Haplogroups of European kings and queens

What is the primary source of your information about the Stewart kings?

Maciamo wrote: "haplogroup can be deduced from the testing of a relative"

Where can I see the test results and name of the male relative of a king of Scotland or England whose Y-DNA was tested in order to deduce the haplogroup of the House of Stewart, Maciamo?

What is the primary source of your information about the Stewart kings?

The web page at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Stuart/default.aspx states that according to ftDNA's Deep Clade tests of several dukes, the House of Stewart belongs to Y-haplogroup R1b1a2a1a1b4 (R-L 21) (previously named R1b1b2a1b5). None of these Dukes' test results are shown.
 
doubts about Windsor's R1b

It is unlikely that a biological father of prince Albert was Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

Ernest was noted for his antipathy to women, and it was rumored at the time that his treasurer, a Jew, had relieved the Duke of the distressing duty of engendering an heir. There was no suggestion of alternate parentage, for it was only after the birth of her two sons, at an interval of fourteen months, that Duchess Louise felt that she had discharged her duty, and no longer had to content herself with an ersatz husband, whom many gallant gentlemen gladly replaced.

http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Kosher_Kings.html

If the above is true, Prince William is likely to have R1a haplotype (in case Duke Ernest's treasurer was an Ashkenazi Jew) or, alternatively, one of "semitic" haplotypes of Y-DNA (in case the treasurer was a Sephardi Jew).
 
Quoting a Nazi site?

al-kochol said:
It is unlikely that a biological father of prince Albert was Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/Kosher_Kings.html

If the above is true, Prince William is likely to have R1a haplotype (in case Duke Ernest's treasurer was an Ashkenazi Jew) or, alternatively, one of "semitic" haplotypes of Y-DNA (in case the treasurer was a Sephardi Jew).
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It would be nice if it were true IMHO, but no such luck.

duke-and-duchess-of-windsor-with-adolph-hitler.jpg


Maybe the point of that story was originally to embarrass the Duke of Windsor.

Was Albert the only son of Ernst of Saxe-Coberg-Gotha?

Anyway, Prince Philip Mountbatten who is William's grandfather tested, and he matches the House of Oldenberg and Czar Nicholas, as above.
 
What is interesting though is that Prince William and Harry's and their mother Diana's mtDNA ancestor "Eliza" was a native of Mumbai, but later her descendants pretended she was "Armenian" to make their ancestry more acceptable:
http://thepeerage.com/p41284.htm#i412832

http://extras.denverpost.com/books/chap150.htm

... her great-great grandmother Eliza Kewark was a dark-skinned native of Bombay who had lived, without benefit of matrimony, with her great-great-grandfather Theodore Forbes while he worked for the East India Company. Unsavory as the taint of illegitimacy was, even at that distance in time, it was nothing compared with the stigma of what was then known as "colored blood." Had it been generally known that Ruth and her children were part-Indian, they might never have made good marriages. Eliza's true race was therefore expunged from the family tree and she reemerged as an Armenian. This fiction was maintained even when Diana married the Prince of Wales.
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It would be interesting to test their mtDNA. If it turns out that they are part South Asian then it might result in some positive publicity nowadays for the British Monarchy. :laughing:
 
The Y-DNA haplogroup of the Capetians, Bourbons, and Braganças

All kings of France supposedly belonged to haplogroup G2a3 (Y-DNA).
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capetian_dynasty

All we know is that a few STRs from a bloody handkerchief and one two SNPs indicate that the blood on the handkerchief was from a man who was G2a3-something, possibly G2a3b1a-L140, although the haplotype is very unusual and doesn't match anyone we have now.

Dried blood from 220 years ago on some random object is not the same as actually testing the living descendants of a family.

The sources for the ancestry of Robert the Strong, Count of Paris, d. 866, the ancestor of the Capetians:
http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rober100.htm

I keep telling Willy and the rest that there are plenty of patrilineal Capetian descendants out there, including some "Miguelist" Bragança from Portugal. Many of the Kings of Europe over the centuries were Capetians. Almost all the Americas was ruled by three Capetian monarchs from 1714-1760.

There are hundreds of Capetian descendants, and many are legitimate yet not in the line of succession.

This is EU-pedia, but no one wants to test them?

I suggest we start with a Miguelist Bragança, and a Bourbon, who share a hypothetical common ancestor in Robert II King of France b. 975 and test them for Y-111 and a full SNP test. That will not only give us some answers about the unknown origins of Robert the Strong Count of Paris, but if they in fact match it would give us a very rough idea of what two divergent haplotypes look like at 111 STRs after 1000 years.

For all of you who insist that "G2a" was the "Origin of the Frankish Nobility":
http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rober100.htm

Much attention has been attracted by the account of Richer of Reims, writing in the 990's, who is the only early author to give a supposed name for the father of Robert. Richer states that Robert was of the knightly class and that Robert's father (literally, the paternal grandfather of king Eudes) was a German named Witichinus ["Hic patrem habuit ex equestri ordine Rotbertum; avum vero paternum, Witichinum advenam Germanem." Richer, i, 5, MGH SS 3: 570]. The name Widukind (Witichinus) is a name of Saxon origin, borne not only by the above historian, but also the name of the principal leader of the Saxons who fought against Charlemagne. Thus, in apparent support of Richer, we have the account of Aimoin of Fleury, writing just after 1000, who states that Robert was of Saxon origin ["... Rotbertus Andegavensis comes, Saxonici generis vir, ..." Aimoin, Miracula S. Benedicti, i, 1, MGH SS 9: 374]. Against a Saxon origin for Robert we have not only the early evidence mentioned above, but the specific evidence of Widukind, the historian of the Saxons, who was writing a generation before Richer and Aimoin, and who, as noted above, indicates nothing of a Saxon origin for Robert's dynasty. As was pointed out by Lot, it is also possible here that Aimoin's "Saxon" did not refer to ethnic origin, but just indicated that the geographical origin of the family was from Germany, ruled by a Saxon dynasty at the time that Aimoin was writing [Lot (1902), 432, n. 1; Werner (1997), 12].
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If this family is in fact G2a3*, then they are likely to be what Ray calls "G2a3b1a6 - DYS643=9".
The two closest matches would be from Heisterbach [Abbey] near Königswinter in North-Rhine-Westphalia Germany and Hilsenheim in the Bas-Rhin Department in Alsace France. These places are very close to where we'd expect Robert's ancestors to have come from in the most accepted theory:

  • What early evidence that exists for the place of origin of Robert le Fort has him coming from East Francia, or more specifically the region around Mainz, Worms, and Speier, and places him in a family of noble but not royal blood.
  • Meingaud, count of Wormsgau and Mayenfeld, who died in 892, appears in Regino of Prüm's annals as a nepos of king Eudes, son of Robert le Fort.
  • A Robert, son of count Robert, donated two manses in Mettenheim in Wormsgau with appurtenances to the monastery of Lorsch in 836×7. This Robert's father was evidently count in Wormsgau.
  • In 876, a count Meingaud of Wormsgau (probably not the same man who died in 892, but at the very least a relative) and his nepos Eudes (Voto) donated one manse in Mettenheim with appurtenances to Lorsch. This common connection to Mettenhem suggests that Meingaud was closely related to the Robert of 836×7.
  • Since the appearance of a Meingaud, relative of king Eudes son of Robert le Fort on one hand, compared to Robert, apparent relative of a Meingaud and his nepos Eudes on the other hand, is unlikely to be a coincidence, and since Robert son of Robert appears in precisely the area where we would expect to find Robert le Fort, the evidence points strongly to the conclusion that they were the same man.
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Maybe one Capetian descendant reading this page will volunteer to be tested?

Until someone tests some Capetians, it seems to me that this page in Eupedia has pretty much nothing to say about the DNA of the Kings and Queens of Europe. I could have guessed "R1b", "H" and "T2" in my sleep.
 
The Rurikids of Russia don't count as "European" Royalty?

I guess not. Neither do the Grand Dukes of Muscovy, who don't descend from Rurik:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mozhayski/teksty/ydna.html

The interesting thing is that apparently both Rurik and Gedeminas were Finns, not Slavs or Balts. Haplogroup N1c1-L548-L549-L550. It may or may not be that the Grand Princes of Moscow descend from the Piast Dynasty of Early Poland, but they are in a "Slavic" clade of R1a1a. (which?)

We've learned a lot from this study of the Rurikids - and not just about early Medieval European (perhaps not for this forum) history either. We finally have a set of Y haplotypes with a common ancestor who lived in the 9th century. These are not in macro-haplogroup R1*, so we now can get an idea of STR mutation rates in other parts of the Y tree.

All the "Europeans" here might want to consider doing that too.
 
For Lithuanians and also for Polish Gediminas and his dynasty is the most real royal! We don‘t have any others I am afraid...

Well yes, he was a pagan ruler, so he couldn‘t be given a right to a Christian crown by the Pope.

But Gediminas was a very wise ruler. The ideas of his letters written in XIV century could well read as a XXI century PR action:
„... letters Lübeck, Sund, Bremen, Magdeburg, Cologne and other cities, explaining that the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was very tolerant to the Christians, but remained pagan and did not accept Christianity only because of brutal Teutonic Knights. Gediminas invited knights, squires, merchants, doctors, smiths, wheelwrights, cobblers, skinners, millers, and others to come to the Grand Duchy and practice their trade and faith without any restrictions. The peasants were promised tax exemption for ten years. The merchants were also exempt from any tariffs or taxes.“
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_Gediminas
 
Here is a new ancient DNA study testing the Y-DNA and mtDNA of Swedish statesman Birger Jarl (1200-1266), founder of Stockholm and regent of Sweden, and his son Eric Birgersson, Duke of Småland. Birger Jarl was also the father of Valdemar, King of Sweden and Magnus III of Sweden. Both Birger Jarl and Eric Birgersson were found to belong to haplogroup I1. The mtDNA of Birger was H, while his children with Ingeborg Eriksdotter of Sweden were Z1a.

By extension of the lineages, we can presume the Y-DNA and mtDNA of the following people :

House of Bjälbo

Valdemar I of Sweden (1239–1302) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Magnus III of Sweden (1240-1290) => I1 (Y-DNA), Z1a (mtDNA)
Birger I of Sweden (1280-1321) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Valdemar, Duke of Finland (1280s-1318) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Magnus IV of Sweden (1316-1374) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Eric XII of Sweden (1339-1359) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Haakon VI of Sweden & Norway (1340-1380) => I1 (Y-DNA)
Olaf II of Denmark & Norway (1370-1387) => I1 (Y-DNA)

Going up the matrilineal line from Ingeborg Eriksdotter

Queen Richeza of Denmark => Z1a (mtDNA)
Sophia of Minsk, Queen consort of Denmark => Z1a (mtDNA)
Richeza of Poland, Queen of Sweden => Z1a (mtDNA)
Salomea of Berg => Z1a (mtDNA)
Adelaide of Mochental => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Ingeborg Eriksdotter

Benedict, Duke of Finland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Rikissa Birgersdotter of Sweden, Queen of Norway => Z1a (mtDNA)
Otto the Mild, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg => Z1a (mtDNA)
Magnus the Pious, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Sophia of Minsk

King Canute VI of Denmark (1163–1202) => Z1a (mtDNA)
King Valdemar II of Denmark (1170–1241) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Ingeborg of Denmark, Queen of France => Z1a (mtDNA)
Otto I, Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Richeza of Poland

Canute V of Denmark => Z1a (mtDNA)
Vladimir, Prince of Minsk => Z1a (mtDNA)

Going down the matrilineal line from Salomea of Berg

Bolesław IV the Curly (c. 1122-1173), Duke of Masovia, High Duke of Poland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Mieszko III the Old (c. 1125-1202), Duke of Greater Poland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Henry (1127/32-1166), Duke of Sandomierz => Z1a (mtDNA)
Casimir II the Just (1138-1194), Duke of Sandomierz from 1173, High Duke of Poland => Z1a (mtDNA)
Roman the Great, Grand Prince of Kiev => Z1a (mtDNA)
Otto II, Margrave of Brandenburg => Z1a (mtDNA)
 
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Very interesting topic, thank you for all the information provided. As i read it through, i discovered something interesting. The last russian czar's wife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alix_von_Hessen and i have almost similar mtDNA: 16111T, 16357C, 263G, 315.1C
Could someone help me please explain how we are related? Thank you.
 
balazo said:
Very interesting topic, thank you for all the information provided. As i read it through, i discovered something interesting. The last russian czar's wife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alix_von_Hessen and i have almost similar mtDNA: 16111T, 16357C, 263G, 315.1C
Could someone help me please explain how we are related? Thank you.
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The mutations you gave are only in the HVR (hypervariable region) part of mtDNA, so it isn't complete enough to determine the exact deep subclade. Even two individuals who share exactly the same deep subclade may not be related to each other within genealogical times (not within 500 years), especially if it is a fairly common subclade. In this case, it is haplogroup H, the most common haplogroup in Europe, so it doesn't mean anything to share the same haplogroup.
 
al-kochol said:
doubts about Windsor's R1b

It is unlikely that a biological father of prince Albert was Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

If the above is true, Prince William is likely to have R1a haplotype (in case Duke Ernest's treasurer was an Ashkenazi Jew) or, alternatively, one of "semitic" haplotypes of Y-DNA (in case the treasurer was a Sephardi Jew).
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Dear al-kochol,

Please check the facts.

The Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Windsors or their relatives have never been tested. It is Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, and his progeny, who are predicted to be R1b.

The Ashkenazi Jews belong to Middle Eastern haplogroups. Only the Ashkenazi Levites are 50% R1a. Levites make only 4% of Ashkenazi Jews.
 
Archaeogenetics said:
Prince Philip Mountbatten who is William's grandfather tested, and he matches the House of Oldenberg and Czar Nicholas
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Dear Ted,

Can you please point me to the source about Prince Philip's Y-DNA testing? I have desperately googled for it, but failed to find anything. I asked Maciamo for it, but didn't get any answer.
 
Archaeogenetics said:
the Grand Dukes of Muscovy, who don't descend from Rurik:

freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mozhayski/teksty/ydna.html

they are in a "Slavic" clade of R1a1a. (which?)
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Ted,

Those people that turned out R1a1a1g just suspect their descent from Dmitri Donskoy of Moscow based on family LEGEND, with NO documents, and strongly REJECTED by all major Nobility Assemblies.

These results say nothing about the Grand Princes of Moscow.
 
Nicolas Peucelle said:
It is a bit "sad" to imagine that a man like Peter The Great may have no descendants at all today? Except for illegitimate unknown children. (I admit I didn't check precisely into the details of the other official daughters he had.. but his personal Y-Chromosome lineage for sure was ending because of all his sons deaths before they had sons.).
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One of his sons (who was sentenced to death by him) actually had a son Peter II, and a daughter, who died teenagers.
 
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Gift of Isis. Welcome to Eupedia. :)
 
Very curious the Z1a MtDNA. ¿How common it really is between Swedish people and other Scandinavians?
 
I hope you don't mind, Maciamo, but I thought I'll add some more royalty of interest to that excellent list you've made.



Kings & Queens of England or Great Britain

Anne of Denmark (1574-1619) => T2 (mtDNA)
Mary of Teck (1867-1953) => H (mtDNA)
Edward VIII (1894-1972) => H (mtDNA)
George VI (1895-1952) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Denmark

Sophie of Pomerania (1498–1568) => T2 (mtDNA)
Sophie of Mecklenburg-Güstrow (1557-1631) => T2 (mtDNA)
Caroline Matilda of Great Britain (1751-1775) => T2 (mtDNA)
Frederick VI (1768–1839) => T2 (mtDNA)
Christian VIII (1786–1848) => T2 (mtDNA)
Louise of Hesse-Kassel (1817-1898) => T2 (mtDNA)
Louise of Sweden (1851–1926) => H (mtDNA)
Christian X (1870-1947) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Norway

Maud of Wales (1869-1938) => T2 (mtDNA)
Haakon VII (1872-1957) => H (mtDNA)
Märtha of Sweden (1901-1954) => H (mtDNA)
Harald V (1937-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Sweden

Richeza of Denmark (1190–1220) => Z1a (mtDNA)
Christina of Holstein-Gottorp (1573-1625) => T2 (mtDNA)
Maria Eleonora of Brandenburg (1599-1655) => H (mtDNA)
Hedwig Eleonora of Holstein-Gottorp (1636-1715) => H (mtDNA)
Louise of the Netherlands (1828-1871) => H (mtDNA)
Sophia of Nassau (1836-1913) => H (mtDNA)
Gustav V (1858-1950) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Prussia

Sophia Charlotte of Hanover (1668-1705) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Netherlands

Emma of Waldeck and Pyrmont (1858-1934) => H (mtDNA)
Wilhelmina (1880-1962) => H (mtDNA)
Juliana (1909-2004) => H (mtDNA)
Beatrix (1938-) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of the Belgians

Astrid of Sweden (1905-1935) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of France

Anne of Austria (1601-1666) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Sardinia

Anne-Marie of Orléans (1669-1728) => H (mtDNA)

Kings & Queens of Portugal

Maria II (1819-1853) => H9 (mtDNA)
Pedro V (1837-1861) => H9 (mtDNA)

Emperors & Empress of Brazil

Pedro II (1825-1891) => H9 (mtDNA)

Tsars & Empress of Russia

Catherine the Great (1729-1796) => H (mtDNA)
Paul I (1754-1801) => H (mtDNA)
Alexandra Feodorovna (Charlotte of Prussia) (1798-1860) => H (mtDNA)
Maria Feodorovna (Dagmar of Denmark) (1847-1928) => T2 (mtDNA)

Kings of Romania

Ferdinand I (1865-1927) => H9 (mtDNA)
Anne of Bourbon-Parma (1923-) => H9 (mtDNA)
 
Hi,
I have 2 questions for this very interesting thread:
1. I see someone said that Mountbatten had tested, can you provide details on his Haplogroup or his Y-DNA?
2. What would be King George V of Gt Britain predicted Haplogroup or Y-DNA result - as he is from the Wettin line, which goes back to before 1000AD - this info would be useful.
Regards,
Brad
 
I find it interesting the the American Thomas jefferson is G2a .......We did he come from to go to USA
 
¿MtDna G2a? ¿Really?

I tell this because he was paternal T...
 
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