adamo
Junior Member
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- Y-DNA haplogroup
- T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H
I have been conducting extensive research on haplogroup J2a and have found it to be linked to turkey, Lebanon, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, north-eastern Iran parts of northern Syria and Iraq, but most interestingly on the island of Crete , Cyprus, Rhodes and across south-central Italy. It is found much less frequently on mainland Greece. I have linked this haplogroup to mesopotamians, but most interestingly, I have linked the later spread of J2a to the Hittites of Hattusa. The reason that j2a (M410) primilary bypassed mainland Greece is due to the conflicts between ancient Greeks (Ahyiawa) or Achaeans, and the Hittites. In ancient sources at around the time of Troy ( Wilusa or also Taruisa) there where several superpowers of which the kings of these empires called themselves brothers due to the power and military achievements of their empires, they had much respect for one another even though theyoften came inoto conflict with each other. These where Assyria, Babylon (which at this time was heavily on the decline), Egypt, the Hittite kingdom and Ahyiawa, the Achaean Greeks of ancient Mycenae. At this time, the Achaeans where already setting up colonies such as Miletus (Milatos to the Greeks, milawanda to the Hittites) and Halicarnassus on the shores of western Anatolia, from where they looked eastwards towards the Hittite lands. These Mycenaean Greeks even convinced the lycians , who owned this region of south-western Anatolia where these Greeks set up, to abandon their Hittite roots and side with the Mycenaeans. The arzawa, dardanians of Wilusa (Troy) on the other hand, stood faithfully with the Hittites, as they had for over 500 or so years. Their unwillingness to change over to the greek side caused the Trojan war, and not the famous love affair of Ellen and Paris, or Alexandro's of Ilios. Troy was burned to the ground and the Greeks killed the Trojan/Hittite royal lineage in that area. This set about the fleeing of the Trojans of which legends such as Aeneas arrival in Italy are mentioned. They did not flee to Greece as these where they men that ousted them in the first place, they left Anatolia and set up in Italy. Some Lydians turning into etrurians follows the same lines as the latter story. Long after, some Greeks would set up in southern Italy (Magna Grecia), many of which had an ancient middle eastern substratum such as Ionians and even some of the Achaeans...although the Cretans, Cypriots and north-central Italians of Europe in particular, can more closely link themselves to such empires as the Hittites and their allied puppet-states such as dardanians of Troy, arzawa, lycians and Lydians, who all spoke the Luwian tongue and where once collectively referred to as the Leleges of Anatolia. Feel free to discuss this subject and emit other plausible and interesting theories and/or pieces of information. To me, the ever expanding Mycenaeans viewed the peninsular west-ANATOLIANS ( ancient Lydians, the later sea-faring tyrrhenians) as a threat and as competitors, even if some of these first Ionians and Achaeans where earlier pelasgian barbarians themselves, they where fully hellenized and brought into the greek sphere of cultural influence along with other Hellenic people's, creating the Hellenic people and being implemented into them upon anciently arriving in certain parts of Greece. In fact, to me, the Achaeans where pre-Dorian inhabitants of both Crete and mainland Greece that where pushed out/repositioned by the incoming Dorians, these Achaeans had originally arrived long ago from a fraction of south-western Anatolia to Greece and eventually, with the addition of other pelasgians (aeolians, Ionians) and Hellenic continental european people's , would eventually compete with their distant middle eastern relatives. Even though the Hittites spoke an indo-European language ( as Greeks, germanics and indo-Iranians also did, see the origins of India's Sanskrit language etc.) to me they have "forever" inhabited the lands of turkey/northern Syria as a sort of extension of Hatti people's and other ancient groups....they where bearers of J2 as where their ancient ancestors that first set up shop in the north/central Fertile Crescent areas of the Middle East, to me they where always set up there for many thousands of years, linked to ancient sites such as Chatal Hoyuk and Ugarit, or Arslan Tepe and Tarhuntassa or Sultan Tepe and Tarshish (Tarsus) etc. for example, lets take the ancient southern Anatolian city of Tarsus. It's original name was tarsus, derived from tarsa, which was its original name in the Hittite tongue. This was also derived from a Hittite god, Tarku. The city was even known for a time as Tarsisi....,this sounds oddly familiar to the ancient italian town of Asissi, in central Italy, not too far from where our Etruscans dominated. Coincidence, or is there possibly some ancient migratory link between the two? Another city, on the ancient eastern coast of Iberia, tartessos. This area was one of those rare Iberian areas that was not Celtic, and it is not well known who founded certain small colonies on the eastern Spanish coast. Was it Greeks? Probably not, probably was J2 sea-faring Phoenicians, that very very mildly, but visibly did, to a small degree, affect the genetic composition of Spain, adding in about 10% or so j2 on a national level with highs of 15-18% in small regions of Andalusia province....did maybe the name Iberia itself derive from these sea people's? Doubt it, but it may be a relatively valid example.....there was Tarquinia, in central Italy on the Tyrrhenian coast, founded as soon as the Etruscans descended from their boats. Hmmmm......Tarquinia, tarsus, Hittite god Tarqu/Tarku.....a link?? Maybe...tis just speculation as of now certainly. Iapetus, also known biblically as Japheth, had a daughter, Anchiale, who founded a city in her name not too far from tarsus. Japheth is linked to the Middle East , he is in the same family , literally, as Togarmah and Meschech , fathers of middle eastern Armenians and Georgians ( Meschech is today's meshketi also known as moschi I believe). Japheth/Iapetus although is also to me linked to Iapyx of Crete. Iapyx was either son of issus or Lycaon. If he was linked to Lycaon, this would automatically link him to lycaonia ( region of southern Anatolia). Lycaon IS though, 100% linked to both , as the father of daunus and peucetis, who left lycaonia ( to the east of Lukka lands a.k.a Lycia) to colonize apulia in southern Italy. So then probably Iapyx was brother of daunus and peucetis, fathers of the IAPYGIANS apulian civilization, so oftenly confused with Illyrian people's based on their name ( note that northern apulia near foggia has a total of 44% haplogroup J, the overwhelming majority of it being...you guessed, J2.). This would also link a different migration of Cretans, that originally came from Anatolia to being with, to certain southern Italians (EXCLUDING the later arrivals of Magna Grecia Greeks to Calabria etc, much later.) any links between the Middle East and Italy, Crete, parts of Greece? Well, other than all the historical sources, the 20% J2 on a national level (40% Crete), (30% Sicily) and the High j2 pockets in apulia ,Calabria, parts of campania, abbruzzo, Marche, and our well documented Etruscans, what do you think? Lets take the city of Pisa, for example. It is well-documented that pelasgians arrived there. There is also a Pisa on southern Greece I believe. So there you have it! The pisaens where ancient Greeks! False. Pisa is linked to Pelops he founded it and he was subsequently linked to anatolia, a Phrygian or Lydian by birth ( sometimes used as the same term/people's) he traveled to southern Greece and afterwards to Italy where he founded Pisa, etc. the Trojan/Anatolian race reigned supreme in certain regions of Italy, whereas danios and his egyptoid race ( danios was twin brother to Aegyptus) had much influence on mainland Greece and may have represented a very large fraction of the ancient Mycenaeans that so often challenged and fought with their Anatolian neighbours to the east.
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