Greeks form a genetic cline between the Balkans and the Eastern Mediterranean

Georgewalley

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Every regions includes different individuals from each region. Used Eurogenes K13 to make an average for every region.

Personal observations:

There's a correlation between the Increase of East Mediterranean and the decrease of Baltic and North Atlantic. The East Mediterranean element seems to be the highest in every region although it gets balanced out by the Baltic and North Atlantic as the Cline moves from the Islands to the Mainland.
What sets apart the Mainland and the Islands are the Baltic and North Atlantic which is significantly lower on the Islands while the West Asian seems to increase significantly along the East Mediterranean.
The West Mediterranean seems to be a basic component which probably means it's an ancient link between every region.
The increase of Baltic probably suggest the Steppe gene-flow brought by Slavic speakers during the Early Middle Ages or even before when the first Slavic speakers appeared in the Balkans, but I think a good part of it is of recent (Vlach, Bulgarian) origin.
The North Atlantic might suggest Germanic or Celtic influence, but it can be also a Neolithic Farmer related component because the Iberian Neolithic farmers already had high amounts of it. (It peaks in modern Southern French and Basques)
Greeks from Macedonia are genetically indistinguishable from non Greek speaking Macedonians and other Minorities which suggest that it's population is Hellenized for the most Part. While Thessaly and Cypriots seem both outliers but show close links to the rest of Greek speaking regions.
Another Groups which worth to be mentioned are the Pontic or Pontic mixed individuals who make a good part of Northern Greece's population Some of them were included in the Macedonian academic samples but I left them out because they were genetic outliers and didn't represent the native genetic of the region to make it more accurate.

Greeks from Macedonia - closest to non Greek Macedonians, followed by Greeks from Thessaly, Bulgarians and Southern Romanians

22.18 East Mediterranean
21.94 Baltic
20.37 North Atlantic
19.28 West Mediterranean
11.90 West Asian
2.38 Red Sea
1%> Trace components

Greeks from Thessaly - Closest to Macedonian Greeks followed by Bulgarians, Romanians and then closest to Central Italians and Southern Greeks

24.53 East Mediterranean
20.64 West Mediterranean
20.56 North Atlantic
16.88 Baltic
11.97 West Asian
3.51 Red Sea
1%> Trace components

Greeks from Peloponnese
- Closest to Italians from Abruzzo, followed by Northern Greeks, Sicilians, Bulgarians and Romanians.

27.08 East Mediterranean
20.35 West Mediterranean
18.28 North Atlantic
15.72 Baltic
13.38 West Asian
3.18 Red Sea
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from Laconia - Similar to Peloponnese with slightly less shift to Balkan populations

26.27 East Mediterranean
20.53 West Mediterranean
19.44 North Atlantic
14.26 West Asian
13.44 Baltic
4.21 Red Sea
0.93 East Asian
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from Crete - Closest to European Jews, Sicilians followed by Peloponnese Greeks, Central Italians and Greek Cypriots

33.60 East Mediterranean
20.59 West Mediterranean
17.95 West Asian
12.36 North Atlantic
8.69 Baltic
4.90 Red Sea
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from South Aegean - Closest to European Jews, Sicilians, Cypriots followed by Mainland Greeks, West Anatolian Turks and Central Italians

35.77 East Mediterranean
21.14 West Mediterranean
17.64 West Asian
11.79 North Atlantic
6.05 Red Sea
5.48 Baltic
0.94 South Asian
1%> Trace regions

Greek Cypriots - Closest to Greek Islanders, Coastal Levantines, Anatolian Turks followed by Italians and Mainland Greeks.

40.53 East Mediterranean
20.61 West Asian
19.36 West Mediterranean
7.65 Red Sea
7.51 North Atlantic
2.40 Baltic
0.60 North East African
1%> Trace regions
 
Every regions includes different individuals from each region. Used Eurogenes K13 to make an average for every region.

Personal observations:

There's a correlation between the Increase of East Mediterranean and the decrease of Baltic and North Atlantic. The East Mediterranean element seems to be the highest in every region although it gets balanced out by the Baltic and North Atlantic as the Cline moves from the Islands to the Mainland.
What sets apart the Mainland and the Islands are the Baltic and North Atlantic which is significantly lower on the Islands while the West Asian seems to increase significantly along the East Mediterranean.
The West Mediterranean seems to be a basic component which probably means it's an ancient link between every region.
The increase of Baltic probably suggest the Steppe gene-flow brought by Slavic speakers during the Early Middle Ages or even before when the first Slavic speakers appeared in the Balkans, but I think a good part of it is of recent (Vlach, Bulgarian) origin.
The North Atlantic might suggest Germanic or Celtic influence, but it can be also a Neolithic Farmer related component because the Iberian Neolithic farmers already had high amounts of it. (It peaks in modern Southern French and Basques)
Greeks from Macedonia are genetically indistinguishable from non Greek speaking Macedonians and other Minorities which suggest that it's population is Hellenized for the most Part. While Thessaly and Cypriots seem both outliers but show close links to the rest of Greek speaking regions.
Another Groups which worth to be mentioned are the Pontic or Pontic mixed individuals who make a good part of Northern Greece's population Some of them were included in the Macedonian academic samples but I left them out because they were genetic outliers and didn't represent the native genetic of the region to make it more accurate.

Greeks from Macedonia - closest to non Greek Macedonians, followed by Greeks from Thessaly, Bulgarians and Southern Romanians

22.18 East Mediterranean
21.94 Baltic
20.37 North Atlantic
19.28 West Mediterranean
11.90 West Asian
2.38 Red Sea
1%> Trace components

Greeks from Thessaly - Closest to Macedonian Greeks followed by Bulgarians, Romanians and then closest to Central Italians and Southern Greeks

24.53 East Mediterranean
20.64 West Mediterranean
20.56 North Atlantic
16.88 Baltic
11.97 West Asian
3.51 Red Sea
1%> Trace components

Greeks from Peloponnese
- Closest to Italians from Abruzzo, followed by Northern Greeks, Sicilians, Bulgarians and Romanians.

27.08 East Mediterranean
20.35 West Mediterranean
18.28 North Atlantic
15.72 Baltic
13.38 West Asian
3.18 Red Sea
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from Laconia - Similar to Peloponnese with slightly less shift to Balkan populations

26.27 East Mediterranean
20.53 West Mediterranean
19.44 North Atlantic
14.26 West Asian
13.44 Baltic
4.21 Red Sea
0.93 East Asian
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from Crete - Closest to European Jews, Sicilians followed by Peloponnese Greeks, Central Italians and Greek Cypriots

33.60 East Mediterranean
20.59 West Mediterranean
17.95 West Asian
12.36 North Atlantic
8.69 Baltic
4.90 Red Sea
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from South Aegean - Closest to European Jews, Sicilians, Cypriots followed by Mainland Greeks, West Anatolian Turks and Central Italians

35.77 East Mediterranean
21.14 West Mediterranean
17.64 West Asian
11.79 North Atlantic
6.05 Red Sea
5.48 Baltic
0.94 South Asian
1%> Trace regions

Greek Cypriots - Closest to Greek Islanders, Coastal Levantines, Anatolian Turks followed by Italians and Mainland Greeks.

40.53 East Mediterranean
20.61 West Asian
19.36 West Mediterranean
7.65 Red Sea
7.51 North Atlantic
2.40 Baltic
0.60 North East African
1%> Trace regions

No one here is interested in the personal observations of some do doubt already banned poster based on data purloined from random people on the internet and then run through "calculators".

Been there, seen that.

What's the matter? Didn't Sikeliot like being mentioned today? Too bad.

You're not going to turn this into theapricity like you're doing at anthrogenica.
 
Did you actually take the time and make up all those numbers?? I mean that's just so funny!

By the way, you're wrong about Greek Cypriots - they are the original Steppe people the ancestors of South Indians.
Sources: Dude, trust me.
 
Is this based on your personal observations?

This is more than personal observations, these are the Eurogenes K13 distances.


Greek Macedonia
6.1457095Greek Peloponnese
8.0398771Greek_Thessaly
8.2804502Central_Greek
10.401354East_Sicilian
11.445137Italian_Abruzzo
12.144415Greek Crete
12.983577Greek North Aegean
13.502875South_Italian
13.565481Ashkenazi
14.065022Bulgarian
14.229701West_Sicilian
14.534935Greek South Aegean
17.082679Romanian
17.929914Tuscan
20.079638Sephardic_Jewish
20.718899Italian_Jewish
21.992344Turkish
22.304219Serbian
23.524725North_Italian
23.562398Greek Cyprian


Greek Thessaly
2.5127641Greek Peloponnese
6.1457095Greek Macedonia
8.0667569Central_Greek
9.5172981Italian_Abruzzo
10.026509East_Sicilian
10.407014West_Sicilian
10.757359Bulgarian
11.678656Tuscan
12.778374Ashkenazi
13.342975Romanian
13.624076South_Italian
15.503445Greek Crete
16.866299North_Italian
17.193141Greek North Aegean
18.011944Greek South Aegean
18.363274Serbian
20.295477Italian_Jewish
20.381581Sephardic_Jewish
25.262623Moldavian
26.422493Portuguese


Greek Peloponnese
2.5127641Greek_Thessaly
6.1457095Greek Macedonia
8.0667569Central_Greek
9.5172981Italian_Abruzzo
9.6853674East_Sicilian
11.195892West_Sicilian
11.837013Bulgarian
12.534297Ashkenazi
13.443689South_Italian
13.625052Tuscan
14.623207Greek Crete
14.703603Romanian
16.194956Greek North Aegean
17.263012Greek South Aegean
19.377663North_Italian
20.056734Serbian
20.412746Sephardic_Jewish
20.558294Italian_Jewish
27.063834Moldavian
27.096955Greek Cyprian


Central Greek
3.0881361East_Sicilian
5.5946032South_Italian
6.2563875Italian_Abruzzo
7.1437455West_Sicilian
7.6535353Greek Crete
8.0667569Greek Peloponnese
8.2804502Greek Macedonia
8.7373293Ashkenazi
8.787492Greek_Thessaly
8.9926499Greek North Aegean
9.942106Greek South Aegean
13.085604Sephardic_Jewish
13.601688Italian_Jewish
13.852006Tuscan
18.848468Bulgarian
19.658788Greek Cyprian
21.071246North_Italian
21.452477Romanian
22.949991Turkish
23.219593Lebanese_Muslim



Greek Crete
3.1964625Greek South Aegean
4.6241953Greek North Aegean
6.8502081South_Italian
7.6118705East_Sicilian
7.6535353Central_Greek
9.0974245Ashkenazi
10.491076Sephardic_Jewish
11.095852Italian_Jewish
12.144415Greek Macedonia
12.367929Greek Cyprian
12.74341Italian_Abruzzo
13.162156West_Sicilian
14.623207Greek Peloponnese
15.503445Greek_Thessaly
16.700059Lebanese_Muslim
18.457716Syrian
19.29529Turkish
20.869163Tuscan
20.987865Samaritan
21.720829Jordanian


Greek North Aegean
4.0153518Greek South Aegean
4.6241953Greek Crete
7.9382839South_Italian
8.9926499Central_Greek
9.2839122East_Sicilian
11.249616Sephardic_Jewish
12.25008Ashkenazi
12.530686Greek Cyprian
12.709262Italian_Abruzzo
12.983577Greek Macedonia
13.10069Italian_Jewish
14.438998West_Sicilian
15.425115Lebanese_Muslim
16.149835Turkish
16.194956Greek Peloponnese
17.193141Greek_Thessaly
17.267342Syrian
21.236367Samaritan
21.462446Assyrian
21.479749Jordanian


Greek South Aegean
3.1964625Greek Crete
4.0153518Greek North Aegean
7.951069South_Italian
9.4980902East_Sicilian
9.7447796Sephardic_Jewish
9.9294494Greek Cyprian
9.942106Central_Greek
10.846836Ashkenazi
10.962277Italian_Jewish
14.213154Lebanese_Muslim
14.534935Greek Macedonia
14.556542Italian_Abruzzo
14.905727West_Sicilian
16.003886Syrian
17.263012Greek Peloponnese
18.011944Greek_Thessaly
18.113189Turkish
18.685004Samaritan
19.733544Jordanian
19.763439Lebanese_Christian


Greek Cyprian
8.2212455Lebanese_Muslim
9.9294494Greek South Aegean
10.0754Samaritan
10.503251Lebanese_Christian
11.031736Syrian
12.367929Greek Crete
12.530686Greek North Aegean
12.694763Lebanese_Druze
13.63385Sephardic_Jewish
14.32326Jordanian
14.671786Italian_Jewish
14.699813Palestinian
16.143823Kurdish_Jewish
16.528267Assyrian
16.849331South_Italian
17.942261Ashkenazi
18.820645East_Sicilian
19.658788Central_Greek
19.683886Turkish
22.236604Armenian
 
Is this based only on your personal observations?

This is more than personal observations, these are the Eurogenes K13 distances for Greek mainlanders.

Greek Macedonia
6.1457095Greek Peloponnese
8.0398771Greek_Thessaly
8.2804502Central_Greek
10.401354East_Sicilian
11.445137Italian_Abruzzo
12.144415Greek Crete
12.983577Greek North Aegean
13.502875South_Italian
13.565481Ashkenazi
14.065022Bulgarian
14.229701West_Sicilian
14.534935Greek South Aegean
17.082679Romanian
17.929914Tuscan
20.079638Sephardic_Jewish
20.718899Italian_Jewish
21.992344Turkish
22.304219Serbian
23.524725North_Italian
23.562398Greek Cyprian

Greek Thessaly
2.5127641Greek Peloponnese
6.1457095Greek Macedonia
8.0667569Central_Greek
9.5172981Italian_Abruzzo
10.026509East_Sicilian
10.407014West_Sicilian
10.757359Bulgarian
11.678656Tuscan
12.778374Ashkenazi
13.342975Romanian
13.624076South_Italian
15.503445Greek Crete
16.866299North_Italian
17.193141Greek North Aegean
18.011944Greek South Aegean
18.363274Serbian
20.295477Italian_Jewish
20.381581Sephardic_Jewish
25.262623Moldavian
26.422493Portuguese


Greek Peloponnese
2.5127641Greek_Thessaly
6.1457095Greek Macedonia
8.0667569Central_Greek
9.5172981Italian_Abruzzo
9.6853674East_Sicilian
11.195892West_Sicilian
11.837013Bulgarian
12.534297Ashkenazi
13.443689South_Italian
13.625052Tuscan
14.623207Greek Crete
14.703603Romanian
16.194956Greek North Aegean
17.263012Greek South Aegean
19.377663North_Italian
20.056734Serbian
20.412746Sephardic_Jewish
20.558294Italian_Jewish
27.063834Moldavian
27.096955Greek Cyprian

Central Greek
3.0881361East_Sicilian
5.5946032South_Italian
6.2563875Italian_Abruzzo
7.1437455West_Sicilian
7.6535353Greek Crete
8.0667569Greek Peloponnese
8.2804502Greek Macedonia
8.7373293Ashkenazi
8.787492Greek_Thessaly
8.9926499Greek North Aegean
9.942106Greek South Aegean
13.085604Sephardic_Jewish
13.601688Italian_Jewish
13.852006Tuscan
18.848468Bulgarian
19.658788Greek Cyprian
21.071246North_Italian
21.452477Romanian
22.949991Turkish
23.219593Lebanese_Muslim
 
these are the Eurogenes K13 distances for Greek islanders


Greek Crete
3.1964625Greek South Aegean
4.6241953Greek North Aegean
6.8502081South_Italian
7.6118705East_Sicilian
7.6535353Central_Greek
9.0974245Ashkenazi
10.491076Sephardic_Jewish
11.095852Italian_Jewish
12.144415Greek Macedonia
12.367929Greek Cyprian
12.74341Italian_Abruzzo
13.162156West_Sicilian
14.623207Greek Peloponnese
15.503445Greek_Thessaly
16.700059Lebanese_Muslim
18.457716Syrian
19.29529Turkish
20.869163Tuscan
20.987865Samaritan
21.720829Jordanian


Greek North Aegean
4.0153518Greek South Aegean
4.6241953Greek Crete
7.9382839South_Italian
8.9926499Central_Greek
9.2839122East_Sicilian
11.249616Sephardic_Jewish
12.25008Ashkenazi
12.530686Greek Cyprian
12.709262Italian_Abruzzo
12.983577Greek Macedonia
13.10069Italian_Jewish
14.438998West_Sicilian
15.425115Lebanese_Muslim
16.149835Turkish
16.194956Greek Peloponnese
17.193141Greek_Thessaly
17.267342Syrian
21.236367Samaritan
21.462446Assyrian
21.479749Jordanian


Greek South Aegean
3.1964625Greek Crete
4.0153518Greek North Aegean
7.951069South_Italian
9.4980902East_Sicilian
9.7447796Sephardic_Jewish
9.9294494Greek Cyprian
9.942106Central_Greek
10.846836Ashkenazi
10.962277Italian_Jewish
14.213154Lebanese_Muslim
14.534935Greek Macedonia
14.556542Italian_Abruzzo
14.905727West_Sicilian
16.003886Syrian
17.263012Greek Peloponnese
18.011944Greek_Thessaly
18.113189Turkish
18.685004Samaritan
19.733544Jordanian
19.763439Lebanese_Christian


Greek Cyprian
8.2212455Lebanese_Muslim
9.9294494Greek South Aegean
10.0754Samaritan
10.503251Lebanese_Christian
11.031736Syrian
12.367929Greek Crete
12.530686Greek North Aegean
12.694763Lebanese_Druze
13.63385Sephardic_Jewish
14.32326Jordanian
14.671786Italian_Jewish
14.699813Palestinian
16.143823Kurdish_Jewish
16.528267Assyrian
16.849331South_Italian
17.942261Ashkenazi
18.820645East_Sicilian
19.658788Central_Greek
19.683886Turkish
22.236604Armenian
 
How Greeks have West Med? Is it about Latin influence during Roman Period?
 
I think pretty much every European gets west med
 
I think I speak for everyone: absolutely thrilling! :)

Can't think of a better tool than a Eurogenes calculator.
 
I've seen some useful results using the Eurogenes calculator, but, boy, are those labels misleading and confusing, aren't they? They've led all sorts of people to believe that "West_Med" or "East_Med" means exactly "came right from West Mediterranean" and "came right from the Mediterranean Middle East", and things like that. I think it's much less confusing if the analyses are done relying on more ancient and well defined proxies, especially because the "true" West or East Mediterranean are a huge mix of older admixtures with very clear commonalities and clines with other regions.
 
I've seen some useful results using the Eurogenes calculator, but, boy, are those labels misleading and confusing, aren't they? They've led all sorts of people to believe that "West_Med" or "East_Med" means exactly "came right from West Mediterranean" and "came right from the Mediterranean Middle East", and things like that. I think it's much less confusing if the analyses are done relying on more ancient and well defined proxies, especially because the "true" West or East Mediterranean are a huge mix of older admixtures with very clear commonalities and clines with other regions.

There are worse Eurogenes calculators, although this one is still pretty bad. As for the rest I completely agree. This nomenclature is ridiculous.

Use calculators based on ancient samples if you want to understand the differences between different European groups.

So, yes, I was being sarcastic in post number 9.
 
Cline meaning:
“ A gradation in one or more characteristics within a species or other taxon, especially between different populations”

Taxon (Taxonomy) meaning:
“concerned with the classification of things, especially organisms” :)
 
West Med = ENF European Neolithic Farmer.
Didn't they follow Levant-Turkey-Balkan route? Basicly origin is East Med.

What is actually East Med?

In Eupedia, there is just Med
 
Didn't they follow Levant-Turkey-Balkan route? Basicly origin is East Med.

What is actually East Med?

In Eupedia, there is just Med
Think of it this way...a Greek is basically a Mycenaean with additional Steppe and Middle Eastern like admixture, and in some cases, additional Slavic that came even later. The extra Steppe and middle eastern affected the balkans and Italy as well. This is just speculation and I could be wrong, we need actual samples to really conclude or refute this.
 
West Med (Origin: Early Neolitic Farmer from Levant)


View attachment 10069


This is East Med map.

1-They have invaded West-Med home. Which culture is it? What is the origin.

2-Both were same, but they became different in time. But time is very short of this kind thing.

3-What is main characteristic of East Med? Main differance with West Med - Red Sea and Caucasian?

View attachment 10070
 
Greek from Thessaly KIT: Z829678


Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Greek_Thessaly5.21
2Greek8.08
3Central_Greek8.35
4Ashkenazi8.85
5East_Sicilian9.13
6Italian_Abruzzo9.56
7West_Sicilian10.22
8South_Italian10.65
9Tuscan10.92
10Bulgarian12.35
11Italian_Jewish13.44
12Romanian13.91
13Algerian_Jewish14.96
14Sephardic_Jewish15.36
15North_Italian15.64
16Serbian16.53
17Libyan_Jewish18.3
18Tunisian_Jewish18.72
19Cyprian20.42
20Moldavian21.76

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 90.9% Greek_Thessaly + 9.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.43
2 87.7% Greek_Thessaly + 12.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.58
3 94.2% Greek_Thessaly + 5.8% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.61
4 84.4% Greek_Thessaly + 15.6% Italian_Jewish @ 4.66
5 86.5% Greek_Thessaly + 13.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.71
6 92.5% Greek_Thessaly + 7.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.72
7 92.6% Greek_Thessaly + 7.4% Palestinian @ 4.75
8 92.4% Greek_Thessaly + 7.6% Samaritan @ 4.76
9 89.9% Greek_Thessaly + 10.1% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.79
10 91.5% Greek_Thessaly + 8.5% Cyprian @ 4.87
11 93.6% Greek_Thessaly + 6.4% Jordanian @ 4.9
12 89.4% Greek_Thessaly + 10.6% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.91
13 94.8% Greek_Thessaly + 5.2% Egyptian @ 4.95
14 86.4% Greek_Thessaly + 13.6% South_Italian @ 4.99
15 94.2% Greek_Thessaly + 5.8% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.01
16 86.7% Greek_Thessaly + 13.3% West_Sicilian @ 5.03
17 95.6% Greek_Thessaly + 4.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.03
18 96.8% Greek_Thessaly + 3.2% Saudi @ 5.04
19 95.8% Greek_Thessaly + 4.2% Bedouin @ 5.06
20 96% Greek_Thessaly + 4% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.07
#PopulationPercent
1East_Med27.32
2West_Med16.76
3North_Sea15.49
4Atlantic11.3
5Baltic11.1
6West_Asian9.72
7Eastern_Euro5.16
8Red_Sea2.89
9Southeast_Asian0.25
 

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