time a link between North Sea and Baltic, a ford and a frontier for Scandinavia. SO a cradle Denmark-North Germany seems sensible. ANd more than a South-North move has been registred into Scandinavia, before more recent times. Only bets.

The following case made me doubtful about the direct Unetice effect. And may be is a representation of the Germanic mosaic.
Yes there was a in Northern Netherlands, NW Germany and Denmark a Bronze Age culture called Sögel-Wohlde Kreis. See this passage in the Oxford Handbook:
'The Sögel Wohlde culture leads to a distinctive cultural development that spread from the eastern lowlands across Westfalia to Jutland. It is characterized particularly inhumations in burial mounds and at this stage-unlike the contemporaneous Tumulus culture of central Europe-is only known from male graves. They are identified by their grave goods:short swords or d or daggers, flanges axes, heart shaped flint arrow heads, pins and occasionally small rings of spirally wound gold wire.'
David from Eurogenes analyses my aDNA his result:
' Based on the Global 10 datasheet, which has more Nordic LN samples than the K7 sheet, this is how you come out.

Nordic_LN(-BA) 64.2
Bell_Beaker_Germany 35.8
Corded_Ware_Germany 0.0
Unetice_EBA 0.0'

So no connection with Unetice!? But between Southern Scandinavia (Jutland) and the Northern Netherlands? The Proto-Ingaevones? Or as J.J. Butler has called it the Northern Netherlands as the end of the Nordic rainbow? Quote:"And we have surely emphasized sufficiently the fact that all the leading characters have some connection with the South Scandinavian culture area and/or the ‘Mittelelbe’ province, although such connections are otherwise rare in this region."


Is the Nordic Bronze age a sort of basic layer in the North Sea or West German development?