Immigration Global Muslim anger at European depiction of Prophet Muhammad

[kumo]

Who was it who said "Christians are intolerant?" (At least most Christians have a sense of humor.)

I agree. With all my non-existing respect, the Muslim world is seriously in need of some modernizing and a reality check. It's becoming impossible for a increasingly secular society to coexist with this kind of middle age attitude.

 

[No-name]

I said it when I was being sarcastic. It was a bit of verbal irony in quoting someone else who apparently beLIEves it.

 

[No-name]

I don't think either "Wholy Moses" or "Life of Brian" could ever be made in the muslim world....

 

[kumo]

Haven't seen a lot of violence in that regard from the German Muslim community. The Turkish Community of Germany officially denounced violent reactions & even supported freedom of speech (but asked for a bit more sensitivity by the media). Other Islamic organisations in Germany reacted pretty similar to what the Christian churches did when there were some offensive caricatures about Christian stuff.

I would think all the millions of Muslims living in Islamic countries are more representative than just a German minority being restrained by secular laws.

I said it when I was being sarcastic. It was a bit of verbal irony in quoting someone else who apparently beLIEves it.

This is a reply to what exactly, Sabro? I don't remember quoting your post or believing in your "sarcasm".

 

[bossel]

I would think all the millions of Muslims living in Islamic countries are more representative than just a German minority being restrained by secular laws.

Millions maybe, but what you see on TV are a few thousand. Is the violent minority so representative?
Anyway, Maciamo was referring to the international Muslim community & the German Muslims are part of that. Served only to show that the picture presented is far from complete.


BTW, the editor (?) of France Soir has been fired for re-publishing the caricatures. I hope, that his team will react appropriately (a strike would perhaps be nice).

 

[kumo]

Millions maybe, but what you see on TV are a few thousand. Is the violent minority so representative?

I doubt an opinion poll on this matter has already been taken, but I think the "minority" you speak of is actually the majority (considering Islamic countries).

 

[strongvoicesforward]

If you mock the founder of a religion and violate that religion's traditions because you find it entertaining, you risk offending millions of followers-- who are free to respond however they wish. To their credit, they have not been violent. Hopefully no further violence will break out. A bit of tolerance can go a long way.

However, are you saying they "should" be "free to respond however they wish," regardless the degree of how upset they are with the characterization of their religion?

[It did look like you qualified that above remark in a follow post, but am not certain that post was directed at your post here which I have quoted]

I'm sure someone has suggested that muslims are just too sensitive and need to develop a sense of humor.

Some brave soul in those countries most definitely should put that out for them to consider.

** I do find it quite hilarious how Matt Groening mocks Xtianity with Flanders on The Simpsons. I wonder if his equivelant would be tolerated in the Middle East. ???

The Flanders' are amongst us. Beware! IF they get control of the school boards our children will first learn that Creative Design really is a scientific subject, and after that there is "Intelligent Falling" -- an invisible entity that keep his hands on us so that we don`t float away -- after all, has gravity really been proven to exist (some think not).

 

[No-name]

Matt Groening and the Simpsons are funny. Strongvoicesforward needs practice.

 

[Maciamo]

Haven't seen a lot of violence in that regard from the German Muslim community. The Turkish Community of Germany officially denounced violent reactions & even supported freedom of speech (but asked for a bit more sensitivity by the media).

I didn't mention the Turks intentionally, because, like the Muslim Europeans of the Balkans, they are not very religious (e.g. wear Western-style clothes, drink and make alcohol, don't pray 5x a day or at all, etc.). That's for those who live in Turkey. My guess is that those who have lived a long time in Europe, or were born and raised there, are even less religious.

 

[nurizeko]

They see it as offensive because the Quran says that God or his Prophet must not be depicted. It's purely religious. If you are not a fundamentalist Muslim, you probably can't understand that feeling...

It also says that muslims should not associate themselves with those who mock allah and his prophet and basically says if their maknig fun of your religion, ignore it, and dont associate with them, it however doesnt say that you have to close embassies and otherwise call for yet another world jihad against an entire country.

As a muslim friend said once about his fellow muslims; "read the f**king manual, b**ch!"

(the manual being the quran)

 

[ArmandV]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander...

It is amusing that Muslims are up in arms over the Mohammad cartoons. On the other side of the coin, Al Jazeera reports, for instance:

"Up to 300 Indonesian Muslims went on a rampage in the lobby of a building housing the Danish embassy in Jakarta on Friday. Shouting 'Allahu Akbar' [God is Greatest], they smashed lamps with bamboo sticks, threw chairs, lobbed rotten eggs and tomatoes and tore up a Danish flag."

These same outraged folks, however, have yet to express a peep of protest over cartoons that routinely appear in the Arab press, which poke fun at the 9/11 attacks and the Holocaust.


Mideast media watchdog Tom Gross has collected on his web site a few of the cartoons that keep some of these sensitive souls in stitches.
One knee-slapper that ran Qatar's Al-Watan newspaper nine months after the 9/11 attacks shows former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon watching as an Israeli plane crashes into the World Trade Center. The Arabic words alongside the Twin Towers are "The Peace."

Then there's the cartoon that appeared in the Jordanian newspaper Ad-Dustur in October 2003, which depicted the railroad tracks to Auschwitz-Birkenau.

The punchline? Israeli flags have replaced the swastikas flying above the death camp - with a caption that reads: "Gaza Strip or the Israeli Annihilation Camp.?

And for those who can't appreciate the humor in that tableau, there's always the cartoon that ran in Saudi Arabia's Arab News in April 2002, which shows Prime Minister Sharon wielding a swastika-shaped axe to chop up Palestinian children.

As Mr. Gross notes: Most print media in the Arab world are under the full or partial control of the ruling regimes.

It seems they can dish it out, but can't take it!

 

[Maciamo]

The Muslim reaction to the cartoon depicting Muhammad is a real proof of their utter hypocrisy. Muslim tradition may forbid depictions of god or Mohammed, but Muslims themselves have depicted the prophet thousands of times in past centuries. Just search Google Image for Prophet Muhammad and see what you get. I have seen myself such depictions in India, and other in pictures from Muslim art from the 14th to 16th centuries.

There have been other drawings of the prophet in Western and Islamic newspapers before, without reaction. There is even an official depiction of Muhammad in Iran. The Danish caricature is not the real reason behind the recent violence against Europeans from North Africa to Indonesia. It is more likely just an excuse to boycott and assail European interests in Muslim countries. The boycott on Danish products has already cost over 40 million euro to a Danish dairy product company. Muslims in Europe have seized the opportunity to protest and destroy whatever they could. The authors of the caricatures have received numerous death threats, with references to Dutch film dirctor Theo Van Gogh, who was assassinated last year by Muslim extremists born and raised in the Netherlands. The Danish newspaper office has had to be evacuated due to a bomb alert...

Make no mistake, the Muslim community is trying to suppress freedom of speech and freedom of press in Western democracies. Boycotting European products and reacting violently to a depiction that Muslims themselves are guilty of, is only an excuse to wage their Jihad against freedom and democracy. If what the so-called Muslim fundamentalist we see on TV attacking European embassies and consulates in their country and giving death threats to European tourists and journalists alike are not representative of the mainstream Islam, then the Muslim majority around the world should condemn such violence. They haven't done it. Many Muslim governments have supported fundamentalists rather than condemn them. Muslim leaders have issued warning to European governments, in the lines with the violence seen on TV. Some have withdrawn the ambassadors from the "guilty" European countries. Boycotts of course come directly from governments, not ordinary people. This is not the action of a minority. It is what the Muslim world looks like nowadays. They would kill people for a humouristic drawing... even people who have nothing to do with all this. It's a clash of civilisations - one that may not find appeasement until a terrible war destroy one of the other civilisation.

Here is a video news for those who cannot see it on TV :

Euro news : Protests at Danish embassy

I was surprised to see that the most violent videos of Euronews or other European channels (or even CNN) were not available on the Net.

Note also that the editor of 'France Soir', the French newspaper who had reprinted the caricature, was fired by one of the owners of the company, who happens to be a French citizen of Egyptian origin.

 

[Void]

Long life Freedom of speech, and press....

there is a difference between the freedom and disrespectful, unthoughtful permissiveness

But I guess they don't see how silly it makes them look when they get
angry at a cartoon

who said that they got angry just because of a cartoon?

But they should understand/respect that there are countries where they have Freedom of press, and that they can NOT DEMAND an apologie from the goverment, and boycoting denmark * also norway, and swedish *
products, all because of this...

and why not?

If just a caricature in some newspapers is enough to startle violence around
the Muslim world and "encourage terrorists", then the whole concept of Islam
is a threat to world peace.

More than that, Muslim beliefs are so uncompromising that Muslims around
the world also seem to run into conflict with people of other religious
affiliations.

Make no mistake, the Muslim community is trying to suppress freedom of
speech and freedom of press in Western democracies.

crap... mindless generalization
at the day the majority in "the west" will think like this, i'll say that
the westesrn world had come to the end. And all its high ideals are no more
than soap bubble

 

[kumo]

there is a difference between the freedom and disrespectful, unthoughtful permissiveness

No there isn't. Being able to be "disrespectful" is a basic tenet of freedom.

who said that they got angry just because of a cartoon?

Err.. Muslims said it.

at the day the majority in "the west" will think like this, i'll say that
the westesrn world had come to the end. And all its high ideals are no more
than soap bubble

At the day the majority in "the west" will ignore reality for the sake of political correctness, I'll say that the western world has come to the end.

 

[Maciamo]

there is a difference between the freedom and disrespectful, unthoughtful permissiveness
who said that they got angry just because of a cartoon?
and why not?
...
crap... mindless generalization
at the day the majority in "the west" will think like this, i'll say that
the westesrn world had come to the end. And all its high ideals are no more
than soap bubble

Support and defend your position rather than use words like "crap" and "mindless".

 

[Void]

No there isn't. Being able to be "disrespectful" is a basic tenet of freedom.

freedom from what? from "chimera called conscience"?

Err.. Muslims said it.

and Bush said his goal to implant democracy all over the world ?:

At the day the majority in "the west" will ignore reality for the sake of political correctness, I'll say that the western world has come to the end.

majority of the west already doesn`t see the reality... oh, no, it sees... the one it is most comfortable with

 

[Void]

Support and defend your position rather than use words like "crap" and "mindless".

i will, i am just slow on wording and typing

 

[kumo]

freedom from what? from "chimera called conscience"?

No, freedom to express my opinions (yes, which entails other people's freedom to attack them). I can have either a good or a bad opinion about anything, and it's my right to choose what I think.

and Bush said his goal to implant democracy all over the world ?:

Are you implying Muslims are liars too? Oh! What a mindless generalization!

majority of the west already doesn`t see the reality... oh, no, it sees... the one it is most comfortable with

Do you mean the reality people are "most comfortable with" is Muslims attacking our basic freedoms and trying to turn our governments into a theocracy? I don't find it any comfortable at all.

 

[ArmandV]

Former NY Mayor Ed Koch recently wrote:

"Many Palestinians, like Iranians led by current President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and other Islamic fanatics, support the statement of Osama bin Laden's second in command, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who said of Jews, Christians, Hindus and others, "I vow by the One who raised the seven layers to Heaven (i.e., Allah) and who has beheaded tyrants, that the leader of America has been thoroughly humiliated.

Our heroes have defended this place. They have entered legend. Killing the infidels is our religion, slaughtering them is our religion, until they convert to Islam or pay us tribute."

Israel and the rest of the world should take these fanatics at their word, just as Mein Kampf foretold Hitler's plan for Europe, the Jews and the world. The Islamic fanatics whose views are often described as fascist - and there are hundreds of millions of them - have launched a war of civilizations: Islam against the West.

This war will continue for a long time to come. In the minds of Islamic fanatics, Israel and the United States are at the top of the list of nations they see as standing in their way to victory.

The Times in its news analysis of Jan. 30, reported that, "At a conference in October titled, ?The World Without Zionism' ?[the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad] effectively called for wiping not just Israel off the map, but America too. ?Many have tried to disperse disappointment in this struggle between the Islamic world and the infidels,' he said. ?They say it is not possible to have a world without the United States and Zionism. But you know that this is a possible goal and slogan.'"

The Times reported on the same day that in Baghdad, "Bombs exploded Sunday outside four Christian churches and the office of the Vatican envoy, killing three people and wounding at least 15, in a rare and seemingly coordinated set of attacks on Iraq's dwindling Christian community."

The fanatics see most of the nations in Europe and elsewhere ultimately buckling and pleading for peace at any price. Europe will soon be tested when it is asked to continue to give the Hamas Palestinian regime millions of dollars in subsidies, most of which will be used to pay the salaries of those supporting or individually intending to commit terrorist attacks against Israel now, and later throughout in the world.

Will they pay that tribute? I believe they will.

The only realistic option for Israel is not to negotiate with the Palestinians unless and until the Palestinians in Gaza, where they have self rule, form a new government that arrests terrorists, disarms the population and proves that it has accepted the two-state solution.

Its good faith must be evidenced not simply by words and by eliminating murderous covenants from their charter. It must be established by actions, and the passage of time proving the bona fides of those actions and words.

On the first occasion of an attack on Israel by Hamas, Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz has promised a response of great magnitude. In my judgment, that is exactly what is required.

If Europe had reacted that way when Hitler marched into the Rhineland in 1936, he would never have marched into Poland in 1939 and begun World War II which exacted death tolls of an estimated more than 60 million people throughout the world.

The Hamas victory has brought us to a moment of truth. The question is, will there be appeasement and a return to the era of Neville Chamberlain, or will the nations of the world stand up to the Islamic terrorists and defeat them, as Winston Churchill and Franklin Delano Roosevelt did with the Nazis and Japanese."

 

[bossel]

I doubt an opinion poll on this matter has already been taken, but I think the "minority" you speak of is actually the majority (considering Islamic countries).

I was speaking only of violent behaviour, tolerance is a completely different issue.

There are roughly 1.5 billion Muslims on Earth, a few hundred thousand of those demonstrated, only a few thousand got violent. Therefore I find the brush often applied to "the" Muslims, here & in some media, much too broad.