Greatest Spanish contribution(s) to the world ? OFFTOPIC about fascism

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Reinaert

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reinaert is right. spaniards are just getting what they deserve for their historical ties with fascism.

No idiot!

The Spanish government is fascist.
The Spanish king is a fascist to the bone.

The Spanish people is suffering from those criminals.
It's time to get the fascist regime out of order.
 
Spain has never been a fascist state, ignorant.

A lie Wilhelm.
And you know that.

The Spanish state is a fascist one, from the moment Franco took over the power. Spain will only be able to become a free country if they abolish the past in becoming a republic again.

We are fighting the same struggle in The Netherlands.
The Royal family in Holland are also warmongers and parasites.
The father of our Queen was a member of the German SS.
The queen to be Máxima Zorreguieta is the daughter of an Argentinian member of the fascist government under Galtiery.
 
A lie Wilhelm.
And you know that.

The Spanish state is a fascist one, from the moment Franco took over the power. Spain will only be able to become a free country if they abolish the past in becoming a republic again.

We are fighting the same struggle in The Netherlands.
The Royal family in Holland are also warmongers and parasites.
Only Italy has been a fascist state, and btw they killed far less people than several modern countries, included the USA
 
Only Italy has been a fascist state, and btw they killed far less people than several modern countries, included the USA

Wake up lad!
 
"The Spanish state is totalitarian? New. I think they are totalitarian nazionale regionalist parties that support terrorism, which is the greatest scourge that must fight against the world and countries as well, this is the real fascism today, impose ideas by force of terror.
 
No idiot!
The Spanish government is fascist.
The Spanish king is a fascist to the bone.
The Spanish people is suffering from those criminals.
It's time to get the fascist regime out of order.

and who put the spanish politicians and the king in charge?? the spaniards. thus spaniards are fascists. you already said it... you seems to be suffering from bipolar syndrome.

anyways, a dutch can't give lessons about democracy and talk about spanish fascism, you people are supporting an OPENLY racist politician (geert wilders) which is even worse. the netherlands give me nauseas, you should clean your own house before talking about others.
 
Spain has never been a fascist state, ignorant.

Franco's regime is one of the most typical examples of fascist regimes in Europe, along with Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Originally the term fascism referred to the National Fascist Party of Mussolini, but the term has long since been used to describe all radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideologies.

Reinaert said:
The Spanish government is fascist.
The Spanish king is a fascist to the bone.
The Spanish people is suffering from those criminals.
It's time to get the fascist regime out of order.

There is absolutely no justification that the modern Spanish government is fascist in any way. FYI, Spain is now ruled by the Socialist Party, the archenemy of Franco's regime.

It is totally unfair to criticise the modern Spanish state. Spain is in my opinion one of the countries which has improved the most in terms of social, political and economic reforms over the last two or three decades. Spain was still backward by Northern European standard in many respects in the 1970's, but it has mostly caught up with the rest of Western Europe. For example, recycling is a good indicator of a country's human development, and Spanish people are among the most avid recyclers nowadays (along with the Germanic countries, except the UK). Spain has also made tremendous improvements regarding gender equality, economic freedom and democracy. The areas that are still lagging behind are freedom of press and corruption.
 
Haha Maciamo..
There is a story to tell about the Spanish so called socialists.

Don't open the sewer!
 
Franco's regime is one of the most typical examples of fascist regimes in Europe, along with Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Originally the term fascism referred to the National Fascist Party of Mussolini, but the term has long since been used to describe all radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideologies.
The Franco regime was not fascist, it had nothing to do with Fascism. Even Franco stated clear that they were not fascist.

It is totally unfair to criticise the modern Spanish state. Spain is in my opinion one of the countries which has improved the most in terms of social, political and economic reforms over the last two or three decades. Spain was still backward by Northern European standard in many respects in the 1970's, but it has mostly caught up with the rest of Western Europe. For example, recycling is a good indicator of a country's human development, and Spanish people are among the most avid recyclers nowadays (along with the Germanic countries, except the UK). Spain has also made tremendous improvements regarding gender equality, economic freedom and democracy. The areas that are still lagging behind are freedom of press and corruption.
The HDI of Spain is higher than that of Luxembourg, Austria, or UK, and by the way, Spain didn't receive any help from the Marhall Plan, and we had an autarchy during Franco's regime. So we have built our country by ourselves, unlike Germany or France which have been built by the USA, basically
 
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Franco's regime is one of the most typical examples of fascist regimes in Europe, along with Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Originally the term fascism referred to the National Fascist Party of Mussolini, but the term has long since been used to describe all radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideologies.



There is absolutely no justification that the modern Spanish government is fascist in any way. FYI, Spain is now ruled by the Socialist Party, the archenemy of Franco's regime.

It is totally unfair to criticise the modern Spanish state. Spain is in my opinion one of the countries which has improved the most in terms of social, political and economic reforms over the last two or three decades. Spain was still backward by Northern European standard in many respects in the 1970's, but it has mostly caught up with the rest of Western Europe. For example, recycling is a good indicator of a country's human development, and Spanish people are among the most avid recyclers nowadays (along with the Germanic countries, except the UK). Spain has also made tremendous improvements regarding gender equality, economic freedom and democracy. The areas that are still lagging behind are freedom of press and corruption.

The socialist party was almost inexistent during Franco's regime, only the communists made something against it. It was a pro-bolshevik party till the arrival of democracy, because european socialdemocracy reorganized them to face the communist party, wich was the best positioned leftist party in Spain.

Franco's dictatorship had fascist ticks till the 50's, but was an authoritarian conservative regime that hated revolutionary processes. Fascists are revolutionary and anti-conservative, are socialists and nationalists. Most admirated country by Franco was UK, not Germany or Italy.

As an anechdote, the first contacts the "republicans" (they called themselves reds) had to get military help were with fascist Italy and nazi Germany, while the rebels did it with the brittish. The military help that fascist regimes gave to the rebels was due to the contacts that falangists (true and only fascists among the rebels) had with german and italian delegates.
 
The Franco regime was not fascist, it had nothing to do with Fascism. Even Franco stated clear that they were not fascist.

Believe what you want. There is clearly no point arguing with you (or many other Spanish members on this forum).

The HDI of Spain is higher than that of Luxembourg, Austria, or UK, and by the way, Spain didn't receive any help from the Marhall Plan, and we had an autarchy during Franco's regime. So we have built our country by ourselves, unlike Germany or France which have been built by the USA, basically

Are you delusional enough to think that any country nowadays can build its economy all by itself ? Even China would still be underdeveloped if it hadn't open up and accepted help (e.g. foreign investment and the conditions that come with it) from other nations, especially the USA.

Spain is a lot like Ireland. They were two of the poorest and most socially and politically backward nations in Europe in the mid 20th century, but both benefited hugely from foreign investments. The investments came in very different shapes though. Ireland was chosen as the European HQ for most of the US high-tech companies. In Spain money flew mainly into real estate and tourism. After Franco's death, big corporations from Northern Europe and America expanded their businesses in various sectors in Spain. That's how all the foreign investments came more or less at once, creating an economic boom.

The problem with both Spain and Ireland is that a lot of the new wealth was actually generated by foreign companies or artificially created through real estate speculation. That's why both countries were badly hit by the financial crisis in 2007-8.

In comparison countries like France or Germany suffered little from the crisis, because they were more self-standing. Germany even managed the feat to lower its unemployment and increase its exports the year following the world market collapse. In other words, countries that were badly hit by the crisis were those that were caught up in a speculative bubble. The financial crisis was a natural market re-adjustment.
 
The socialist party was almost inexistent during Franco's regime, only the communists made something against it. It was a pro-bolshevik party till the arrival of democracy, because european socialdemocracy reorganized them to face the communist party, wich was the best positioned leftist party in Spain.

There was no clear distinction between "socialist" and "communist" at the time. Lenin and the Bolsheviks used both terms to refer to their ideology. The USSR stands for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Most Eastern Europeans will tell you that their country was not communist from 1945 to 1990 but "socialist" (while true communism was, in their eyes, in countries like China or North Korea).

The distinction between "communism" and "socialism" was used mostly by Western Europeans so that they could have leftist (socialist) parties without being associated with the USSR. France still has communist and socialist parties nowadays, and the distinction is not always as clear-cut as people think. The main distinction used to be that communists had sympathies for the USSR. But 21 years after its collapse and the general discredit of the communist system, one can wonder what still distinguish the two denominations.
 
There was no clear distinction between "socialist" and "communist" at the time. Lenin and the Bolsheviks used both terms to refer to their ideology. The USSR stands for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Most Eastern Europeans will tell you that their country was not communist from 1945 to 1990 but "socialist" (while true communism was, in their eyes, in countries like China or North Korea).

The distinction between "communism" and "socialism" was used mostly by Western Europeans so that they could have leftist (socialist) parties without being associated with the USSR. France still has communist and socialist parties nowadays, and the distinction is not always as clear-cut as people think. The main distinction used to be that communists had sympathies for the USSR. But 21 years after its collapse and the general discredit of the communist system, one can wonder what still distinguish the two denominations.

Here, since the 70's, socialist means "socialdemocrat" while communist means "real socialist". However, the born of communist parties comes from the III International, when the radical revolutionary socialists considered that socialist parties had betrayed the principle of internationalism by giving support to national governments during the Great War. Fascism is equally a socialist offshot, but in this case embracing nationalism.
 
Believe what you want. There is clearly no point arguing with you (or many other Spanish members on this forum).
Well, it's not my problem if people don't know the most basic facts. Fascism was a revolutionary, anti-liberal movement, francoism was the contrary, anti-revolutionary and even they killed facists from their own party, real fascists (here called National-Syndicalists, like Ledesma or Hedilla) because they wanted secretely their own revolution against Franco, unlike franoists who wanted to maintain the old status of pre-Republic
Are you delusional enough to think that any country nowadays can build its economy all by itself ? Even China would still be underdeveloped if it hadn't open up and accepted help (e.g. foreign investment and the conditions that come with it) from other nations, especially the USA.
I wasn't talk about nowadays, I was talking about post-WWII, and in the case of Spain also post-Civil War. Yes, all by ourselves. We had an autarchy. We were not part of the Marshall Plan. Obviously in the globalized world of today this would be imposible. An autarchy would be imposible.
 
Well well.. There are 2 main parameters you can use in politics.
1 The degree of personal freedom.
2 The degree of economic freedom.

In both fascism/falangism and national socialism personal freedom is zero.
They are authoritarian.

The difference between Gemany and Spain/Italy was the Germans supported the main industries, and in Spain and Italy the landowners had a lot of influence.

Fascism is a general term for a system that is conservative, and in the same time authoritarian. And that was the case with the Franco junta also.

The Spanish people was oppressed in a very rigid system.
I once read a book about a young man who wanted to become an army officer, and his mother tells him a real man wears his dick on the left side in his pants.
Ridiculous. How can people think freely, if they were brainwashed all those years.

Spain, according to many reactions on this forum, still seems to be a cultural island.
The same problem like the British have.

In my personal experience people from Portugal are more seafaring, and far more relaxed.
They know much more of what is happening in the world.
At least Portugal had a peaceful revolution, in Spain Franco turned back the clock a hundred years or so.

The harder you stick your heels in the sand, the more resistance you get from other Europeans.

BTW.. The Marshall plan was bogus. The Dutch Navy and Merchant shipping lost more ships and crews in favor of the Allied Forces in World War 2 then the Marshall plan could pay back.
 
and who put the spanish politicians and the king in charge?? the spaniards. thus spaniards are fascists. you already said it... you seems to be suffering from bipolar syndrome.
anyways, a dutch can't give lessons about democracy and talk about spanish fascism, you people are supporting an OPENLY racist politician (geert wilders) which is even worse. the netherlands give me nauseas, you should clean your own house before talking about others.

Haha.. I already told you Geert Wilders is an idiot.

And because you're from Chile..
You surely know many people from Chile got to The Netherlands when Allende was killed. And they live with us until today.
In the same time many idiots in Chile still support the Pinochet era.
How fascist can a country be.
So, pot kettle black.

And stop trolling!
 
And another filthy matter in Spanish history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Tejero

It's not very difficult to find new views on the things that happened in 1981.

The storming of the Spanish parliament was staged.
It was a piece of theater, to make Juan Carlos the hero of the country.
But he also orchestrated the entire operation, to derail the socialists.

It was a falangist dirty trick to restore the old order.
 
Haha.. I already told you Geert Wilders is an idiot.
And because you're from Chile..
You surely know many people from Chile got to The Netherlands when Allende was killed. And they live with us until today.
In the same time many idiots in Chile still support the Pinochet era.
How fascist can a country be.
So, pot kettle black.
And stop trolling!
He thinks you're bipolar!? :LOL: Interesting, given his odd behavior on this forum.
 
Well well.. There are 2 main parameters you can use in politics.
1 The degree of personal freedom.
2 The degree of economic freedom.

Interesting... I rarely see leftists like yourself use the Nolan Chart system of political ideology classification, because it positions leftists as "anti-freedom" in a sense (economic). Although I agree with your analysis regarding it.
 
Interesting... I rarely see leftists like yourself use the Nolan Chart system of political ideology classification, because it positions leftists as "anti-freedom" in a sense (economic). Although I agree with your analysis regarding it.

I have no problem with that.
I agree that socialism is for 100% personal freedom, but because all people in the world have to share things, I think we should bring economic freedom to 50%.

Capitalism destroys more than what it offers.
 
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