Greeks form a genetic cline between the Balkans and the Eastern Mediterranean

[Georgewalley]

Every regions includes different individuals from each region. Used Eurogenes K13 to make an average for every region.

Personal observations:

There's a correlation between the Increase of East Mediterranean and the decrease of Baltic and North Atlantic. The East Mediterranean element seems to be the highest in every region although it gets balanced out by the Baltic and North Atlantic as the Cline moves from the Islands to the Mainland.
What sets apart the Mainland and the Islands are the Baltic and North Atlantic which is significantly lower on the Islands while the West Asian seems to increase significantly along the East Mediterranean.
The West Mediterranean seems to be a basic component which probably means it's an ancient link between every region.
The increase of Baltic probably suggest the Steppe gene-flow brought by Slavic speakers during the Early Middle Ages or even before when the first Slavic speakers appeared in the Balkans, but I think a good part of it is of recent (Vlach, Bulgarian) origin.
The North Atlantic might suggest Germanic or Celtic influence, but it can be also a Neolithic Farmer related component because the Iberian Neolithic farmers already had high amounts of it. (It peaks in modern Southern French and Basques)
Greeks from Macedonia are genetically indistinguishable from non Greek speaking Macedonians and other Minorities which suggest that it's population is Hellenized for the most Part. While Thessaly and Cypriots seem both outliers but show close links to the rest of Greek speaking regions.
Another Groups which worth to be mentioned are the Pontic or Pontic mixed individuals who make a good part of Northern Greece's population Some of them were included in the Macedonian academic samples but I left them out because they were genetic outliers and didn't represent the native genetic of the region to make it more accurate.

Greeks from Macedonia - closest to non Greek Macedonians, followed by Greeks from Thessaly, Bulgarians and Southern Romanians

22.18 East Mediterranean
21.94 Baltic
20.37 North Atlantic
19.28 West Mediterranean
11.90 West Asian
2.38 Red Sea
1%> Trace components

Greeks from Thessaly - Closest to Macedonian Greeks followed by Bulgarians, Romanians and then closest to Central Italians and Southern Greeks

24.53 East Mediterranean
20.64 West Mediterranean
20.56 North Atlantic
16.88 Baltic
11.97 West Asian
3.51 Red Sea
1%> Trace components

Greeks from Peloponnese - Closest to Italians from Abruzzo, followed by Northern Greeks, Sicilians, Bulgarians and Romanians.

27.08 East Mediterranean
20.35 West Mediterranean
18.28 North Atlantic
15.72 Baltic
13.38 West Asian
3.18 Red Sea
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from Laconia - Similar to Peloponnese with slightly less shift to Balkan populations

26.27 East Mediterranean
20.53 West Mediterranean
19.44 North Atlantic
14.26 West Asian
13.44 Baltic
4.21 Red Sea
0.93 East Asian
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from Crete - Closest to European Jews, Sicilians followed by Peloponnese Greeks, Central Italians and Greek Cypriots

33.60 East Mediterranean
20.59 West Mediterranean
17.95 West Asian
12.36 North Atlantic
8.69 Baltic
4.90 Red Sea
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from South Aegean - Closest to European Jews, Sicilians, Cypriots followed by Mainland Greeks, West Anatolian Turks and Central Italians

35.77 East Mediterranean
21.14 West Mediterranean
17.64 West Asian
11.79 North Atlantic
6.05 Red Sea
5.48 Baltic
0.94 South Asian
1%> Trace regions

Greek Cypriots - Closest to Greek Islanders, Coastal Levantines, Anatolian Turks followed by Italians and Mainland Greeks.

40.53 East Mediterranean
20.61 West Asian
19.36 West Mediterranean
7.65 Red Sea
7.51 North Atlantic
2.40 Baltic
0.60 North East African
1%> Trace regions

 

[Angela]

Every regions includes different individuals from each region. Used Eurogenes K13 to make an average for every region.

Personal observations:

There's a correlation between the Increase of East Mediterranean and the decrease of Baltic and North Atlantic. The East Mediterranean element seems to be the highest in every region although it gets balanced out by the Baltic and North Atlantic as the Cline moves from the Islands to the Mainland.
What sets apart the Mainland and the Islands are the Baltic and North Atlantic which is significantly lower on the Islands while the West Asian seems to increase significantly along the East Mediterranean.
The West Mediterranean seems to be a basic component which probably means it's an ancient link between every region.
The increase of Baltic probably suggest the Steppe gene-flow brought by Slavic speakers during the Early Middle Ages or even before when the first Slavic speakers appeared in the Balkans, but I think a good part of it is of recent (Vlach, Bulgarian) origin.
The North Atlantic might suggest Germanic or Celtic influence, but it can be also a Neolithic Farmer related component because the Iberian Neolithic farmers already had high amounts of it. (It peaks in modern Southern French and Basques)
Greeks from Macedonia are genetically indistinguishable from non Greek speaking Macedonians and other Minorities which suggest that it's population is Hellenized for the most Part. While Thessaly and Cypriots seem both outliers but show close links to the rest of Greek speaking regions.
Another Groups which worth to be mentioned are the Pontic or Pontic mixed individuals who make a good part of Northern Greece's population Some of them were included in the Macedonian academic samples but I left them out because they were genetic outliers and didn't represent the native genetic of the region to make it more accurate.

Greeks from Macedonia - closest to non Greek Macedonians, followed by Greeks from Thessaly, Bulgarians and Southern Romanians

22.18 East Mediterranean
21.94 Baltic
20.37 North Atlantic
19.28 West Mediterranean
11.90 West Asian
2.38 Red Sea
1%> Trace components

Greeks from Thessaly - Closest to Macedonian Greeks followed by Bulgarians, Romanians and then closest to Central Italians and Southern Greeks

24.53 East Mediterranean
20.64 West Mediterranean
20.56 North Atlantic
16.88 Baltic
11.97 West Asian
3.51 Red Sea
1%> Trace components

Greeks from Peloponnese - Closest to Italians from Abruzzo, followed by Northern Greeks, Sicilians, Bulgarians and Romanians.

27.08 East Mediterranean
20.35 West Mediterranean
18.28 North Atlantic
15.72 Baltic
13.38 West Asian
3.18 Red Sea
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from Laconia - Similar to Peloponnese with slightly less shift to Balkan populations

26.27 East Mediterranean
20.53 West Mediterranean
19.44 North Atlantic
14.26 West Asian
13.44 Baltic
4.21 Red Sea
0.93 East Asian
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from Crete - Closest to European Jews, Sicilians followed by Peloponnese Greeks, Central Italians and Greek Cypriots

33.60 East Mediterranean
20.59 West Mediterranean
17.95 West Asian
12.36 North Atlantic
8.69 Baltic
4.90 Red Sea
1%> Trace regions

Greeks from South Aegean - Closest to European Jews, Sicilians, Cypriots followed by Mainland Greeks, West Anatolian Turks and Central Italians

35.77 East Mediterranean
21.14 West Mediterranean
17.64 West Asian
11.79 North Atlantic
6.05 Red Sea
5.48 Baltic
0.94 South Asian
1%> Trace regions

Greek Cypriots - Closest to Greek Islanders, Coastal Levantines, Anatolian Turks followed by Italians and Mainland Greeks.

40.53 East Mediterranean
20.61 West Asian
19.36 West Mediterranean
7.65 Red Sea
7.51 North Atlantic
2.40 Baltic
0.60 North East African
1%> Trace regions

No one here is interested in the personal observations of some do doubt already banned poster based on data purloined from random people on the internet and then run through "calculators".

Been there, seen that.

What's the matter? Didn't Sikeliot like being mentioned today? Too bad.

You're not going to turn this into theapricity like you're doing at anthrogenica.

 

[Ownstyler]

Did you actually take the time and make up all those numbers?? I mean that's just so funny!

By the way, you're wrong about Greek Cypriots - they are the original Steppe people the ancestors of South Indians.
Sources: Dude, trust me.

 

[brick]

Is this based on your personal observations?

This is more than personal observations, these are the Eurogenes K13 distances.

Greek Macedonia
6.1457095	Greek Peloponnese
8.0398771	Greek_Thessaly
8.2804502	Central_Greek
10.401354	East_Sicilian
11.445137	Italian_Abruzzo
12.144415	Greek Crete
12.983577	Greek North Aegean
13.502875	South_Italian
13.565481	Ashkenazi
14.065022	Bulgarian
14.229701	West_Sicilian
14.534935	Greek South Aegean
17.082679	Romanian
17.929914	Tuscan
20.079638	Sephardic_Jewish
20.718899	Italian_Jewish
21.992344	Turkish
22.304219	Serbian
23.524725	North_Italian
23.562398	Greek Cyprian

Greek Thessaly
2.5127641	Greek Peloponnese
6.1457095	Greek Macedonia
8.0667569	Central_Greek
9.5172981	Italian_Abruzzo
10.026509	East_Sicilian
10.407014	West_Sicilian
10.757359	Bulgarian
11.678656	Tuscan
12.778374	Ashkenazi
13.342975	Romanian
13.624076	South_Italian
15.503445	Greek Crete
16.866299	North_Italian
17.193141	Greek North Aegean
18.011944	Greek South Aegean
18.363274	Serbian
20.295477	Italian_Jewish
20.381581	Sephardic_Jewish
25.262623	Moldavian
26.422493	Portuguese

Greek Peloponnese
2.5127641	Greek_Thessaly
6.1457095	Greek Macedonia
8.0667569	Central_Greek
9.5172981	Italian_Abruzzo
9.6853674	East_Sicilian
11.195892	West_Sicilian
11.837013	Bulgarian
12.534297	Ashkenazi
13.443689	South_Italian
13.625052	Tuscan
14.623207	Greek Crete
14.703603	Romanian
16.194956	Greek North Aegean
17.263012	Greek South Aegean
19.377663	North_Italian
20.056734	Serbian
20.412746	Sephardic_Jewish
20.558294	Italian_Jewish
27.063834	Moldavian
27.096955	Greek Cyprian

Central Greek
3.0881361	East_Sicilian
5.5946032	South_Italian
6.2563875	Italian_Abruzzo
7.1437455	West_Sicilian
7.6535353	Greek Crete
8.0667569	Greek Peloponnese
8.2804502	Greek Macedonia
8.7373293	Ashkenazi
8.787492	Greek_Thessaly
8.9926499	Greek North Aegean
9.942106	Greek South Aegean
13.085604	Sephardic_Jewish
13.601688	Italian_Jewish
13.852006	Tuscan
18.848468	Bulgarian
19.658788	Greek Cyprian
21.071246	North_Italian
21.452477	Romanian
22.949991	Turkish
23.219593	Lebanese_Muslim

Greek Crete
3.1964625	Greek South Aegean
4.6241953	Greek North Aegean
6.8502081	South_Italian
7.6118705	East_Sicilian
7.6535353	Central_Greek
9.0974245	Ashkenazi
10.491076	Sephardic_Jewish
11.095852	Italian_Jewish
12.144415	Greek Macedonia
12.367929	Greek Cyprian
12.74341	Italian_Abruzzo
13.162156	West_Sicilian
14.623207	Greek Peloponnese
15.503445	Greek_Thessaly
16.700059	Lebanese_Muslim
18.457716	Syrian
19.29529	Turkish
20.869163	Tuscan
20.987865	Samaritan
21.720829	Jordanian

Greek North Aegean
4.0153518	Greek South Aegean
4.6241953	Greek Crete
7.9382839	South_Italian
8.9926499	Central_Greek
9.2839122	East_Sicilian
11.249616	Sephardic_Jewish
12.25008	Ashkenazi
12.530686	Greek Cyprian
12.709262	Italian_Abruzzo
12.983577	Greek Macedonia
13.10069	Italian_Jewish
14.438998	West_Sicilian
15.425115	Lebanese_Muslim
16.149835	Turkish
16.194956	Greek Peloponnese
17.193141	Greek_Thessaly
17.267342	Syrian
21.236367	Samaritan
21.462446	Assyrian
21.479749	Jordanian

Greek South Aegean
3.1964625	Greek Crete
4.0153518	Greek North Aegean
7.951069	South_Italian
9.4980902	East_Sicilian
9.7447796	Sephardic_Jewish
9.9294494	Greek Cyprian
9.942106	Central_Greek
10.846836	Ashkenazi
10.962277	Italian_Jewish
14.213154	Lebanese_Muslim
14.534935	Greek Macedonia
14.556542	Italian_Abruzzo
14.905727	West_Sicilian
16.003886	Syrian
17.263012	Greek Peloponnese
18.011944	Greek_Thessaly
18.113189	Turkish
18.685004	Samaritan
19.733544	Jordanian
19.763439	Lebanese_Christian

Greek Cyprian
8.2212455	Lebanese_Muslim
9.9294494	Greek South Aegean
10.0754	Samaritan
10.503251	Lebanese_Christian
11.031736	Syrian
12.367929	Greek Crete
12.530686	Greek North Aegean
12.694763	Lebanese_Druze
13.63385	Sephardic_Jewish
14.32326	Jordanian
14.671786	Italian_Jewish
14.699813	Palestinian
16.143823	Kurdish_Jewish
16.528267	Assyrian
16.849331	South_Italian
17.942261	Ashkenazi
18.820645	East_Sicilian
19.658788	Central_Greek
19.683886	Turkish
22.236604	Armenian

 

[brick]

Is this based only on your personal observations?

This is more than personal observations, these are the Eurogenes K13 distances for Greek mainlanders.

Greek Macedonia
6.1457095	Greek Peloponnese
8.0398771	Greek_Thessaly
8.2804502	Central_Greek
10.401354	East_Sicilian
11.445137	Italian_Abruzzo
12.144415	Greek Crete
12.983577	Greek North Aegean
13.502875	South_Italian
13.565481	Ashkenazi
14.065022	Bulgarian
14.229701	West_Sicilian
14.534935	Greek South Aegean
17.082679	Romanian
17.929914	Tuscan
20.079638	Sephardic_Jewish
20.718899	Italian_Jewish
21.992344	Turkish
22.304219	Serbian
23.524725	North_Italian
23.562398	Greek Cyprian

Greek Thessaly
2.5127641	Greek Peloponnese
6.1457095	Greek Macedonia
8.0667569	Central_Greek
9.5172981	Italian_Abruzzo
10.026509	East_Sicilian
10.407014	West_Sicilian
10.757359	Bulgarian
11.678656	Tuscan
12.778374	Ashkenazi
13.342975	Romanian
13.624076	South_Italian
15.503445	Greek Crete
16.866299	North_Italian
17.193141	Greek North Aegean
18.011944	Greek South Aegean
18.363274	Serbian
20.295477	Italian_Jewish
20.381581	Sephardic_Jewish
25.262623	Moldavian
26.422493	Portuguese

Greek Peloponnese
2.5127641	Greek_Thessaly
6.1457095	Greek Macedonia
8.0667569	Central_Greek
9.5172981	Italian_Abruzzo
9.6853674	East_Sicilian
11.195892	West_Sicilian
11.837013	Bulgarian
12.534297	Ashkenazi
13.443689	South_Italian
13.625052	Tuscan
14.623207	Greek Crete
14.703603	Romanian
16.194956	Greek North Aegean
17.263012	Greek South Aegean
19.377663	North_Italian
20.056734	Serbian
20.412746	Sephardic_Jewish
20.558294	Italian_Jewish
27.063834	Moldavian
27.096955	Greek Cyprian

Central Greek
3.0881361	East_Sicilian
5.5946032	South_Italian
6.2563875	Italian_Abruzzo
7.1437455	West_Sicilian
7.6535353	Greek Crete
8.0667569	Greek Peloponnese
8.2804502	Greek Macedonia
8.7373293	Ashkenazi
8.787492	Greek_Thessaly
8.9926499	Greek North Aegean
9.942106	Greek South Aegean
13.085604	Sephardic_Jewish
13.601688	Italian_Jewish
13.852006	Tuscan
18.848468	Bulgarian
19.658788	Greek Cyprian
21.071246	North_Italian
21.452477	Romanian
22.949991	Turkish
23.219593	Lebanese_Muslim

 

[brick]

these are the Eurogenes K13 distances for Greek islanders

Greek Crete
3.1964625	Greek South Aegean
4.6241953	Greek North Aegean
6.8502081	South_Italian
7.6118705	East_Sicilian
7.6535353	Central_Greek
9.0974245	Ashkenazi
10.491076	Sephardic_Jewish
11.095852	Italian_Jewish
12.144415	Greek Macedonia
12.367929	Greek Cyprian
12.74341	Italian_Abruzzo
13.162156	West_Sicilian
14.623207	Greek Peloponnese
15.503445	Greek_Thessaly
16.700059	Lebanese_Muslim
18.457716	Syrian
19.29529	Turkish
20.869163	Tuscan
20.987865	Samaritan
21.720829	Jordanian

Greek North Aegean
4.0153518	Greek South Aegean
4.6241953	Greek Crete
7.9382839	South_Italian
8.9926499	Central_Greek
9.2839122	East_Sicilian
11.249616	Sephardic_Jewish
12.25008	Ashkenazi
12.530686	Greek Cyprian
12.709262	Italian_Abruzzo
12.983577	Greek Macedonia
13.10069	Italian_Jewish
14.438998	West_Sicilian
15.425115	Lebanese_Muslim
16.149835	Turkish
16.194956	Greek Peloponnese
17.193141	Greek_Thessaly
17.267342	Syrian
21.236367	Samaritan
21.462446	Assyrian
21.479749	Jordanian

Greek South Aegean
3.1964625	Greek Crete
4.0153518	Greek North Aegean
7.951069	South_Italian
9.4980902	East_Sicilian
9.7447796	Sephardic_Jewish
9.9294494	Greek Cyprian
9.942106	Central_Greek
10.846836	Ashkenazi
10.962277	Italian_Jewish
14.213154	Lebanese_Muslim
14.534935	Greek Macedonia
14.556542	Italian_Abruzzo
14.905727	West_Sicilian
16.003886	Syrian
17.263012	Greek Peloponnese
18.011944	Greek_Thessaly
18.113189	Turkish
18.685004	Samaritan
19.733544	Jordanian
19.763439	Lebanese_Christian

Greek Cyprian
8.2212455	Lebanese_Muslim
9.9294494	Greek South Aegean
10.0754	Samaritan
10.503251	Lebanese_Christian
11.031736	Syrian
12.367929	Greek Crete
12.530686	Greek North Aegean
12.694763	Lebanese_Druze
13.63385	Sephardic_Jewish
14.32326	Jordanian
14.671786	Italian_Jewish
14.699813	Palestinian
16.143823	Kurdish_Jewish
16.528267	Assyrian
16.849331	South_Italian
17.942261	Ashkenazi
18.820645	East_Sicilian
19.658788	Central_Greek
19.683886	Turkish
22.236604	Armenian

 

[Boreas]

How Greeks have West Med? Is it about Latin influence during Roman Period?

 

[brick]

How Greeks have West Med? Is it about Latin influence during Roman Period?

West Med = ENF European Neolithic Farmer.

 

[davef]

I think pretty much every European gets west med

 

[Angela]

I think I speak for everyone: absolutely thrilling!

Can't think of a better tool than a Eurogenes calculator.

 

[Ygorcs]

I've seen some useful results using the Eurogenes calculator, but, boy, are those labels misleading and confusing, aren't they? They've led all sorts of people to believe that "West_Med" or "East_Med" means exactly "came right from West Mediterranean" and "came right from the Mediterranean Middle East", and things like that. I think it's much less confusing if the analyses are done relying on more ancient and well defined proxies, especially because the "true" West or East Mediterranean are a huge mix of older admixtures with very clear commonalities and clines with other regions.

 

[Angela]

I've seen some useful results using the Eurogenes calculator, but, boy, are those labels misleading and confusing, aren't they? They've led all sorts of people to believe that "West_Med" or "East_Med" means exactly "came right from West Mediterranean" and "came right from the Mediterranean Middle East", and things like that. I think it's much less confusing if the analyses are done relying on more ancient and well defined proxies, especially because the "true" West or East Mediterranean are a huge mix of older admixtures with very clear commonalities and clines with other regions.

There are worse Eurogenes calculators, although this one is still pretty bad. As for the rest I completely agree. This nomenclature is ridiculous.

Use calculators based on ancient samples if you want to understand the differences between different European groups.

So, yes, I was being sarcastic in post number 9.

 

[Salento]

Cline meaning:
“ A gradation in one or more characteristics within a species or other taxon, especially between different populations”

Taxon (Taxonomy) meaning:
“concerned with the classification of things, especially organisms”

 

[Boreas]

West Med = ENF European Neolithic Farmer.

Didn't they follow Levant-Turkey-Balkan route? Basicly origin is East Med.

What is actually East Med?

In Eupedia, there is just Med

 

[davef]

Didn't they follow Levant-Turkey-Balkan route? Basicly origin is East Med.

What is actually East Med?

In Eupedia, there is just Med

Think of it this way...a Greek is basically a Mycenaean with additional Steppe and Middle Eastern like admixture, and in some cases, additional Slavic that came even later. The extra Steppe and middle eastern affected the balkans and Italy as well. This is just speculation and I could be wrong, we need actual samples to really conclude or refute this.

 

[Boreas]

West Med (Origin: Early Neolitic Farmer from Levant)


View attachment 10069


This is East Med map.

1-They have invaded West-Med home. Which culture is it? What is the origin.

2-Both were same, but they became different in time. But time is very short of this kind thing.

3-What is main characteristic of East Med? Main differance with West Med - Red Sea and Caucasian?

View attachment 10070

 

[Georgewalley]

Greek from Thessaly KIT: Z829678


Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Greek_Thessaly	5.21
2	Greek	8.08
3	Central_Greek	8.35
4	Ashkenazi	8.85
5	East_Sicilian	9.13
6	Italian_Abruzzo	9.56
7	West_Sicilian	10.22
8	South_Italian	10.65
9	Tuscan	10.92
10	Bulgarian	12.35
11	Italian_Jewish	13.44
12	Romanian	13.91
13	Algerian_Jewish	14.96
14	Sephardic_Jewish	15.36
15	North_Italian	15.64
16	Serbian	16.53
17	Libyan_Jewish	18.3
18	Tunisian_Jewish	18.72
19	Cyprian	20.42
20	Moldavian	21.76

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#		Primary Population (source)	Secondary Population (source)	Distance
1		90.9%	Greek_Thessaly	+	9.1%	Lebanese_Druze	@	4.43
2		87.7%	Greek_Thessaly	+	12.3%	Libyan_Jewish	@	4.58
3		94.2%	Greek_Thessaly	+	5.8%	Yemenite_Jewish	@	4.61
4		84.4%	Greek_Thessaly	+	15.6%	Italian_Jewish	@	4.66
5		86.5%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13.5%	Algerian_Jewish	@	4.71
6		92.5%	Greek_Thessaly	+	7.5%	Lebanese_Christian	@	4.72
7		92.6%	Greek_Thessaly	+	7.4%	Palestinian	@	4.75
8		92.4%	Greek_Thessaly	+	7.6%	Samaritan	@	4.76
9		89.9%	Greek_Thessaly	+	10.1%	Tunisian_Jewish	@	4.79
10		91.5%	Greek_Thessaly	+	8.5%	Cyprian	@	4.87
11		93.6%	Greek_Thessaly	+	6.4%	Jordanian	@	4.9
12		89.4%	Greek_Thessaly	+	10.6%	Sephardic_Jewish	@	4.91
13		94.8%	Greek_Thessaly	+	5.2%	Egyptian	@	4.95
14		86.4%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13.6%	South_Italian	@	4.99
15		94.2%	Greek_Thessaly	+	5.8%	Lebanese_Muslim	@	5.01
16		86.7%	Greek_Thessaly	+	13.3%	West_Sicilian	@	5.03
17		95.6%	Greek_Thessaly	+	4.4%	Kurdish_Jewish	@	5.03
18		96.8%	Greek_Thessaly	+	3.2%	Saudi	@	5.04
19		95.8%	Greek_Thessaly	+	4.2%	Bedouin	@	5.06
20		96%	Greek_Thessaly	+	4%	Iranian_Jewish	@	5.07

#	Population	Percent
1	East_Med	27.32
2	West_Med	16.76
3	North_Sea	15.49
4	Atlantic	11.3
5	Baltic	11.1
6	West_Asian	9.72
7	Eastern_Euro	5.16
8	Red_Sea	2.89
9	Southeast_Asian	0.25